Manchas has recently became aggressive

[Humberto]

Hello,

 

We have a 2 year old male border collie named "Manchas" (spots). He is a very nice dog, we tried to educate him well, but lately he has become aggressive toward other medium sized or big dogs. We live in a house with a small backyard. We also have a female blue heeler/border collie mix that is very possessive and is always herding him.

 

We used to take him to the park everyday and let him loose. People knew him already, he learned to socialize with people as well as with other dogs. But, in the last weeks he has been picking fights with other dogs, and we cannot longer take him to the park. A few weeks ago, I suffered a cervical accident so I cannot take him everyday anymore and I have to wait for somebody else to take him. Otherwise I am risking hurting my neck.

 

We have tried to use a training collar. It is easier to control him, but still he attempts to pick fights.

[juliepoudrier]

Is he neutered?

 

J.

[Humberto]

Is he neutered?

 

J.

No, he is not.

[juliepoudrier]

A 2-year old intact male is the perfect age to start showing aggression toward other males. Neutering him could help ameliorate some of the aggressiveness, but may not solve the problem entirely. Still, if he's not a working dog then he doesn't need to remain intact, so I would take that as a first step and see if the resulting lower testosterone production didn't also reduce his aggressive tendencies. Unfortunately, if he continues to behave aggressively toward other dogs at the park, you will quickly become a persona non grata at best, and will become responsible for any damage he does to someone else's dog at worst.

 

For the time-being, he should not be allowed to run loose at the park, and he should be walked on some sort of collar or head collar that gives you (or whomever takes him) maximum control over him.

 

If there has been no incident (like being attacked by another dog himself) that has triggered this behavior, then I would assume that he is just being an aggressive/dominant male and start with the surgery option.

 

J.

[Humberto]

Thanks.

 

It sounds like a hard decision but I guess will need to seriously consider it. I will have a hard time convincing my grilfriend. We already neutered to female dog and my gf says she feels guilty.

[ejano]

The other dog working him is probably annoying the heck out of him so putting a stop to that behavior should help to put him at ease as well.

 

Though it should help a great deal, your problems may not end with the neutering. It's possible because the testosterone in his system makes him a target for other intact dogs, coupled with the fact that his wariness level is raised because he's being "worked" at home, he just plain is going to be out there first in the dog park to avoid being a victim. There is some literature that indicates that male dogs who have been neutered beyond sexual maturity and have learned aggressive behaviors tend to continue the same behaviors after neutering. If he has adopted this behavior as a self-protection plan rather than just a part of the natural order of things, be prepared to continue to work to modify his behavior.

 

I see this see saw behavior between my two boys who were both neutered at one year old. They are 18 months old now and more than ready for sheep but we just haven't gotten there yet. They are not aggressive or competitive with each other because I don't allow give it a chance to grow between them. They are more than ready to be put on sheep, but circumstances prevent us from doing so -- I've never hoped for time to pass more quickly....Come on October! Brodie starts his lessons and will hopefully learn the difference between a sheep and his brother!

 

Meanwhile, I constantly monitor their games to be sure that one isn't stalking the other because they do get annoyed if one tries to "work" the other....last spring it was Robin trying to "work" Brodie. Now that I've got him trained to behave, it's Brodie after Robin every time my back is turned. I want them to learn to be together without constant supervision but for that to work, Brodie needs to believe that SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED is always watching so I'm reduced to peering around porch posts to catch him in the act of stalking Robin.

 

I must say that Turid Rugaas' "On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals" has been a great help in deciphering what is going on between the two -- and in finding positive behaviiors to reinforce.

 

The other day Robin was trotting toward the porch, minding his own happy business. I'm on the porch, carding some wool. Up until that time, Brodie had been occupied with trying to nose his way under the pool fence to get to the cat but -- zing! fast moving object! Radar engages! Neck goes out -- tail goes down --eyes drill into Robin as Brodie darts toward him at a tangent. I growl "Brodie!" at the same time Robin stops dead looks at Brodie then drops his head and starts sniffing the ground. Brodie pauses, a bit bewildered because the game has changed...he looks like a sheep dog that has been enchanted into a statue, except that his ears are slowly drooping down like melting candle wax....then he drops his head and starts sniffing the ground too... They both sniff, sniff, sniff in circles for a few more seconds ,then without another word or look between them, the two trot off in their different directions without a bit of conflict between them. The cat sits inside the pool fence, licking her paws with a satisfied smile on her face.

 

I raced inside and thumbed through Turid Rugaas book, yup, there it was....page 27 - sniffing to calm the situation....She notes "Sniffing is one of those signals that is difficult for people to use." -- I can well imagine. As long as my dogs know how to apply it...that's all that matters.

 

Liz

[ejano]

It's not a hard decision at all. If your girlfriend needs to be convinced, take her to the local animal shelter for a tour. Be sure to ask them for the statistics on how many dogs are abandoned and put down each year in your area.

 

Sorry to be so tough.

 

Liz

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

It sounds like a hard decision but I guess will need to seriously consider it. I will have a hard time convincing my grilfriend. We already neutered to female dog and my gf says she feels guilty.

[njnovice]

I would get him neutered. That will probably curb at least some of the aggression. Also, try to keep your other dog from herding him.

 

Mick will ignore most other dogs and get along fine, but a pushy dog in his face or a dog herding him will result in Mick going after them.

[vickim]

I second Liz's post!

[bc4pack]

Many herding breeds do not do well at dog parks. Many/most have larger 'personal space bubbles' and do not appreciate other dogs getting 'in their face' and yep, a lot of this comes with maturity, mental as well as physical. It sure sounds like he doesn't appreciate other dogs getting in his space and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

How about finding one or two good playmates instead of exposing him to unknown and potentially rude dogs where he feels he has to defend himself? Find other outlets for that energy....

[Cody & Duchess]

Please , please, please goggle border collie rescue- then look at their websites. You will see incredible dogs in need of a home. If it wasn't for the tireless work of these rescue organizations many of those dogs would be dead. Go to a shelter - you will see dogs that just want to be loved and were cast off because they were not wanted anymore. Unless you have a proven working border collie and are correctly extending the line of a champion - your dog is not needed to add to the potential of more dogs in this world that are killed because mankind is selfish. We made the dog dependent on us - we have a personal responsibility to not make the over pet population worse. This aversion to s/n - I am sorry, I just don't get. Many pit owners do not want to s/n their dog because they fear it will make them less of a dog. Look at how many pits ( which can be a really sweet bred) are put to death a year - we should be ashamed. Sorry for the rant - but go look.......

[njnovice]

Please , please, please goggle border collie rescue- then look at their websites. You will see incredible dogs in need of a home. If it wasn't for the tireless work of these rescue organizations many of those dogs would be dead. Go to a shelter - you will see dogs that just want to be loved and were cast off because they were not wanted anymore. Unless you have a proven working border collie and are correctly extending the line of a champion - your dog is not needed to add to the potential of more dogs in this world that are killed because mankind is selfish. We made the dog dependent on us - we have a personal responsibility to not make the over pet population worse. This aversion to s/n - I am sorry, I just don't get. Many pit owners do not want to s/n their dog because they fear it will make them less of a dog. Look at how many pits ( which can be a really sweet bred) are put to death a year - we should be ashamed. Sorry for the rant - but go look.......

 

I think it's something like 1 million pit bulls alone are killed in shelters annually. Sinead came very close to being one of them. She's a big sweetie.

[Humberto]

Thanks everybody, let me introduce Manchas and Lady. Manchas smiles with his eyes, Lady is as always trying to byte him. It is like they are married, and she is always trying to keep him in check. Not different than humans in real life.

 

Some times we have seen that Manchas approaches a dog, and Lady start to bark. Then she bytes Manchas and Manchas starts fighting with the other dog. He never bytes Lady back.

 

But lately he has started to pick up fights on his own, even when Lady is not around.

[SecretBC]

Thanks.

 

It sounds like a hard decision but I guess will need to seriously consider it. I will have a hard time convincing my grilfriend. We already neutered to female dog and my gf says she feels guilty.

 

That's a new one. Usually it's the male of the household that takes neutering personally.

 

There is a high likelihood that your dog's problems will go away if he is neutered. It's not a guarantee, but it won't hurt. And if you don't have plans to breed him, why leave him intact? Neutered males are, in general, easier to care for in the long run. I'd get it done ASAP, personally.

 

I don't feel that intact dogs should even be allowed in dog parks. Many have rules against it.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Some times we have seen that Manchas approaches a dog, and Lady start to bark. Then she bytes Manchas and Manchas starts fighting with the other dog. He never bytes Lady back.

 

So, I am thinking that some of this behaviour may have started as a result of frustration on his part when Lady is being rude and bossy. If she's the more dominant one of the two and he defers to her, he won't likely snark back at her when she's biting him, but as a result of this frustration he turns on another dog. First, I would stop her from barking and biting him and not allow her to 'herd' him. End of story. When she starts doing something like this, redirect her attention to you or something more productive. These are two separate issues you'll have to work on individually though. I wouldn't walk the two in areas where these situations may arise. Keeping them both under threshold as much as possible is going to be key in your work with them. Work with her on the biting and barking and then work on his issues with other dogs when she's not around.

 

Oh, and he should be neutered. It will likely help at least a bit probably. So many dogs get surrendered to shelters or abandoned for behaivoural issues like this and they are almost always PTS because the shelters don't have the capacity/time/staff/knowledge to rehabilitate dogs.

 

Once he's neutered and you're ready to work on his dog/dog issues, check out books by Patricia McConnell and Pamela Dennison. Their books will have a wealth of information regarding reactive dogs.

[Gloria Atwater]

It sounds like a hard decision but I guess will need to seriously consider it. I will have a hard time convincing my grilfriend. We already neutered to female dog and my gf says she feels guilty.

 

Why would she feel guilty? Your female dog is now saved from twice a year bouts of having to be confined against unwanted breedings, constant supervision and worry about neighborhood strays throughout her cycle, three weeks (each time) of nervous if not neurotic behaviors, as well as spotting blood on your carpets, peeing frequently, and whining piteously. Now your little girl can live a calm, hormone-free life of happy dog days! (And if anyone told you that having a litter settles a bitch down, they're full of it.)

 

As for the boy, the same goes. If he's a pet, there is NO need for him to go through life worrying about who's dominant, getting neurotic and distracted at every tasty pee-smell, increasing in his aggression and dominance issues, and as you're seeing, creating social and behavioral problems for you. Not to mention the possibility of him escaping and going off up the neighborhood looking for a bitch in heat - and maybe getting hit by a car.

 

Neutering will HELP your dog and help you. It will take time for the hormones to pass out of his system, and you may still need to train the behaviors out of him once it's done, but he'll no longer be driven by the same impulses.

 

You've gotten a lot of good advice here, so I hope your girlfriend can be convinced. Good luck with your furry pal.

Cheers ~

 

Gloria

[juliepoudrier]

Humberto,

I think it would help your whole pack dynamic at home if you and your gf would also make a concerted effort to stop Lady from working Manchas, or any other dog. I can't stand that behavior and my own dogs take exception to it when visitor dogs come on our walks. Working another dog is annoying at best, and can end in a fight at worst. You're lucky that Manchas tolerates Lady's behavior, but he shouldn't have to. Although it certainly is possible that some part of his acting out at other dogs is a result of the regular harassment he gets from Lady IME most dogs lash out at their "tormenter" (the dog working them) and not at other dogs around. It's possible that Lady's behavior keeps Manchas in a constant state of arousal (not the sexual kind, but just a form of hyper-alertness about other dogs in general) and that, combined with his being intact, has helped to promote his aggression toward other dogs. So you need to take a multifaceted approach:

 

1. Neuter Manchas to decrease his testosterone levels and inhibit some of the aggressive male dog behaviors

2. Train Manchas to behave nicely around strange dogs (I would do this with the help of a trainer who is experienced with reactive dogs and understands the roots of such behavior and has a variety of tools to deal with that and is willing to tailor the training to your individual dog).

3. Teach Lady to leave Manchas alone. Unfortunately, this will likely be the *most difficult* part of your training efforts. Working another dog is an obsessive behavior, and you will have to be *absolutely consistent* at preventing it if you are to be successful at stopping it.

 

J.

[herdcentral]

Still, if he's not a working dog then he doesn't need to remain intact, so I would take that as a first step and see if the resulting lower testosterone production didn't also reduce his aggressive tendencies. J.

 

First of all I am a great beliver in sterilising my dogs. I think it is best for all concerned unless you are a dedicated breeder.

 

All my girls are done and my boys are destined for neutering at age 18 months.

 

I am building up a sheep flock and they are working dogs and I was wondering at this statement if there was any reason they should remain intact from a working point of view. I am planning to trial them in the future, but would never have any plans of breeding them.

They both have lovely temperaments and so far have no issues. These are my first boy dogs and are 12 months old.

 

Also to the OP ACDS and ACD mixes can be very determined and bossy at times. You need to have some rules for your bossy mix. My older but very non aggressive ACD will sometimes bark when other dogs try to interact with her pack which automatically gets the other dogs aroused. I just dont allow it, I will usually introduce her first to the other dogs and then everything is fine and there is no further problem. Defintely do not allow Lady to bite Manchas. If my ACDS start any of that nonsence with my other dogs they get firmly stopped.