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Cattledog Finals

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Hello all,

 

I have some questions about the course and judging at this year's cattle finals. If someone could answer for me, I would appreciate it.

 

How far is the outrun? Is it in an arena?

 

The outrun and lift are judged, and worth 30 points. After that is it points per obstacle in the time alotted?

 

How many points, total, are available per obstacle, how many obstacles, and what are they?

 

Is there a fetch panel? Drive away panel? Cross Drive panel? and Pen?

 

How many yards is the drive?

 

At the pen, or final obstacle, the rules say this: " d. The handler is not restricted in number of attempts at the last obstacle(s), but all cattle must be in or through in order to get awarded the fifteen (15) points for the obstacle(s)."

So, am I correct that as long as time isn't called, the cattle can circle, pass, or pretty much do whatever before completing the final obstacle, but the dog will still receive a full 15 points whenever they finally do complete it?

 

Thanks everybody and cheers

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Hi Amelia,

As far as I know, the trial is in a big field. Points-and-time trials are just that: usually of you pass a particular plane of an obstacle you are considered to have missed and must continue on. For example, in the cattle trials I've run in if the cattle miss the cross drive panels high, you can't go back and try to make the panels, you just won't get any points for that obstacle and must move on to the next obstacle. I'm guessing the rules allow for attempts at the last obstacle (probably the pen) until time runs out, just as in a sheepdog trial.

 

I just got off the phone with someone there and if I had seen your post beforehand I would have asked. I'll be talking to him again tomorrow, though, and will be glad to get the answers to your questions, if someone else hasn't answered before then.

 

J.

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Hello all,

 

I have some questions about the course and judging at this year's cattle finals. If someone could answer for me, I would appreciate it.

 

How far is the outrun? Is it in an arena?

 

The outrun and lift are judged, and worth 30 points. After that is it points per obstacle in the time alotted?

 

How many points, total, are available per obstacle, how many obstacles, and what are they?

 

Is there a fetch panel? Drive away panel? Cross Drive panel? and Pen?

 

How many yards is the drive?

 

At the pen, or final obstacle, the rules say this: " d. The handler is not restricted in number of attempts at the last obstacle(s), but all cattle must be in or through in order to get awarded the fifteen (15) points for the obstacle(s)."

So, am I correct that as long as time isn't called, the cattle can circle, pass, or pretty much do whatever before completing the final obstacle, but the dog will still receive a full 15 points whenever they finally do complete it?

 

Thanks everybody and cheers

 

Amelia

 

I don't know the answers to all your questions but I do have some.

 

The scoring system is basically as you describe. The Outrun and Lift are judged and the rest is time and points. So a perfect score is probably more common under this system than under a purely judged system. It is still very impressive though and especially coming from the # 1 slot in the run order. Talk about posting a good score for every one to shoot at.

 

I do not know the precise length of the outrun but the finals field is NOT an arena.

 

I believe there are drive away panels and cross drive panels. The pen I believe (not sure) is a three sided pen and the cattle must all go in but there is no gate to close. (If I am wrong my cattle competing friends will undoubtedly correct me when they get back from Nebraska).

 

 

There generally are 15 points available per obstacle. Adding up the points available per obstacle ("a. The outrun will be judged (20 pts.) the lift will be judged (10 pts). b. Five (5) points will be awarded for each head of cattle that successfully negotiates the gather obstacle(s). c. There are fifteen points to be awarded at each of the two drive obstacles, five (5) points for each head of cattle that goes through the obstacles successfully. Once the cattle have gone through or around the drive obstacles, the handler must proceed on to the next obstacle(s).

 

d. The handler is not restricted in number of attempts at the last obstacle(s), but all cattle must be in or through in order to get awarded the fifteen (15) points for the obstacle(s).") suggests there must be fetch panels or some other points available to get to 240 with two judges. I assume these are fetch panels and/or something else but I do not know.

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Our own Anna Guthrie (stockdogranch) and Riddle got a 210 - whoot, whoot! That's the second highest score out of the first 33 (out of 37) runs. Tikkle didn't do at all as well, coming in with just a 104, but there's always another run.

 

Anna and her dogs are sponsored by two group sponsorships, a number of whose members post here on the boards.

 

And, thank you, Glenn, for the link.

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suggests there must be fetch panels or some other points available to get to 240 with two judges. I assume these are fetch panels and/or something else but I do not know.

 

Maybe a chute?

 

J.

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Our own Anna Guthrie (stockdogranch) and Riddle got a 210 - whoot, whoot! That's the second highest score out of the first 33 (out of 37) runs. Tikkle didn't do at all as well, coming in with just a 104, but there's always another run.

 

Anna and her dogs are sponsored by two group sponsorships, a number of whose members post here on the boards.

 

And, thank you, Glenn, for the link.

 

Woohoo! Go Anna... Go Anna... smiley-happy057.gif

(They held on to 2nd)

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Woohoo! Go Anna... Go Anna... smiley-happy057.gif

(They held on to 2nd)

Like the top score of the day, Riddle's score was perfect except that they timed out before making the pen.

 

Way to go!

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Maybe a chute?

 

J.

 

Based on the scores now posted for the day it was apparently a chute that was the additional obstacle. So good guess.

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Amelia,

To answer your questions, I asked my friend today what the course was like. He said the outrun was 250 yards or so, with the drive about the same. For the double lift final the outrun will be moved back to 400 yards like it was last year.

 

So it appears to be set up the same as a typical SDT course, with the addition of a chute before the pen. They're running three head, and you get 5 points per head for each obstacle made. As you can see from the scores listed for the first day, there are indeed fetch, drive, and crossdrive panels.

 

J.

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Wow, looks like Jimmy Walker had another good run with Mitch, he's gonna be hard to beat. I was hoping Red and Blaze would have had a better run ;-( but it looks like our Texans are doing ok ;-)

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Thanks Julie, I saw the scoring and figured it out. They give 15 points for going around the post, and that's where my totals were off.

 

They don't take their qualifying scores into the final, and the top 20 out of only 36 dogs (there was one scratch) qualifies. So, just about everybody qualifies for the final? Have I got that right?

 

Also, looking at Anna's 2 scores with Riddle, she had a 210 yesterday and a 55 today, but they show her total as 320? Shouldn't it be 265? What am I missing there? Seems like everybody elses total reflects the 2 run total except hers.

 

I never followed the cattle dog program much, but I'm interested now. Thanks for the info. Cheers

 

Well all they have to do is make it through to the finals, then it's up for anyone to grab!

 

J.

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Also, looking at Anna's 2 scores with Riddle, she had a 210 yesterday and a 55 today, but they show her total as 320? Shouldn't it be 265? What am I missing there? Seems like everybody elses total reflects the 2 run total except hers.

 

Just a guess, but maybe Anna's 2nd run got a 55 from each judge (total 110) and it was just a clerical error. Either way, I think she is safe to move on.

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Amelia,

 

Take the 55 twice, 2 judges I believe, and you have 110 with the 210 from yesterday = 320

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They don't take their qualifying scores into the final, and the top 20 out of only 36 dogs (there was one scratch) qualifies. So, just about everybody qualifies for the final? Have I got that right?

Well, no, not "just about everybody" qualifies. Slightly more than half qualify. Those in the bottom 16 surely wouldn't think that just about everybody qualified....

 

J.

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Julie: :rolleyes:

 

Well, no, not "just about everybody" qualifies. Slightly more than half qualify. Those in the bottom 16 surely wouldn't think that just about everybody qualified....

 

J.

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Is the same set of scores posted on the page several times, or am I just not reading it right? The scores toward the top of the page, just below the Nursery scores, are the most current, I assume?

 

Rooting for Tim Naasz (Bran's breeder) and "Zacy." This might be Zoey...I don't know that he has a dog named Zacy.

 

Go Tim!!!

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What's right below the nursery is both sets of scores. Open 1 breakdown is in pink, followed by Open 2 breakdown in grey. Then the 2nd open score, followed by the first open score, and then the combined score.

 

All the stuff below that would be the scores, etc., that were being posted as folks ran.

 

J.

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Megan,

I had it wrong. The top one under nursery is the 2nd open run, with pink and grey areas being the scores for Judges 1 & 2. Then the chart underneath that one is for open 1, with pink and grey for Judges 1 & 2. The chart for open 2 also includes the score from open 1 and the combined score in rank order.

 

J.

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Open handlers, what do you think of having the first rounds of Open Thursday & Friday, then Nursery on Saturday, then Open Finals on Sunday? Seems like if you're not running a dog in Nursery, it wouldn't be such a great thing to have to stick around the extra day. Most folks probably enjoy watching other dogs run, but HAVING to stay when it means an extra day away from work or farm might not be all that swell. Just wondering?

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Megan,

Are you addressing cattle people, sheep people, or both? The sheep finals are set up differently than the cattle finals. In sheep, you have the first round over several days, then the semifinal (top 30 something), then the final. In cattle, they have two runs of open and the combined scores determine who will get through to the final.

 

Sheep nursery is top combined score over two runs. Cattle nursery is combined score over two runs, with the top 10 going back for the final.

 

I may have the numbers slightly off, but since they are run differently, your question doesn't really apply to the sheep finals, unless they were restructured. If I had to guess, I'd say the cattle finals were set up differently because IME cattle runs can be much more draw dependent, and giving a person two goes gives them a fighting chance if they get a set in one draw that just wasn't workable (cattle don't flock like sheep, and it's not unusual for one calf to decide it's going in one direction while the others go in the opposite direction--there's no real draw for the one rogue calf back to the others, unlike with sheep).

 

===========================

 

On a note from the cattle finals field, I talked to someone who said it's taking six people on horseback to bring the calves out for nursery. I'd say they're had enough. Should make for an interesting final tomorrow if they're still feeling less than inclined to work.

 

J.

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