Feedback on Manners Minder?

[gcv-border]

I am considering purchasing a Manners Minder to help train running contacts in agility. The reason I am thinking about using a Manners Minder is because it is a remote reinforcement system.

 

I am trying to use the Sylvia Trckman technique for training running contacts, and Torque drives through the running contact nicely as long as I am waiting in front of the contact to reward him. Once I begin to move towards the side or slightly behind him (because I want him to continue to drive ahead of me off of the contact), he turns his head to focus on me because he is waiting for his treat (food or thrown toy). He tends to make more mistakes when he is not focused forward - not surprisingly.

 

I was thinking that a remote reinforcement system like the Manners Minder might help him keep driving forward off the contact. (Actually, another person would be helpful too, but that is not in the cards.)

 

Does anyone have experience with using the Manners Minder? Pros and cons. Can you use your own kibble or do you have to buy special kibble from the manufacturer?

 

I am also open to ideas as to how to keep Torque's attention focused forward when doing running contacts.

 

Jovi Larson

[Mariji]

I don't know about using those sorts of gadgets but what I would suggest if you aren't already is just rewarding forward. Throw the reward ahead of him before he looks at you. That to me should cause the dog to be looking ahead for its reward no matter where you are. Perhaps even add a jump or table after the contact so he has something to look forward to if he already knows how to do the contact and if it is all about just changing your position then anything that would keep him moving forward would help.

 

But if it was my dogs doing that I would just throw the food ahead and they would eventually be looking ahead for the food. After rewarding like that a couple of times he should click and realise it will always be out there. Perhaps eve a bait bag laid out ahead.

[gcv-border]

I don't know about using those sorts of gadgets but what I would suggest if you aren't already is just rewarding forward. Throw the reward ahead of him before he looks at you. That to me should cause the dog to be looking ahead for its reward no matter where you are. Perhaps even add a jump or table after the contact so he has something to look forward to if he already knows how to do the contact and if it is all about just changing your position then anything that would keep him moving forward would help.

 

But if it was my dogs doing that I would just throw the food ahead and they would eventually be looking ahead for the food. After rewarding like that a couple of times he should click and realise it will always be out there. Perhaps eve a bait bag laid out ahead.

 

I am stymied by the timing of throwing the treat/toy forward -- in that, he is so fast that if I throw it forward before he looks at me (he starts looking at me about 1/2 way over a 12 foot board), he gets so revved to get the treat/toy that he then springs forward without touching the rest of the board. So I end up treating him when he jumps. (Torque is very good at having his own 'private party'.)

 

I REALLY like the idea of a bait bag or similar. I can put it out there or throw it, but unless he strides through the yellow zone, he doesn't get his reward. I will also reinforce with a click. A little more work on my part, but I need to run more too. ;^)

 

Thanks,

Jovi

[rushdoggie]

what about simply using a target that you can fade over time? It can be as simple as a yogurt lid that you place far enough in front of the contact and he gets rewarded for hitting the target with a nose or a paw. Be sure you don't "bait" the target very much so that he understands he will get food/thrown toy/permission to take a tunnel after he hits the target.

 

It would be cheaper than a MM for sure!

[Fenella]

I didn't want to pay for a MM, but luckily, I won one in a flyball raffle a few weeks ago! My dogs are still getting used to it. So far, I like the idea that the treat isn't coming from me all the time. It has helped keep them from focusing, staring at my "treat hand." I can't speak to the agility part of it, but it has helped us with training them to go to their mat. I really like it...but don't know that I would pay the full price for one.

[Alaska]

Why are you using a tossed reward? Have you read Sylvia's FAQ? Dog should initially be driving to a stationary reward. Then, in her words:

 

Step 5

 

When you have 99% of running with a bowl/toy 5 meters after it, with no regard to your position, try to use a different way to focus a dog ahead. For Bu, it was a tunnel: first in the place of a bowl, then after one jump, then after two, three, four… - not necessary in a straight line anymore. With La, I kept using a bowl, but further and further away (after one jump, two, three, four… not necessary in a straight line anymore). If you have room, you can of course do this already when still running on a low plank: I started this step with Bi very early in the process and had no problems transferring from stationary reward to throwing a toy only after she has got the contact.

 

(emphasis added)

 

Also, Sylvia addresses your exact problem here:

 

Q: My dog only focuses ahead nicely if there is something there. If I have a toy in my hand to throw it later, he only watches the ball and misses all contacts.

 

A: You should do some more tricks training and teach that dog that you don't get a toy for staring in it, that the only way to get a reward is to take his eyes off it and do some thinking what to do to earn it.

 

If you haven't seen her new website, you should check it out. She'll actually answer questions in near real time for you. Incredible generosity.

[gcv-border]

Why are you using a tossed reward? Have you read Sylvia's FAQ? Dog should initially be driving to a stationary reward. Then, in her words:

 

Step 5

 

When you have 99% of running with a bowl/toy 5 meters after it, with no regard to your position, try to use a different way to focus a dog ahead. For Bu, it was a tunnel: first in the place of a bowl, then after one jump, then after two, three, four… - not necessary in a straight line anymore. With La, I kept using a bowl, but further and further away (after one jump, two, three, four… not necessary in a straight line anymore). If you have room, you can of course do this already when still running on a low plank: I started this step with Bi very early in the process and had no problems transferring from stationary reward to throwing a toy only after she has got the contact.

 

(emphasis added)

 

Also, Sylvia addresses your exact problem here:

 

Q: My dog only focuses ahead nicely if there is something there. If I have a toy in my hand to throw it later, he only watches the ball and misses all contacts.

 

A: You should do some more tricks training and teach that dog that you don't get a toy for staring in it, that the only way to get a reward is to take his eyes off it and do some thinking what to do to earn it.

 

If you haven't seen her new website, you should check it out. She'll actually answer questions in near real time for you. Incredible generosity.

 

THANK YOU everyone for your suggestions.

 

Alaska, I did not know that Sylvia Trckman had a new website. I will certainly check it out. Also -- I definitely need to read through any instructions more carefully and then, go back and read them again - and again. When I read them through the first time, it sounded so simple. I think it is, but as another trainer has said "It is simple, but it is not easy." So true.

 

I started using a tossed reward to focus forward - or so I thought. Also, I saw a Daisy Peel video where she was tossing the reward, and supposedly she was using the ST method. I will start again and this time use the methods of the master.

 

Jovi