Four Week Old Puppy

[Olivia]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just picked up my new foster. She is a 4 week old (best guess, could be a smidge younger) looks to be a border collie or close mix puppy. She and her 3 siblings were left in a box outside a shelter in Kentucky. They were covered in ticks, big wormy bellies and all bony. We (East TN Border Collie Rescue) took them and they spent 2 days at our vets. The staff quit counting at 200 ticks and they still have them on them. Frontline was applied and the ticks left are dead, just still dropping off. Gross. They also got fluids and B12 injections.

 

One little girl was in worse shape than the others and since I work at a vets she came to live with me. She arrived Saturday. Her gums were grey and she had no energy and very little appetite. She was also on antibiotics for an infected dew claw. Yesterday evening she developed a large, golf ball sized, lump on the side of her throat. I took her into work this morning and the lump was lanced. It was a huge abscess! So now she's getting warm packs on her neck 3-4 times a day along with her antibiotics.

 

Now for feeding... I tried baby cereal mixed with puppy formula and she didn't want that. I added a little chicken baby food and that was no better. Yesterday morning I finally found that she likes Innova puppy food soaked in water til it's a pasty consistency with some cereal mixed in. I've been feeding her about every 3-4 hours throughout the day with the last feeding being around 10 at night and the first at 8 in the morning. Now the question... How much should I be feeding her at a serving? I've been giving about 2-3 heaping tablespoons and she snarfs it up and wants more. I haven't seen her really full. If I put food towards her she immediately shoves her face in the dish and eats frantically. Her little belly is sooooo round. She looks like a tennis ball on toothpick legs! I don't want to over feed her but I do want to make sure she gets plenty of nutrition. Does this sound like an okay amount? Can you over feed a puppy this young?

 

Thanks!

[PSmitty]

Oh, goodness. Poor puppy. I have no clue, but luckily you work at a vet. Just wanted to send her some good thoughts and thank you for taking her in.

[Liz P]

Infection or not she really needs to be with her littermates. She is in the middle of a critical socialization period right now.

 

Ditch the baby cereal. It's empty calories. I never understood why people insist on feeding it. A 4 week old pup should be able to eat canned puppy food or soaked kibble. Innova is an excellent food, so go ahead and use that brand.

 

I start pups on a mix of canned puppy food and puppy milk replacer made into a gruel. If you feel more comfortable you can give that instead of just canned food.

 

She might have worms or she might be gorging herself, trying to catch up on her growth. Generally I feed pups that age the gruel every 4 hours plus I leave soaked kibble down all the time. You can overfeed a pup that insists it's been starved. You might need to go with smaller, more frequent feedings until she calms down and leave soaked kibble with her overnight. At 4 weeks old she can't regulate her blood glucose levels very well. If she doesn't have a dam to nurse off overnight she needs something to snack on.

[Olivia]

Thanks Liz,

 

I'm pretty sure that if I leave food down for her at night she's just going to eat it all as soon as she sees it. I'll set the alarm and get up and feed her during the night so she'll have a little something to help with the glucose levels. I do think she feels like she was starved so small, frequent feeding will be the method for now.

 

She has been dewormed and will be done again soon.

[Journey]

Ditto to the baby food. Get her on raw goats milk instead of the replacer too. You can soak the kibble in that instead of water. If you can find it get some raw lamb, ground up, and mix that with her kibble, cottage cheese, yogurt and a good probiotic are needed as well. I think you may be giving her a tad too little per feeding too. What does she weigh? As Liz said, she really needs her littermates, any chance of at least one more staying with her? I would also switch her to the Wellness Super Puppy Mix too....

[Olivia]

Thanks!

 

I'll see about finding some raw goat milk to mix in. I have some cottage cheese and yogurt to mix in. I'll start that in the morning. I completely forgot to weigh her today at the clinic. I'll do that tomorrow. I'm terrible guessing weights but I do know that she is way lighter than my 5 lb chihuahua. I can up the feedings easily.

 

I'll try to get a littermate over here. She is interacting very well with my dogs, especially my 10 year old girl who is awesome at mothering pups. She cleans them when coming in from outside, lets them snuggle with her, allows kneading and suckling, and teaches them how to properly play and interact. She is great at giving 'corrections' that are fair when they get rowdy.

 

A locally owned pet supply store that gives so much to us in both support for adoption days and products gave me a free 5 lb bag of the Innova. I think I'll go ahead and finish this bag and then switch to another puppy food.

[Liz P]

Karen, this isn't a normal healthy puppy. I would be very leery of feeding her any raw foods until her immune system has time to recover.

 

They do now make a puppy milk replacer from goats milk. It's a little more expensive but she would only need enough to mix with the puppy food.

 

ETA: Innova and Wellness are both good foods. She has the Innova so she may as well use it.

 

PS, the critical socialization is really best done by littermates. There really is no substitute. Singleton pups who miss this period are more likely to be dog aggressive, have poor dog manners and not have much bite inhibition.

[Olivia]

I will contact the other foster and see about getting a second pup here. I guess it was thought that she needed some time to recover from the anemia and everything without having to compete for food and such as she was very weak. I know litter socialization is critical but so is survival. The vet guessed she was about one day away from death when she was dropped off. She is basically eating, sleeping and toddling around a little now. Not really even trying to play.

[Journey]

One other thought too is get her on some Oatmeal - cooked! More later but if I can help just let me know.

[Journey]

Liz, I am aware she isn't healthy, a little raw lamb, mixed with the kibble should help. Not a lot, just a tad bit. Goats milk should be easy to come by in TN. I ended up getting it by the gallon but that will be too much for just one pup right now. Please tell me the antibiotic she's on is Doxy due to the ticks? Have you looked into a blood tonic for the anemia? Also, just because of her condition tell me no one is going to give her any vaccines for several months! As for the kibble, if it's a gift don't turn it down! I simply prefer the Wellness Just For Puppy and think it's a higher quality puppy kibble. What was she wormed with? And, the real big question - what's her name??

[Olivia]

Thanks for all the help! She is a precious little ball of cuteness! She's on doxy! Of all those ticks I'm sure some carried nasty stuff and who knows how long they were attached!

 

No vaccines for quite a while! She is safe and away from other dogs here and will remain so until she is completely recovered and can start her vaccination schedule.

 

She was dewormed with pyrantal and I have another dose to give next week. I didn't see any worms in her poop but I'm sure she had them!

 

And the big problem... no name!!! I can't come up with one that fits her! She responds to "puppy puppy puppy!" and would love a name of her own, just gotta find the right one.

 

Here is a picture of her at the shelter. You can see the ticks in corner of her eyes and between her little toes. They were everywhere!

 

And one from yesterday all cleaned up:

[WildFlower]

Oh, my is she precious! What a horrible thing for those poor pups to have to go through. The first picture is just so sad.

 

I wish you all the best in getting her healthy again.

 

As for names... What about June? It just popped in my head.

[ejano]

I'd vote for June

 

. (Myth & Legend / Classical Myth & Legend) (in Roman tradition) the queen of the Olympian gods Greek counterpart Hera

2. a woman of stately bearing and regal beauty

 

She is a beauty and has come a long way in a few days. FYIW, Brodie and Robin's breeder transitioned the pups from mother's milk to goat's milk/cottage cheese/cooked, chopped liver for their feedings and free fed puppy kibble. I realize a very sick puppy needs more tender care, and would definitely agree with supervised feedings until she gets used to the idea that food is freely available.

 

Any leads on who dropped them off? One would fear for the mother as well.

 

 

 

 

Oh, my is she precious! What a horrible thing for those poor pups to have to go through. The first picture is just so sad.

 

I wish you all the best in getting her healthy again.

 

As for names... What about June? It just popped in my head.

[urge to herd]

She's very pretty, and thank you so much for taking such good care of her. The first pic is pitiful, poor baby. The second pic, cleaned up and a couple days of food and meds in her - well, she might turn out to be quite the little princess!

 

Keep us posted, (and send lots of pics!) I don't have any experience to share, but am very glad she landed in such good hands.

 

Ruth

[juliepoudrier]

Good luck with her. She's adorable. I do second the idea that you get one of the other pups to go with her. You can feed them separately to avoid the little one not getting her share.

 

J.

[Liz P]

Karen, I am curious...

 

Why is oatmeal ok but not baby cereal?

 

Why raw goats milk and not pasteurized?

 

Why does it have to be raw lamb?

[KrisK]

What a darling little thing...I am sure she will thrive under your care. As for a name....how about Belle (French for pretty)....which she is now!!

[Lenajo]

Liz all of my vets have a lot of experience in raising weak, sick and orphaned pups at it's raw milk, raw meat all the way. They consider giving a puppy cooked, processed food to be far more stressful that quality meat and milk. The standard "recipe" is raw lamb meat with a little bit of liver, raw goats milk and yogurt, b vitamins, and free range eggs.

 

As for socialiation, you can't socialize a dead puppy, and if the littermates are too hard on a weak one that's where you will be. When the pup is a few days stronger the socialization will be more effective anyway. Nothing much is learned from being walked upon while you're anemic and weak.

 

Karen, this isn't a normal healthy puppy. I would be very leery of feeding her any raw foods until her immune system has time to recover.

 

They do now make a puppy milk replacer from goats milk. It's a little more expensive but she would only need enough to mix with the puppy food.

 

ETA: Innova and Wellness are both good foods. She has the Innova so she may as well use it.

 

PS, the critical socialization is really best done by littermates. There really is no substitute. Singleton pups who miss this period are more likely to be dog aggressive, have poor dog manners and not have much bite inhibition.

[Lenajo]

Not Karen, but raw milk and meat have natural enzymes and more available digestable nutrition than cooked. And thats per my vet...so take it with a grain of salt. She hasn't been to school in a few years. Come to think of it, none of my vets have seen school in a long, long time. Old fogies, dog love'm

 

I always prefer oatmeal because rice has the tendancy to make a lot of my dogs sick. And if it makes adults ill, then why would I feed it to a puppy?

 

 

 

Karen, I am curious...

 

Why is oatmeal ok but not baby cereal?

 

Why raw goats milk and not pasteurized?

 

Why does it have to be raw lamb?

[ShoresDog]

If there's any bacterial or viral contamination at all in the raw foods, I'd be quite worried about her immune system's ability to fight off a GI tract infection.

 

The before and after pictures are dramatic, poor baby. Thank you for being her angel.

[Lenajo]

If there's any bacterial or viral contamination at all in the raw foods, I'd be quite worried about her immune system's ability to fight off a GI tract infection.

 

The before and after pictures are dramatic, poor baby. Thank you for being her angel.

 

You mean contimination like they recall pet foods for? E. coli, Salmonella, stuff like that?

[juliepoudrier]

Dogs' GI systems are different than ours. They can eat all sorts of stuff that would have us puking our guts up or worse. I have heard raw goat's milk touted for its many health benefits, though I haven't done the research to see what's truth or fiction. I was raised on it for a number of years, and we kids drank a lot of it. Nobody got sick from it. I recently picked some up for my 17-y.o. cat, though she's having to share it with me and Willow.

 

I would think that raw lamb that I had processed for myself would be as safe as most kibble, if not safer, since I'd know exactly what went into the lamb before it was butchered.

 

And I say all this as a person who generally feeds kibble. I'm guessing that foods in a more natural state would be easier for a baby dog to digest.

 

J.

[Lenajo]

I think its a matter of weighing odds. A puppy needs the most available, easiest to digest nutrition you can give it first and foremost. Maybe you get a little bacteria, but that's a possibilitiy in all foods. Like JP, I have minimal concern about finding quality sources of meat that far exceed anything processed.

 

Goat milk's good for just about anything. I wish I could stand the taste myself LOL

[ejano]

It's a point, but if the raw milk or meat is from a local dairy, it's likely from a source that the OP knows...many dairies are cleaner than most people's kitchens, especially if they're licensed to sell milk to the organic folks...I've been in some that looked like NASA test labs, they were so clean. Our breeder made her own cottage cheese from her goat's milk and the liver she fed them was from her own beef cows, which ate her own hay. The only outside source in that food chain was the grain she fed the goats.

 

If there's any bacterial or viral contamination at all in the raw foods, I'd be quite worried about her immune system's ability to fight off a GI tract infection.

 

The before and after pictures are dramatic, poor baby. Thank you for being her angel.

[Olivia]

Thanks everyone again!

 

The little one has decided today that she isn't going to eat anything I offer. I've got a call into a local organic farmer that sells lamb, goat, beef and chicken asking for some goat milk and ground lamb. If she scorns kibble then I'll go for raw... as long as she eats something. She's trying to suckle anything she can get her mouth on so I may try to bottle feed her a little to get something into her system.

 

One of her siblings died this morning. Just couldn't hang on. Poor little mite. So we're down to 3 now and we're fighting to keep them here. Please keep your fingers crossed for these babies.

 

She is a pretty little thing. I'm liking the name Belle...