Re-motivating Brody

[alligande]

When Brody and I started agility he was a star, learned fast, was enthuastic and quickly became one of the best dogs in the class. 2 years on and he has lost interest, he drags around the ring, can't be bothered etc etc. At home I can still teach him new handling techniques very quickly and I can get him to have fun ( not as fast as he was but at least with a happy face) but in class it is obvious he does not want to be there. The last trial was a disaster, I do not know if he was sick or if he had stress diarehea but it was the first trial where he left with no ribbons.

I have had his thyroid tested, and in life other than agility he still his driven atheltic self.

Brody is not toy driven, thinks tug is a waste of time. He plays frisbee but will not play as a reward for agility.

Any suggestions to make the game fun again. I want to try and if he still does not want to play any more then I will let him quit.

[Blackdawgs]

I would have him checked by a vet, preferably one who is familiar with performance dogs. Even if the vet finds nothing wrong, give him the summer off. Absolutely no agility, but do other stuff with him. Then see if he wants to come back in the fall.

[PSmitty]

^^Ditto.

 

I retired Lilly from agility when it became obvious she wasn't having fun, and only did it for me. In the beginning, she caught on really fast and enjoyed classes, but I think my mistake was to rush to trial too soon. I was nervous and stressed at trials (which soon transferred to classes, too), and Lilly was super sensitive to what I was feeling. The pressure I was putting on her, without ever intending or realizing, was too much and took all the fun out of it for her. I will always regret that I couldn't undo the damage. I really tried to make it fun again and and re-motivate her, but it just didn't happen and she was happier when we stopped all together. I hope that Brody finds that he does like agility after all, but I'm sure that either way, you'll make the right decision and have fun no matter what the activity is.

 

ETA: I shared this because, once you've ruled out anything physical, I think you have to look at yourself next. Even if you *think* it's not anything you're doing, it just might be, without your even realizing it. It took me too long to admit this to myself. Then again, it may turn out that Brody just isn't into agility after all. Good luck!

[SecretBC]

There are absolutely dogs in this world that do not enjoy agility -- I see them at trials every weekend.

 

That said, you say that Brodie enjoyed agility when you first started. Can you pinpoint when things started to change? Was it when you started to trial? Did you do very well at Novice levels and then start to struggle when you moved up? Did this stress you out?

 

I only bring this up as a sample scenario. I know of numerous teams who were stars at Novice and moved straight into Open, where they then started to struggle for various reasons. The number one reason behind this is lack of proper foundation. Neither the dog nor handler really understands the building blocks of agility and when you hit Open, it's harder to muddle through and be successful.

 

The end result is often that the handler gets super flustered because s/he can't explain why they suddenly can't Q. The handler feels stress, then it transfers to the dog and the dog shuts down. The same thing can happen at class if the handler has super high expectations and wants to be the star student in class. I had one student who would get so upset if her dog made a mistake that she, herself, would shut down. What do you think happened to the dog? My student always complained about how demotivated her dog was at class and it's because she was constantly correcting the dog and overhandling it due to her concerns about "looking bad" in front of the group. I wasn't surprised when I heard that some of those motivation problems then started to creep up at home.

 

Some dogs do NOT handle corrections well. There are certain things that must be corrected for safety reasons (contact performances, for example), but if a dog goes around a jump, more often than not you are better off to KEEP GOING. Take note that the dog skipped the jump and understand why it happened -- either the handler cued wrong or the dog does not have proper obstacle focus yet. Do NOT drill, drill, drill your dog on anything. I've seen novice handlers "practice weaves" until their dogs want nothing to do with them.

 

I think group classes are BORING for a lot of dogs. I know that mine absolutely HATE sitting around to wait for their turn. If I am looking for instruction, I seek out private lessons. We can learn more in 15 minutes of a private lesson than an hour of a group class, usually. For an unmotivated dog, I would absolutely recommend this route.

 

Remember that agility is supposed to be fun -- for both of you!

[Mariji]

This seems to be coming up alot lately. I just went through the same thing with my 2 year old. It is all about understanding how your dog works. I have learnt about drive and where, when and how it climaxes. When she is at her peak and when she is not. How to deal with her when I don't need her. i.e. crating, for how long, warming up and how long we need to do that. It is all about learning really how your dog works deep down not just on the surface. What really motivates your dog? Sure they will work for treats but what is that one thing they go nuts for. I trained my girl to tug and thought that it would be motivating enough at trials and seemed to work until a comp not long ago and the first one whilst it was clear and a first place she was stressing everytime she hit the ground. What about, I can still not work out. She isn't a nervy dog at all and nothing much fazes her. But when I got out our roo steaks as a reward her next one was a %110 improvement. I have to take her out only at the last minute for a warmup otherwise her drive climaxes and she loses interest. I can't have her on the last run of the night, she needs to be fresh and if she sits in her crate all night she isn't as keen. She is the same, motivated at home but not so at trials. So I worked on building value into the obstacles at home, then at training and then by the time we got to trials she loves them. Each day is different and we take them as they come, if they are competely unmotivated simply don't run them. You don't want to rehearse that behaviour. And it may take a while but I think it is worth it to persevere. More games! Less agility training as such. It obviously needs to be more fun. I don't usually just give my dogs 1 treat they get a small handful for everything they do. In their eyes it makes it all much more worth it.

[rushdoggie]

I would have him checked by a vet, preferably one who is familiar with performance dogs. Even if the vet finds nothing wrong, give him the summer off. Absolutely no agility, but do other stuff with him. Then see if he wants to come back in the fall.

 

Listen to your dog: my star agility dog stopped having fun and everything "seemed" normal on examination...it was only 2 years later he started having serious spinal cord issues (toes with no proprioception, dragging tail). I believe that agility felt "wrong" to him with some subtle early neurological changes and it caused him to slow down and be stressed.

 

I don't mean to imply that theres something wrong with your dog, but he is trying to tell you something is wrong. Take a break and either it will resolve and he will return to loving the game, or you will find another game to play. There's a lot of them out there!

[alligande]

Thanks for the answers, I have elaborated on some of the points, I really do feel this is in Brodys head. He is an odd little dog, I have posted before about his interaction with our puppy and our late old lady. He is mildly reactive to dogs running in agility but we have learned to manage this thanks to control unleashed. We started agility for two reasons, I had wanted to play for a long time and am pretty serious about becoming good at the sport. ( I have a 10 month old who is keen and I am bringing along very slowly and on my own terms), the other reason was I wanted an activity that would use his brain, I got Brody when he was 3.5 and no one had ever made him think, he was a classic board collie, agility has been great for teaching him to think, 2 years on he is a very different dog.

 

I would have him checked by a vet, preferably one who is familiar with performance dogs. Even if the vet finds nothing wrong, give him the summer off. Absolutely no agility, but do other stuff with him. Then see if he wants to come back in the fall.

 

I live in a performance dog dark hole, the vet I go to ( who I like very much because they are very down to earth and do not peddle extras) could not understand why I wanted his thyroid tested. I gave him a month off due to work and my vacation and it was worse when we resumed. I would like to find a chiropractor to take him to. Brody has a very full life, with agility as only a tiny part. He is my husbands work companion, we take lots of off leash walks, lots of swimming. It is activity level in his none agility life that makes me question if it is physical as he is just as athletic as before, and jumps anything in front of him, making agility equipment look like kids stuff.

 

^^Ditto.

 

I retired Lilly from agility when it became obvious she wasn't having fun, and only did it for me. In the beginning, she caught on really fast and enjoyed classes, but I think my mistake was to rush to trial too soon. I was nervous and stressed at trials (which soon transferred to classes, too), and Lilly was super sensitive to what I was feeling. The pressure I was putting on her, without ever intending or realizing, was too much and took all the fun out of it for her. I will always regret that I couldn't undo the damage. I really tried to make it fun again and and re-motivate her, but it just didn't happen and she was happier when we stopped all together. I hope that Brody finds that he does like agility after all, but I'm sure that either way, you'll make the right decision and have fun no matter what the activity is.

 

I can fully relate to this: Brody did not enjoy our first few agility classes, it was in an indoor facility and he was stressed being there. He learned fast, but now that I know more I know that the the instructer was not very good and we did not get a very good foundation. Since then we have been taking classes in a horse barn and Brods thrived there for a long time. He is a sensitive dog and we did have problems with stress sniffing, but he came along in leaps and bounds. I was also really nervous at our first few trials, but we seemed to muddle along, our problems are more in class than at a trial. Our first couple of trials this year, where great. We both performed well

 

 

There are absolutely dogs in this world that do not enjoy agility -- I see them at trials every weekend.

 

That said, you say that Brodie enjoyed agility when you first started. Can you pinpoint when things started to change? Was it when you started to trial? Did you do very well at Novice levels and then start to struggle when you moved up? Did this stress you out?

 

Remember that agility is supposed to be fun -- for both of you!

 

I can't pinpoint it, but I have feeling it was when I changed classes. ie dogs. Last winter my instructor shuffled her classes around when a number of people dropped out due to the cold. It was mostly my class that dropped out, Brody and I were moved to the "advanced" class which is where we belonged, and the other dogs joined the beginner group. I think there is one dog he does not like, it is a very mouthy aussie who is also very physical during playtime when we break the equipment down. I don't have much choice about this, the other class is both full and the dogs are now even more annoying ( I have heard them)

I wish private lessons were an option, but due budget and lack of agility instructors within a reasonable distance, I am stuck with the current option. I have started to leave Brody in the truck, a place he is very content to hang. As long as the weather is nice this works. I play with him before our run and then after. Then I let him chill till his turn. This does seem to make him happier.

 

I have learned so much from agility, how to stay positive, even if things are going wrong making Brody feel like a star, my trainer always says our first agility dogs deserve medals for our bad handling when we start, which is so true.

 

I don't mean to imply that theres something wrong with your dog, but he is trying to tell you something is wrong. Take a break and either it will resolve and he will return to loving the game, or you will find another game to play. There's a lot of them out there!

If I decide that there is no improvement, and he quits it will be as a happy pet and companion, which he does very well. Flyball is not for Brody, his fragile psyche would not cope with that level of stimulation, and I am the worst frisbee thrower you will find, he is brilliant at the game. The other activities just don't interest me to be honest.

[herdcentral]

My girl was super fast at training but trotted around at trials. She loves running and chasing rabbits etc. I think it was all my fault, I put way too much pressure on her to early, coming off the back of my first agility dog - an older ACD with a long time bond with me, a total extrovert and an enormous drive to please me and an enormous love of agility.

 

I only had 2 years of pure pleasure and good success with my ACD before it was time to retire her. My new little BC had way to much pressure put on her from me. looking back. She was a much softer and less exuberant dog and I wanted her to be like my old trialing ACD.

 

These days I go out and just run with her, I dont lead out, I rev her up and go with her, I dont correct her and I praise her and make sure my body is relaxed. Training sequences are super short and highly rewarded.

 

She knows what to do so I just run and I find she has sped up and is starting to enjoy herself with no pressure and I try and smile all the way round, I think it changes my body language to her.

[Root Beer]

FWIW, this is what I suggest.

 

Due to a lot of things, Dean really lost his enthusiasm for Agility. Whenever we would step foot into an Agility ring, he immediately became very demotivated.

 

Last winter, with the support of our instructor, I stopped doing any and all Agility with him in the ring. When it was our turn at class, I took him into the ring and played with him. We played tug. We played ball. We played frisbee. I would take a few toys and let him choose the one he wanted to play with. All we did was play for a minute or two and then stop. No Agility - and that was tough for me because I wanted to do Agility!

 

When, and only when, I saw that he was staring to run into the ring with enthusiastic anticipation for going into the ring to play did I start - very gradually - to add Agility back into the picture. At first it was just having him do one tunnel in the midst of our play time. Even though he was enthusiastic about that tunnel, I asked for no more. Again, this was tough. When I saw that he enjoyed the tunnel, of course I wanted to keep having him do them. But I made myself stop at one, and we went back to playing.

 

We literally did this for two months. The most Agility I added into the game was a tunnel and maybe two easy jumps. Other than that we played un-Agility-related games.

 

This really made a big difference in his attitude. He really did gain his motivation back and he's enjoying the game. He's even to the point where he can handle some training challenges and that won't dampen his enthusiasm.

 

I don't know if something like that can work for you, but I thought I'd throw it out there. The key really was making myself take it slow. I know him well enough to know that if I had started having him do tunnel after tunnel too soon, he would have lost the motivation that it took quite a while to build.

 

And I had to kind of just forget about how motivated he was before. In a way that didn't even matter. When we started doing this, the fact was he was not motivated. Instead of trying to restore the motivation that he had before, I set out to build new motivation. That worked for us.

[Mariji]

That is fantastic Root Beer! In essence it is what I did with my girlie. Made it ultra fun, added more games and treats and did each obstacle on it own to build up that value. You explained just how I want too, but I am terrible at explaining thing, I would highly recommend trying to build that value back up slowly. It really does work.

[alligande]

Thanks for the suggestion Root beer, I am going to try that, maybe with a little variation as he loves to run over a series of straight jumps, and adores going over the seesaw and the dog walk, I think I will play a little frisbee, run a few easy jumps, play a little frisbee and the leave the ring. No pressure to get the handling right just fun with agility equipment.

[Root Beer]

No pressure to get the handling right just fun with agility equipment.

 

For us that was the key. I wanted him to learn that when we step into a ring together and he sees Agility equipment, we are going to play. When he really came to expect that, I changed it to: when we step into a ring together and he sees Agility equipment, we are going to play and the equipment will be part of the game. When he came to expect that, the door opened to start doing some true Agility again.

 

It's definitely worth a try. If nothing else, you get some quality game time with your dog for a while!

[alligande]

Jody has been odd while working; not sharp and not really giving me 100% effort. Our first thought was Lyme so we had the Snap test run. I even followed that negative result up with 1 week of doxy to see if there was a change. After a week there was no change. A week later I was working her and I still had this nagging feeling there was something physically wrong so she went in for a senior blood panel and exam. The panel came back negative so we had the blood tested with the tick panel. She came back marginally positive for Lyme. These Lyme tests look for antibodies produced by the dog against the infection; I guess Jody is running a low infection.

 

Mark

 

Mark posted this over in health and it is a perfect description of Brody, once I read this I started to review his behavior in all his activities and realized when I took him for a walk last week he just did not have his normal stamina ( He has not been spending a lot of time with me recently, he and my husband have been very busy at work and they have not had much time for walks with Rievaulx and I) once I brought it up my husband also agreed that he has just not had his normal energy level. So back to the vets we go, maybe there is a health issue.

[alligande]

Mystery solved, he does have lyme. Being a Border Collie he has just been driving through it and being stoic and it has taken to long for us to realize that he was not himself. He is on antibiotics so hopefully he will be himself soon.

[Blackdawgs]

Good job for being persistant and listening to your dog.

Unfortunately, it's very easy to fall into the trap of attempting to train away a physical problem.

Been there, done that, learned from that experience.

[Root Beer]

Hopefully Brody will be back to his old self in no time!

[alligande]

Brody went to his first agility class yesterday since starting antibiotics, and although it was hot he was a much happier dog. I am still planning on putting a lot of work into making this fun again, I suspect after finding agility hurts he is more reluctant to throw himself into the game.