Ace Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I posted awhile back when I adopted my newest addition Maverick. He is just wonderful. Both his parents are ABCA registered and I have a copy of his pedigree with all the ABCA numbers in his pedigree, and I would really like to register him with ABCA. I have thought about going through his 'breeder' who turned the puppies over to the rescue because he didnt feel like spending the time and energy to sell them (they were all about 6 months old). I know his sister is ABCA registered. I am at a loss of how to do it through ABCA without his owner. I really want to avoid his owner requesting money in return for registering him for me. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Who is Maverick registered to now? The breeder? If that's the case, you'd need the breeder to sign him over to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 He isnt registered, he never was, only his sister was. At least thats what I have been told, is there anyway I could contact someone from ABCA and they could look up puppies registered under two specific dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Yes, I'm sure someone at the ABCA could look it up. I don't think you'll be able to actually get papers on him, though, without the breeder signing off on it. I know that probably looks a bit silly from your end ... someone would figure that if they know who the parents are, it's no big deal to issue the papers. And it probably isn't. But look at it from a different perspective. One of the purposes of the ABCA is to maintain the integrity of the pedigrees. That could not be done by issuing papers to people who say that have a dog from "X" male and "X" female ... without the breeder attesting to the fact that those are, in fact, the dogs that were bred that produced those pups. Does that make sense? It's a bit early in the morning... Jodi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 What Jodi says is right. The breeder is the one who has to register the entire litter; that is because the breeder has to have a signature from the owner of both sire and dam to verify that those two dogs were bred on such and such dates. Then the breeder has to fill out the form with how many males and females, and descriptions of each pup in the litter. When you say the sister was registered, is that a sister from the same litter? I'm not sure how only one pup from a litter would/could be registered... A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I was going to ask the same thing. Can a breeder register just one puppy out of a litter? So if the breeder said it was a litter of 1 and registered the litter... could they go back and register this dog from the same litter? Very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 When you say the sister was registered, is that a sister from the same litter? I'm not sure how only one pup from a litter would/could be registered... A That could happen, Anna. The breeder doesn't have to register the litter all at the same time, it just needs to be the breeder who registers them. You and Jodi are right about that, of course, and Jodi is dead right about the reason. So there's no reason to think the breeder would have told the registry there was only one pup in the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 One thing you might want to consider is why you would want registration papers on your dog and if there would be any worthwhile benefit to having them. We adopted a little bitch who did not have papers (back then, when buyers would get the paperwork from the breeder and register the individual pup themselves, this pup was an impulse buy and was cheaper "without registration") from her original buyer. Even though she was spayed, we wanted her to be registered. The breeder, whom I contacted, was pretty nasty about it and (of course, being less than reputable to begin with) all about money. Since I already had a copy of her registered sister's pedigree (so I had the information on her lineage), someone pointed out that since I was not breeding her and she was not trial material, why did I even need her to be registered? So, barring your dog being intact and being proven worthy of breeding, having registration papers is pretty much a non-issue - other than because you *want* them. Of course, they would also make it possible for you to dual-register with AKC or other organizations that accept/require registration papers for that purpose, but I'm hoping that's not your goal. Knowing your dog's background is helpful - having registration papers is not necessary except in the case of breeding, which I am hoping is not your goal, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyp Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I would think that at the very least , if one/some of the pups in a litter were registered, that the # of pups in the litter would have had to have been given with the first pup/pups registered , what keeps people from , say at a later date, get a dog they really like and add that to a previous litter? I think there should be some way to assure fraud from happening. Nancy Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 So would it be possible for the breeder to register one of the pups at one time and then register the others at a later date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 This was all very helpful thank you. I think I might just contact the breeder to see what comes of it. Mav shows a lot of potential on stock, I am hoping to get him started sometime soon, time is really an issue for me since I am in school full time and I work. His sister has been quite successful on stock so far. I am not sure how the litter registration worked or even if there were more puppies in the litter. I only know about him and his sister. His sister was sold and then returned, which is why she ended up in the rescue, I am not sure if he sold the other puppies and there is in fact a registration. From what you all said it seems the logical thing to do would be to contact his breeder. I have no intention of breeding Mav, but I have thought of doing herding with him. I guess I dont need his pedigree or registration, but its something I want, even if it does seem pointless to spend time and effort trying to get it. Thanks so much for all the responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 That's exactly how I felt about our Megan but, after a while, realized that as long as I knew her background, that's all I needed. Best wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Diane, I went back into the posts to see the history on Mav cause I'm a little confused. I found this: His rescue story - him and his siblings were raised in a horse stall for their whole life until Indiana Border Collie Rescue took them in and then my friend fostered all of them started to work with them. They had no interaction with humans before that. You said his sister is registered, and that she was bought and returned. Was Mav bought and returned also? If so, you'd be dealing with a whole different ball of wax as far as finding out a) if papers do, in fact, exist; and getting them transferred to you by the previous owner. If the previous owner is not able to be located, I am not sure what your options are, but you can contact the ABCA and find out. Jodi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 I would think that at the very least , if one/some of the pups in a litter were registered, that the # of pups in the litter would have had to have been given with the first pup/pups registered , what keeps people from , say at a later date, get a dog they really like and add that to a previous litter? I think there should be some way to assure fraud from happening. Nancy Colorado Well, if the breeder is dishonest, what would keep him from declaring to begin with that there were ten pups in the litter, to leave room for him to add some later on? A litter registration/individual registration system has some things to recommend it, but it can't assure that fraud doesn't happen. Ultimately, the system depends on the honesty of the breeder, and it's in the buyer's interest to make the effort to be sure s/he is buying from a breeder who cares enough about the breed and the integrity of the studbook not to do that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Yeah Maverick was raised in some pretty crappy conditions. He wasnt returned. Actually I am pretty sure all the pups from his litter were sold except for him, and his sister was returned. I am pretty sure his owner just didnt feel like taking care of them. Maverick was probably one of the shyest and hardest to socialize of the puppies that came in to the rescue. There were 6 total. Mav his sister and than 4 males from a different litter that were the same age. I am not sure if the owner was being dishonest or what. According to the rescue he just didnt feel like selling them, which is his reason. The males from the other litter adjusted pretty fast. Mav had a lot of problems, but he really is such a great dog. Especially considering the lack of socialization when he was a puppy. He is very well adjusted (so long as you arent male or a women that is tall and wearing dark/flamboyant clothes rofl). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyp Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Well, if the breeder is dishonest, what would keep him from declaring to begin with that there were ten pups in the litter, to leave room for him to add some later on? A litter registration/individual registration system has some things to recommend it, but it can't assure that fraud doesn't happen. Ultimately, the system depends on the honesty of the breeder, and it's in the buyer's interest to make the effort to be sure s/he is buying from a breeder who cares enough about the breed and the integrity of the studbook not to do that stuff. Eileen , You are 100% right. Just sad to hear about the dishonest ones. Nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 I've got papers on Mick, but I never actually transferred them into my name. According to the ABCA, he still belongs to the idiot who dumped him off for running around too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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