Lesson Price in your area?

[The Good Shepherd]

I was just thinking why lessons very so much in my area? I can spent anywhere from 50 to 75 Dollars.

It would be interesting to know what the average (I know there really is no average ) ball-park figure is?

[Sue R]

The trainer where I used to take lessons charges either $40 or $45 per half hour now. My current trainer charges $40 per lesson (time is flexible). I have seen prices all over the place in different locations, anywhere from around $25 per hour and up. Top national-level trainers giving private lessons can be as high as $60 or more per half hour (and $120 or more) per hour.

 

Sometimes, it's a matter of "you get what you pay for" and, other times, it seems that some trainers charge what the market will bear. And, sometimes, a trainer can be a real bargain as is my current trainer.

[Laurae]

There is no average figure, because the price I will pay for lessons varies dramatically depending on whom I take lessons with and what they've accomplished...

[muttlycrew]

Where I train at (and I've just started), the pricing is done by the lesson (time varies).

 

$40....1 person, 1 dog

$50....1 person, 2 dogs

$60....2 people, 2 dogs

$90....3 people, 3 dogs (max)

 

I usually work with a friend or two so then we all pay $30 a person. One of my friend trains elsewhere and pays $25. I don't know if that's per lesson or for an hour/half hour. I'm happy with my results thus far and love my trainer, therefore I'm totally happy paying the $30 a lesson.

[The Good Shepherd]

Last lesson I took was $75 - having the dog in with the person for 15 minutes twice! I was pretty shocked! I could have done a 1/2 day clininc and still had lunch money left with a different person

[Laurae]

Last lesson I took was $75 - having the dog in with the person for 15 minutes twice! I was pretty shocked! I could have done a 1/2 day clininc and still had lunch money left with a different person

 

Again, it depends on the person giving the lessons. Was this trainer accomplished? Won any of the big trials? Multiple times? Does the trainer have a lot of experience training a lot of different types of border collies? Have their students been successful? If many of the answers to these questions are no, then I probably wouldn't be happy paying that either.

 

The time your dog was on stock may have depended on what the dog could handle. Lesson prices are unlikely to fluctuate if your dog couldn't handle being out there for a solid hour (and I'm not dissing you or your dog or your dog's physical condition--I'm talking about mental stress). I recently took a lesson with Angie Coker-Sells. It was very hot out. We worked a bit, then rested a bit and talked, then worked some more, then someone else came and had part of a lesson, then I finished my lesson with my dog. We certainly weren't working for 60 solid straight minutes. But it was well worth the price I paid--I learned a ton, and my dog had improved dramatically during that session. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, and I wish she (or the other top trainer I occasionally take lessons from) lived closer to me so that I could take these kinds of lessons much more often!

[denice]

Lessons vary from 45-80 an hour with local trainers here. At clinics with some of the top clinicians an hour lesson seems to range 100 - 120 an hour and about 70 for 1/2 hour. I Love clinics. You get 8 to 10 hours of learning from every handler and dog there that you can use at some point in your own training. Clinic prices vary as to how many working spots the clinician and host decide to offer but even at 150.00 a day and add in hotel and food it is still a better value I believe.

 

 

Denice

[juliepoudrier]

The trainer where I used to take lessons charges either $40 or $45 per half hour now. My current trainer charges $40 per lesson (time is flexible). <snip> it seems that some trainers charge what the market will bear....

 

There is no average figure, because the price I will pay for lessons varies dramatically depending on whom I take lessons with and what they've accomplished...

 

Important points have been made here. Some people (students) are used to paying a certain price range for lessons of any type and so are willing to pay similar for stockdog lessons, no matter who is giving those lessons ("what the market will bear," as Sue noted).

 

I don't quite see how any trainer can put an $XX per hour or half hour price on lessons simply because depending on the level of the dog, the weather, the sheep, etc., you might not work for that entire time. And in fact doing so can be counterproductive. As Sue's current trainer does, I charge a flat lesson fee, with no guaranteed amount of time attached. We will generally have two sessions on sheep at any given lesson, but the length of those sessions depends entirely on what we're working on and what the dog is doing.*** Usually I spend way more time than others might, but not all of that time is actually working a dog. A lot of training discussion goes on as well.

 

Like Laura, if I'm going to pay a trainer for lessons, I want that person to have accomplished *at least* what I would like to accomplish. So, if my goal is to trial in open and qualify a dog for the national finals, it makes no sense to pay for lessons from someone who has never gotten out of the novice classes. Similarly, if I am training up a green dog and the trainers I'm considering are people who are successful, but have gained that success with dogs they've bought that have been trained by others, then I would question the ability of those particular trainers to be able to help me train my green dog (because they have never actually done so themselves). Of course there exceptions to these basic rules (there are the rare few who understand the work and can teach it without actually going out and proving themselves on a regular basis, but unless you know enough about the particular culture of the venue in which you're taking lessons, you wouldn't know who those people are, hence the general rule).

 

***Consider this: Most real learning takes place early in a lesson while the mind is still fresh. Plugging away at something for 45 minutes isn't likely to be terribly productive. With a very young/green dog, working for more than 5-10 minutes at a time can actually be counterproductive. Quality of training time is way more important than quantity. When I was working my 11-month-old pup this morning, I probably worked him for a maximum of 15 minutes, if that. We actually got a very short drive, something I wouldn't even normally expect from a dog at his level of training. It would have made no sense to keep pushing for more driving or for anything else. We had an amazing session and did something new and difficult. Hard lessons learned have taught me that trying to push on past such successes usually results in blown minds and subsequent failures. If I had been working *with* someone and they had helped me start my dog driving in one 15-minute session (well that and pulling sheep off the fence and feeling confident enough to take a lie down between the sheep and the fence--two successes in one session), I would have considered it money well spent.

 

When thinking about the cost of lessons, consider whether you and your dog are making progress. If you are, then obviously someone is doing something right. You can always try a less costly trainer and then compare your progress between the two.

 

If there are no trainers in your area who inspire you, or who meet your criteria for accomplishment, then consider saving your weekly/monthly/whatever lesson money and applying it toward clinics with clinicians who have been reccommended to you or whose skills and accomplishments you admire. You will progress just as quickly--if not more so--with less-frequent excellent quality training than you will with more-frequent mediocre training.

 

J.

[PSmitty]

There's only one trainer around my area that is worth taking lessons from, IMO. I pay $45 an hour. I can work one dog, or all three during that hour, it's up to me.

[MaggieDog]

We paid $40/hr at both places I've gone to for lessons and I could choose whether to work one or both dogs. I worked both.

[Little Bo Boop]

I guess I have to say that we handlers in Texas are lucky ;-) in that if you are serious about the work (not a tire kicker) most everybody in the TSDA is willing to help/give lessons for nothing. Pretty amazing really (when you think about it) We have everybody from Emil to Allen Mills, Ron Burkey... willing to help a handler...and everybody in btwn. Maybe it's a Texas thing? I think I can count on one hand the number of folks that charge for 'lessons" . Maybe you should all move to Texas ;-) Just don't come in the summer! Dang it's hot right now!

 

Betty

[Sue R]

I guess I have to say that we handlers in Texas are lucky ;-) in that if you are serious about the work (not a tire kicker) most everybody in the TSDA is willing to help/give lessons for nothing. Pretty amazing really (when you think about it) We have everybody from Emil to Allen Mills, Ron Burkey... willing to help a handler...and everybody in btwn. Maybe it's a Texas thing? I think I can count on one hand the number of folks that charge for 'lessons" . Maybe you should all move to Texas ;-) Just don't come in the summer! Dang it's hot right now!

 

Betty

Gee, Boop, does everything have to be better in Texas? Sounds like paradise for a novice or in-need-of-training poor handler...

[juliepoudrier]

Maybe you should all move to Texas ;-) Just don't come in the summer! Dang it's hot right now!

 

Betty

Well, there is this job in Austin.... (and I can't imagine it could be much hotter than NC is right now. If I'm going to suffer in the extreme heat, I may as well be in Texas!).

 

FWIW, it's great that most folks in Texas are willing to help newbies out for free, but the way I look at it, my time (and effort, because if I'm going to teach someone, I'm going to try to do it right) is worth something, and the care of the sheep costs something, especially if I have to keep sheep for training (not to mention care for wear and tear on them, if you know what I mean). I don't plan to make a living or, doG forbid, get rich giving lessons, but I also wouldn't expect someone to teach me to ride for free, or teach me photography, or even give me music lessons out of the kindness of their hearts. I think the folks in Texas must be the exception to the rule.

[Pippin's person]

I pay between 25-40 per dog with Open handlers who've qualified for Nationals.

 

Wish I'd known about stock work and Border Collies during the many years I lived in Texas. I'd probably be a lot farther along...

 

ETA: the price above is for my "regular" lessons. I've paid more--up to around $80 for a lesson with a professional handler/trainer and that's for around 1/2 hour for one dog

[Journey]

In Fl there is a top notch handler that allows you to come out to work your dog. Bring a bag of feed (per dog you work), that's it. We had a great group, about 5 of us that got together every Sunday, all day. 4 fields to work in of various sizes, pens in 3 and a shedding ring in one. He'll go from field to field and help you as you work. He wants to help people and dogs succeed, he helps, you just have to be willing to try! We'd also all bring something for lunch and take a break, watch a video or just chat. When it got hot, well that's when we broke out the beer After a few weeks you can pretty much tell if a newbie was going to cut it or not, lot's of folks try, it's the stayers he really helps.

[njnovice]

When I was doing lessons with Mick (which I hope to be able to afford again at some point), I was paying $50/hr. Now he generally wouldn't work a whole hour, especially at first. Starting out, he'd need a decent amount of breaks, but once he got a bit older, he'd work for most of the lesson not giving up. He'd stop when I'd tell him to go get a drink of water. BTW, having a dog that will drink on command is awesome when you have one like Mick. He was built minus the "self-preservation" switch.

 

I was very happy with the training and I definitely think it was money well spent.

[bill virginia]

Lessons vary from 45-80 an hour with local trainers here. At clinics with some of the top clinicians an hour lesson seems to range 100 - 120 an hour and about 70 for 1/2 hour. I Love clinics. You get 8 to 10 hours of learning from every handler and dog there that you can use at some point in your own training. Clinic prices vary as to how many working spots the clinician and host decide to offer but even at 150.00 a day and add in hotel and food it is still a better value I believe.

Denice

 

very interesting discussion. i like Little bo boop, and journey, the way their folks cooperate with each other.

I have see Julie Poudrier and her dogs.....great......so i understand her position.

[WildFlower]

Cost for me is $40/dog. (He also sells "10 lesson passes" for a discount which ends up being $32/dog.) However, I usually split my lesson between my two dogs now at no additional charge. Sometimes I am in and out in one hour. Other times I am there for 3 hours. But as most people said, we work for 15 minutes and chat/discuss stuff. Then work the other dog and then chat again. Sometimes my trainer will also work his dog and explain things to me or let me try working one of his dogs.

 

I would just like to chime in with another vote for clinics. Well worth the money. A great experience and a chance to talk with other handlers at various stages of training and learn from watching them with the clinician. I just participated in my first clinic at the begining of June. (I audited one last summer.) I signed up for another one in the fall and am tring to get in another one this summer.

[Mark Billadeau]

I like to tell new students that stock work is a lot like taking classes in school. When you first start it's hard to concentrate for a full hour of lecture; the more classes you take the longer you can stay focused.

 

Most dogs tire mentally long before they are physically tired. My lessons are typically 2-3 session of the dog working but it's dependent upon the dog and sheep (and sometimes handler). The time the student and dog spend with me is often at least 1hr while the time on stock is typically short (5-15min a session).

 

Mark

[Little Bo Boop]

Gee, Boop, does everything have to be better in Texas? Sounds like paradise for a novice or in-need-of-training poor handler...

 

Yep :-)

[Little Bo Boop]

Well, there is this job in Austin.... (and I can't imagine it could be much hotter than NC is right now. If I'm going to suffer in the extreme heat, I may as well be in Texas!).

 

FWIW, it's great that most folks in Texas are willing to help newbies out for free, but the way I look at it, my time (and effort, because if I'm going to teach someone, I'm going to try to do it right) is worth something, and the care of the sheep costs something, especially if I have to keep sheep for training (not to mention care for wear and tear on them, if you know what I mean). I don't plan to make a living or, doG forbid, get rich giving lessons, but I also wouldn't expect someone to teach me to ride for free, or teach me photography, or even give me music lessons out of the kindness of their hearts. I think the folks in Texas must be the exception to the rule.

 

Oh I this you would like Austin :-) Pretty hip town, you should look into it.

 

I'm surely not begrudging your charging for lessons, you're exactly right, your time and the wear/tear on your stock etc...is def. worth $$$ I was just answering the OP's question. Not sure why it works out the way it does here...maybe because we try to encourage new handlers (not saying you all don't!) I know when I first started with the dogs I paid $35 for a lesson (I usually ended up staying out there for several hours) then after the guy saw that I was serious about it, he quit charging me, he even ended up loaning me my first sheep, no charge ;-) and for quite some time we would swap out sheep for fresh sheep evey month or so. I'm sure other handlers have done the same for other members...For all our bitching ;-) the TSDA is a pretty good bunch of folks :-)

[hsnrs]

Our trainer used to charge $30 if she worked my dogs; $40 if I was learning with the dogs. She also used to barter with me; fresh eggs and vegies in season for lessons. You might ask if trainer could barter with you also.

[sheeptramp]

Our trainer used to charge $30 if she worked my dogs; $40 if I was learning with the dogs. She also used to barter with me; fresh eggs and vegies in season for lessons. You might ask if trainer could barter with you also.

 

I used to swap lessons with a very well-known big big hat, for artwork , or farm-sitting , or helping with sheep-worming/vaccinating.

 

(I particularly endorse the farm-sitting option. It gives one and one's dog valuable SHEEP-TIME.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Accept no substitutes! You need sheep time to sort it out.

[juliepoudrier]

Hey Betty,

I knew you weren't bregrudging anything. Around here, the more experienced handlers get together and exchange ideas, etc., and I have had people out to try their dogs at no charge--it really just depends on the situation. But ultimately, it costs me money to keep sheep so it does help to get something back when I use them for lessons, which certainly isn't easy on the sheep. I assume that's the reasoning behind whoever it was who said the person had them bring out a bag of feed. And I have been known to let newbies use my trained dogs for lessons, which of course isn't conducive to keeping the dogs polished either. But it does sound like the folks of TSDA have a good thing going!

 

For me, lessons also involve proper sheep care, as I want to instill in students respect for and understanding of the livestock--something (especially the former) that seems to be lacking if what I've seen at trials is any indication (and this isn't limited to novice handlers, though I think it has become more prevalent as the sport of trialing has gained popularity among people who have no livestock experience; novices are the ones I am most able to influence and so I try to do so). (I should add that I also believe in the barter system, and have traded lessons for help with stuff around the farm that is difficult for me to do by myself, like hanging gates or other maintenance things that require someone stronger than me....)

 

J.