Lewis Moon Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 We have nicknamed Cerb "Lebowski" for his laid back attitude. Don't get me wrong, we thank our lucky stars that he isn't a super high drive dog....we just wish we could turn a switch and he would have more drive to fetch, train, etc....then we could hit the switch again and he would just chill Any good tips on teaching/increasing drive w/o creating a monster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Welcome to my world! I often think that I have the lowest drive Border Collie on the planet and have worked with Secret since day 1 to try to make her care about SOMETHING. I keep plugging away at it and slowly, I see improvement. She'll be 10 months in two days (well, based on the birthday we gave her!) and she's come a long way since I got her in December. She now loves to chase rolling discs and brings them back 90% of the time. She has been doing great with balls or other round things that squeak and they get her pretty hyped up for about five minutes before she gets bored (it's an improvement....). She's doing really well with her tugging in the house, so this weekend I decided to try to entice her in a new environment while we were at a show -- she shocked me by going all gung-ho on the tuggy, so that's a HUGE improvement. One thing I've noticed is that my energy level plays a huge role in her attitude. I must be thoroughly invested in the game and giving it my all. I can't just absentmindedly chuck the tennis ball like I do with my older dog. If I'm not into it, neither is she, and she can tell if I'm faking. Stupid smart dogs... lol The more her toy drive builds in general game-play, the more I've been able to introduce it into SHORT agility drills. I cannot EVER drill, drill, drill. Then she shuts down. The key to increasing her drive has been to keep all things short so that she wants more. Then the next time we come out, she's really ready to go. I have been told by several people that if I want to turn her into a really drivey dog, then I should follow Susan Garrett's "Ruff Love" program. I got the book, but I just can't do it. It doesn't "fit" with my lifestyle -- and I'm just too lazy to do it. I do crate her while I work with the boys and that helps greatly (she gets bored watching) and I hand-feed some meals (slacking now...) --- but I couldn't commit to the whole program. I plan to get her on sheep in the coming months -- I have a couple of aquaintences who had "duds" until they put their dogs on sheep and then suddenly they had more drive than they knew what to do with. Overall, people tell me not to worry -- that these are late-maturing dogs and that they change a lot as they age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 We have nicknamed Cerb "Lebowski" for his laid back attitude. Don't get me wrong, we thank our lucky stars that he isn't a super high drive dog....we just wish we could turn a switch and he would have more drive to fetch, train, etc....then we could hit the switch again and he would just chill Any good tips on teaching/increasing drive w/o creating a monster? This might help- http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttlycrew Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 The biggest thing that has worked for my dogs past and present is stopping before they lose interest. Out of all of my dogs over the years, there has been one that has always been "ho hum" about toys and some food -- my golden. I tried very hard to create a nice drive (not a BC drive, but you know ) in her only to realize this is just not her. I love her to death and she is quite fast in agility and dock diving now that she "gets" the game. Before she understood the game, she really had no interest. She loves going to class and to trials, but when it comes to backyard stuff she could care less...so we don't do it. She actually has gotten faster with no training at home. I guess it makes going to class more of a novelty. On a side note, the weather plays a huge role for her. If it is too humid/hot, she rather lay in her kiddie pool. When it's cool out, she runs around and acts like a crazy dog. Why will she fly off the dock for a toy to retrieve it but on land she cares less? Who knows. Look forward to hearing other suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 The biggest thing that has worked for my dogs past and present is stopping before they lose interest. Out of all of my dogs over the years, there has been one that has always been "ho hum" about toys and some food -- my golden. I tried very hard to create a nice drive (not a BC drive, but you know ) in her only to realize this is just not her. I love her to death and she is quite fast in agility and dock diving now that she "gets" the game. Before she understood the game, she really had no interest. She loves going to class and to trials, but when it comes to backyard stuff she could care less...so we don't do it. She actually has gotten faster with no training at home. I guess it makes going to class more of a novelty. On a side note, the weather plays a huge role for her. If it is too humid/hot, she rather lay in her kiddie pool. When it's cool out, she runs around and acts like a crazy dog. Why will she fly off the dock for a toy to retrieve it but on land she cares less? Who knows. Look forward to hearing other suggestions. A lot of great suggestions so far! Now that you mention it, the heat really does seem to stem Cerb's appatite. Another thing that seems to help is to let him get his ya yas out with the other dogs before breaking out the ball/disc etc. He's young, amiable and easily distracted. Maybe he'll grow out of it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariji Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 This is exactly what went through with my oldest. We are just coming out of the tail end of it and she is nearly 2 so expect it to take a while I tried everything on the planet to get my dog more motivated, I wanted speed and for speed you need drive. I clicker trained her to tug on a toy, this took me months to get but now she will tug on whatever I present to her, and absolutely anywhere, and the value of the toy has increased enough to the point I can reward her in agility and it will get her revved up. So that's a big one. Food is demotivating in most cases. I can beg to differ sometimes with my puppy as she is a rocket no matter what but I have seen the effects of food on demotivating a performance. So I would start your toy play even if you have to go back to step one and click him for just looking at it. Then tuoching it, then putting his teeth on it, then picking it, then you taking the other end etc. Like I said it takes a while. Next big one is value of reward, you need something spectacular. I told my new Pre Agility Class if they bring dry dog biscuits they can sit and watch the class, sure it works at home but you want something even higher value than whats going on around you. I had to go out and buy Kangaroo Steaks and I have been using those at training and what a massive difference! What you need to do is just build the value of either working with you or whatever you are working on. An example, my oldest is obsessed with A Frames but had no drive for jumps and unless there was an A Frame somewhere along a line of jumps would amble around a course. When I tried to figure it out I realised there so SOOOO much value for the A Frame because I spend months and months building a spectacular contact performance, there is alot of reinforcement going into that! I put away my contact equipment and for a week only had out jumps I rewarded with a handful of roo everytime she took a jump and voila her value for jumps increased ten fold and now she speeds around the course. If it is just the basics of working with you he isn't catching onto, I would get a small bag of treats (good ones!) sit in a shut off room and do a behaviour he already knows or perhaps some free shaping if he can. Reward him with handfuls at a time, this will show him it is worth every second to stay with you and you should run out of treats fairly quickly making you stop training. This was a major one and will help a bit if you keep sessions even shorter and always finish with a game of some sort. With trying to motivate my dog I had to look at how I was managing her. I would take her out of her crate to warm up too early and causing her to climax mentally well before I needed her to. I started keeping her in her crate, training with her straight away and not picking the run at the end of the night. Using tonnes of treats/her fav toy, keeping it to 30sec (you'd be surprised what you can do in 30 sec) and her willingness to try improved. It was kept short, sharp and left her wanting to do more. It can take a while to find out really how you dog work, what motivates them, what demotivates them and how to manage it all. Sorry it's so long but I have been through all of it before. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Short, intense training sessions. Stick all the energy you can into these short sessions. Kenzi is going through a stage right now. She has drive. She has energy. But right now harnessing it is very hit or miss. Sometimes she's hot and sometimes she's a scatterbrained as all get out. She is about 18 m/o an I'm scaling way way back with what I'm trying with her. I'm trying to get in 4-6 short (1-2 minute) high energy training sessions with her each day. Also when you reward your dog, turn it into a game. Don't just give them a treat, move your hand back and forth a bit and let them chase it a couple seconds before giving them the treat - it will up their interest in the reward and in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted June 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Also when you reward your dog, turn it into a game. Don't just give them a treat, move your hand back and forth a bit and let them chase it a couple seconds before giving them the treat - it will up their interest in the reward and in you. Whoa....never thought of that. Sounds like it would make things more interesting for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Also when you reward your dog, turn it into a game. Don't just give them a treat, move your hand back and forth a bit and let them chase it a couple seconds before giving them the treat - it will up their interest in the reward and in you. My internet went out last night so I didn't have a chance to post these. But they illustrate really well how to work with food rewards to increase drive. Of course you start with really short sessions and really yummy treats!! Video 1 Video 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobcmom Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Check out a book called "Building Blocks for Performance" by Bobbi Anderson and Tracy Libby. The book talks about activities to train, build drive, and lay a good positive foundation for puppies, but most if not all of the information and exercises can be applies to adult dogs. These are play based activities that help build the dog’s interest and focus. There is a chapter and section on how to increase drive. I think you and your dog will find it interesting and fun. I’m not sure if you plan on doing any performance activities with your dog, but be carful with food and clicker training. These are great tools for the teaching stage of learning, but you need to understand how to progress beyond these tools to continue your dog’s learning and understand the training. It is about learning what the end result/goals is, what you need to do as a handler, and being able to communicate that to your dog. I use “yes” as a marking tool for correct behavior. For me, the clicker turned into an extra piece of stuff to manage when I’m trying to teach my dog’s what I want them to know. You can’t take a clicker into the ring but you can take a smile. Good luck. mobcmom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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