Grooming a BC

[airbear]

I used the Furminator on Lou ONCE and took a lot of his magnificent chest hair, which never came back. After that I only used it on Bear, whose aussie coat could have never been stripped. With the collies, I use an Oster undercoat rake. It does an excellent job of taking undercoat without stripping top coat. I use a little bit of Showsheen (diluted 1:1 with water) to keep the static down when I'm raking.

 

[bcnewe2]

oh...I bet that the showsheen would make it way better, the static is horrid! I end up with hair all over me. HEad to toe!

For us the furmanitor didn't even dent the undercoat just thinned the top coat. I'll just stick to our cheap undercoat rake. Had it for years and it's my favorite, I've tried other ones but this little cheapie is the bomb. It's been through the ringer and is all chewed up (I think a puppy got a hold of it) but it works great and lives on the coffee table with the nail trimmers!

[tegansmom23]

ok so heres the deal. I am a professional groomer. I have the RIGHT answer. Go to the groomers ask for a 7 strip lion tail trimmed 7 head and face trim ears. Trust me you and your bc will love it. I shave my 2 bc's and many more at work. We shave everything from pugs to huskies. labs goldens st benards aussies. its so so much better for the dog and you. Then in the winter ask for feet hocks pasterns thinning and neatening. There is nothing prettier than a shaved bc. They love when they get shaved. Plus its healthier for their skin to air out. Please try it once its a schock at first you might cry the first couple of days but then ypu see how happy he is and healthier he looks. I hope this helps.

[rushdoggie]

Or do like I did last night and sat on the floor with Ouzo standing in front of me while I plucked away at his incredibly shedding coat. Then he got pissy and I had to get him to lay down while I continued the brushing - I only have a rake brush, and it was scary the amount of almost WHITE fluff coming from his BLACK thighs and butt!!!

 

He doesn't have an undercoat on his back, but I think his pantaloons are thinsulated

 

He doesn't like brushing, but this spring it's ridiculous, the hair on his back legs and lower back is coming out in brownish clumps, like an old molted blanket I have the feeling there will be a few more evening sessions of plucking and raking that he won't enjoy but he won't have a saying in the matter

 

 

You might find the grooming spray (The Stuff, Ice on Ice) helps...it helps the loose hair slide out easier. I noticed a big difference in my hairy dogs.

 

I also go back over the places I rake with a fine tooth comb and end up removing some extra undercoat.

[Anda]

ok so heres the deal. I am a professional groomer. I have the RIGHT answer. Go to the groomers ask for a 7 strip lion tail trimmed 7 head and face trim ears. Trust me you and your bc will love it. I shave my 2 bc's and many more at work. We shave everything from pugs to huskies. labs goldens st benards aussies. its so so much better for the dog and you. Then in the winter ask for feet hocks pasterns thinning and neatening. There is nothing prettier than a shaved bc. They love when they get shaved. Plus its healthier for their skin to air out. Please try it once its a schock at first you might cry the first couple of days but then ypu see how happy he is and healthier he looks. I hope this helps.

 

Ummm... I am sorry, but hell no, I won't shave my BC. You might be a professional groomer, but that doesn't make it right

 

 

You might find the grooming spray (The Stuff, Ice on Ice) helps...it helps the loose hair slide out easier. I noticed a big difference in my hairy dogs.

 

I also go back over the places I rake with a fine tooth comb and end up removing some extra undercoat.

 

Thanks, I might try it. I bought a bottle of Mane & Tail shampoo and one of conditioner today at the grocery store - couldn't resist the buy one get one free deal, and after brushing him more with the rake brush, I applied a bit of conditioner on his dry coat - per instructions on the bottle. I think I can already feel a difference, his hair is softer (or maybe's just wishful thinking). Anyway, there was less that came out of his coat during today's session, but he was less patient than yesterday so I had to finish fast. Tomorrow is another day, Ouzo, and the brush is still waiting for you

 

And yes, I have a slicker brush to finish the job with, he's ok with that one, it's the rake that he doesn't like.

[airbear]

Ummm... I am sorry, but hell no, I won't shave my BC. You might be a professional groomer, but that doesn't make it right

Can I get an "Amen Sister"! There's no way, short of a tragic bubblegum incident, that I would shave my collies.

 

Tomorrow is another day, Ouzo, and the brush is still waiting for you

Run, Ouzo, run! Come hide with us!

[juliepoudrier]

Ummm... I am sorry, but hell no, I won't shave my BC. You might be a professional groomer, but that doesn't make it right

Same here. I have one dog who has been shaved, but that's only because he's a fear biter and spends a lot of time in water and so mats badly. He has to be muzzled to be shaved, but it does make life easier for both of us. But frankly, even with the lion's tail and a poofy head, he looks plain silly. He doesn't care, but there's no way I'd routinely shave my dogs. And if it were true that they'd all feel better that way, then doG would have made them all with short coats in the first place!

 

That said, I do shave bellies/insides of hind legs on the working dogs so they water can reach and evaporate from the large veins in that region more easily.

 

J.

[kristinavb]

Ummm... I am sorry, but hell no, I won't shave my BC. You might be a professional groomer, but that doesn't make it right

 

Ditto. If i were to shave him, with this Florida sunshine, the poor bastard would have skin cancer in a year. And yes, it can happen. My grandparents GSD died of skin cancer after a friend had recommended it to them to keep him cooler in the summer... And i wouldn't want to shave his cute but anyway. He looks like a poof ball, but i prefer a poofball to a naked dog any day!

 

We tried the furminator tonight. It got a bit out of his hind legs, but nothing on the long feathering he has at the end. He was very tolerant of it too. No squirming or jerking around. Good Border Collie

 

I'm thinking of taking him in and having them just neaten up his back end, that's where most of the matting and such is. And i can vouch for Manes & Tails. I've used that on all my dogs, myself, and my horses. Smells good too.

[alligande]

Hell would freeze over before I shaved my dogs... I tried it once when I was a new dog owner and I don't think My GSDx ever forgave me. I also made a discovery that she got a lot more ticks that year than any time after. When I used to go to a groomer she was very anti shaving.

[bcnewe2]

There's no way, short of a tragic bubblegum incident, that I would shave my collies

 

Does concrete caulk count?

Mick laid in concrete caulk once. By the time I figured it out his back leg was sticking to his belly. We laughed at him just for fun then I shaved one side of him.

We just made sure he stood where his good side showed.

 

I just cut Jazz's bum and back leg hair. It's not pretty but she's happy and the matts that were to bad to do anything about are gone. But she'd be mortified if I took her somewhere.

I took Mick to a groomer once. just to trim up his feet and feathers. It was free and I was there the whole time. He loved the attention but it was one of his most embarassing moments sitting in the blowdrying cage. I won't do that again unless I feel the need to humiliate him again.

[rushdoggie]

ok so heres the deal. I am a professional groomer. I have the RIGHT answer. Go to the groomers ask for a 7 strip lion tail trimmed 7 head and face trim ears. Trust me you and your bc will love it. I shave my 2 bc's and many more at work. We shave everything from pugs to huskies. labs goldens st benards aussies. its so so much better for the dog and you. Then in the winter ask for feet hocks pasterns thinning and neatening. There is nothing prettier than a shaved bc. They love when they get shaved. Plus its healthier for their skin to air out. Please try it once its a schock at first you might cry the first couple of days but then ypu see how happy he is and healthier he looks. I hope this helps.

 

 

Why on earth would you shave a Pug? they have short short coats! And huskies use their double coat to protect against overheating...I'd never shave a Husky!

 

I also would have to disagree on the 'prettier.' I much prefer a natural coated dog. I had a Border Collie (the epileptic one) who when she older was a bit incontinent when she slept and had a massive spay coat. After a while I clipped her down really short so it was easy to wash and dry her if she got pee on her. It kept her clean and healthy but cute? Not so much. The clipped coat was not shiny and smooth.

 

The ideal Border Collie groom should look like no groom has been done. If you thin hair or trim it should be done carefully so that no one glancing at him would guess he was trimmed. This is a natural dog...the coat is supposed to be protective and low maintenance.

[Alchemist]

I was actually warned away from a local groomer by a Border collie owner who had taken her dog in to get groomed right before her daughter's wedding. They'd just asked to get the dog bathed and brushed, and were horrified when they picked it up to find it had been shaved.

 

This thread has been very useful. Some people had suggested a Furminator was a great way to control shedding. Having read through these posts... I'll pass.

 

I've decided Duncan is like department stores: always well ahead of the actual seasons. He was shedding buckets in January (right before all the snow we had this winter). I was brushing him daily and still found myself going over the carpet each day to collect dog hair and the house still looked yucky. I finally took him in to get groomed, and all I've needed to do since then is vacuum once a week. (The carpet, not the dog). I do run a slicker brush through him occasionally but for all he's a rough-coat, he's been pretty low maintenance (except during shedding season).

[Anda]

I think some of the dog groomers would be a lot happier if they worked in a barber shop - there you get to shave everyone and no one complains, they end up with happy customers and good tips - LOL

 

And yes, in the begining of this thread, I was starting to think the Furminator might be a good idea, but for a long haired dog it became obvious it would mess up the outer coat - we'll just stick to the rake and slicker brushes.

 

Update - after I applied some Mane and Tail conditioner last evening on Ouzo's tail, back and butt, I am happy to report that this morning the affected areas are much softer and smoother. Therefore before I left for work I gave him another masage with conditioner, almost all over his coat. Hopefully I will have an incredibly soft, shiny and puffy dog when I get home

[geonni banner]

I guess I'm just lucky. My girl has a long-ish but flat coat and very little undercoat. I use the Furminator once in a while and it's never had an adverse effect on her coat. She doesn't require much grooming and she's nearly two and has had 3 baths in her life. Her hair is very shiny and no matter how gross and grubby she gets from playing in the mud, she dries off quickly and a two-minute once-over takes care of the dirt, foxtails, stickers or whatever. It's like she has a teflon coat...

[Anda]

I guess I'm just lucky. My girl has a long-ish but flat coat and very little undercoat. I use the Furminator once in a while and it's never had an adverse effect on her coat. She doesn't require much grooming and she's nearly two and has had 3 baths in her life. Her hair is very shiny and no matter how gross and grubby she gets from playing in the mud, she dries off quickly and a two-minute once-over takes care of the dirt, foxtails, stickers or whatever. It's like she has a teflon coat...

 

 

Yes, that's pretty much Ouzo's coat too. Except for stinky sticky mud what might fall off but the smell lingers - that's when baths are needed - otherwise he gets away with a lot of dirt that falls off - usually in my car on the way back from the park But right now he decided he needs to compete for the fluffiest and hair-blowing-eveywhere prize.

[Flamincomet]

ok so heres the deal. I am a professional groomer. I have the RIGHT answer. Go to the groomers ask for a 7 strip lion tail trimmed 7 head and face trim ears. Trust me you and your bc will love it. I shave my 2 bc's and many more at work. We shave everything from pugs to huskies. labs goldens st benards aussies. its so so much better for the dog and you. Then in the winter ask for feet hocks pasterns thinning and neatening. There is nothing prettier than a shaved bc. They love when they get shaved. Plus its healthier for their skin to air out. Please try it once its a schock at first you might cry the first couple of days but then ypu see how happy he is and healthier he looks. I hope this helps.

 

 

Gah.......

 

I'm a professional groomer too, but I don't expect everyone to just take my advice for that reason, especially since this is over the INTERNET, and I've never seen the dog's coat type in person!! Also, by the sounds of it, I would never recommend your shop if you were in my area, and routinely shaving pugs, huskies and labs!! I only shave down double coated breeds as a very last resort and I can't talk the owner out of it, or if the owner just switched to me and has been having their dog shaved for years already and the coat is ruined. If I can I try to at least talk them into a clip-on length, which won't get down into the undercoat. Shaving a coat like this can wreck the coat, and it will never be the same. I've seen huskies, samoyeds and goldens with huge bald scaly patches where the coat never grew back after being shaved. These type of coats are the perfect insulation and protection in all kinds of weather, if maintained! By shaving a coat like this down to basically the skin, you are removing the dogs protection from the sun, and they will actually be hotter than they would if you had properly groomed them. It would be the equivalent of a person who has worn a winter jacket, pants and ski mask their entire lives, taking them all off, and you shoving them out the door into the blistering sun stark naked! Not to mention, undercoat grows back much more quickly than the guard hairs, which causes the coat to grow back fuzzy, and also mat like hell in a lot of cases. It's the undercoat that is the problem and what needs to be removed, in order for the outer coat (guard hairs) to work properly.

 

I LOVE the mars coat king (or any of the rip offs) for this reason, I have never had another tool that works as amazingly as this does. I don't know the exact mechanics of how it works, but it does feel like it's pulling, so you need to be careful to not take very long strokes when using it on a dog with a lot of undercoat. At the shop I used to work (and quit over a year ago, TG), one of the girls I worked with borrowed my oster rip off to use on a husky. When I got it back, all of the teeth were bent back at a 90 degree angle to the handle because she was yanking it through the poor dogs coat! Needless to say I was pretty POd, and didn't lend out my tools after that. My point being, take short strokes, starting each stroke a little lower than where you started, until it stops getting "stuck," if that makes any sense. I also line brush when using this tool, because it works so much better to get most of the coat out of the way and focus on small bits. I would probably start with a 12 blade, or medium for a border collie coat, but you may need a 16 blade, or fine.

 

Another thing I do on big hairys, is use a zoom groom in the bath when I'm shampooing. Not only does it do an AWESOME job of getting down to the skin and getting the dog really clean, but my god, the amount of undercoat it gets out is fabulous. And I would much rather deal with wet undercoat than dry, static-y, stick to everything and fly up your nose undercoat! Just be careful to not go crazy "scrubbing" and use it more like a brush, otherwise you will knot up the coat. I also use it dry on pugs and labs, and find it works MUCH better than a furminator (I am really not a fan), plus it's a fraction of the cost.

 

And of course a high velocity dryer works wonders, but most people aren't going to drop a couple hundred bucks (at least) for a decent one.

 

Being a groomer I hate to say this, but I would be very hesitant to take my dogs into a shop if I didn't know how to groom. So many groomers just think they know best, and I have heard some horror stories about shave downs that were supposed to be brush and baths (or brush and baths that needed to be shave downs...) and would rather just deal with a little more shedding to be honest. That being said, if you want to try a groomer, I would ask them for references of clients who have the same or a similar breed as you, and have their dogs groomed the way that you want. Also tell the groomer that they need to call you if they feel they need to make any "alterations" to your agreed upon groom. Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but this industry is completely unregulated, and you get some real wack jobs who just decide to pick up clippers one day and think they know everything!

 

Autumn

[geonni banner]

I agree with Flamincomet's assessment. I've worked in grooming shops - only as a bathe & brush person, but I picked up a lot of useful 411. One of the cardinal rules is you never shave a double-coated dog unless it becomes a medical necessity. Tidying up feet, tummies and the perianal area is one thing, but shaving is a big no-no. I knew several Rough Collies that had their coats ruined by being shaved. They had "Big-Bird Hair" - soft, fluffy undercoat sticking out as far or farther than the guard-hairs. It really impacted their quality of life as everything stuck to their coats and they spent hours on the grooming table because of it.

 

On my own guys I used an Oster clipper to do under the base of the tail, between the toes and just in front of the prepuce on boys to prevent "pee-belly." Everything else was done with a steel comb, a mat-splitter, a slicker and thinning shears. I spent about an our and a half per week per dog and any one of them could have walked into a breed-ring at any time, had I been inclined to take them.

 

It may be that a heavy-coated working dog suffers with the heat in the summer when working stock, but I think Julie's idea of clipping bellies and inside thighs is a good one and a good working over with a thinning shears would be helpful too. Leave long-coated dogs their hair! It protects them from sun, cold, injury to the skin, and unless very active, heat as well.

 

One thing that is very important is to get mats out before bathing the dog. Intractable mats can sometimes be dealt with by putting olive oil on them and then teasing them out with a steel comb. They just tighten up something awful if you shampoo the dog first.

[Shetlander]

These type of coats are the perfect insulation and protection in all kinds of weather, if maintained!

 

So true. My Shelties who have been my dogs with the biggest hair have also been pretty impervious to heat and cold. The current Sheltie rarely pants and her tongue almost never passes her front teeth. She doesn't so much pant as glow.

 

That being said, if you want to try a groomer, I would ask them for references of clients who have the same or a similar breed as you, and have their dogs groomed the way that you want. Also tell the groomer that they need to call you if they feel they need to make any "alterations" to your agreed upon groom.

 

You can also go at it from the opposite angle. Talk to people who take dogs to groomers or people you trust and are "in the know" about dogs. The first groomer I went to was after talking to a neighbor who worked at a vet's and also took her dog in to be groomed. She told me who was good and who to steer very clear of. I've been very lucky that the three groomers I've used have all been very good at what they do and very kind to my dogs.

[Flamincomet]

One thing that is very important is to get mats out before bathing the dog. Intractable mats can sometimes be dealt with by putting olive oil on them and then teasing them out with a steel comb. They just tighten up something awful if you shampoo the dog first.

 

I've actually found the opposite to be true. Unless the dog is one big hard mat, I always put the dog in the tub first, shampoo them up real good, squeeze the water out with a towel, soak problem areas with Ice on Ice (or any detangler spray), and then work on brushing them out. I do this for several reasons, the first one being my main rule, NEVER brush a dry coat, but especially not a dry AND dirty coat. The combination causes a lot of friction and thus damage to the coat, which can cause it to mat up worse next time, and just cause poor coat condition overall.

 

The tightening of the mat is actually caused by the drying process. If you're dealing with a nice clean mat, it will slide out a lot easier, especially if lubricated with conditioner or detangling spray. Brushing the coat when wet (not soaked) also causes less friction, and will damage the coat less. If I don't need to bathe I always mist with water before brushing.

 

But I know a lot of groomers that swear by the opposite, so to each their own!

 

Autumn

[geonni banner]

I've actually found the opposite to be true. Unless the dog is one big hard mat, I always put the dog in the tub first, shampoo them up real good, squeeze the water out with a towel, soak problem areas with Ice on Ice (or any detangler spray), and then work on brushing them out. I do this for several reasons, the first one being my main rule, NEVER brush a dry coat, but especially not a dry AND dirty coat. The combination causes a lot of friction and thus damage to the coat, which can cause it to mat up worse next time, and just cause poor coat condition overall.

 

The tightening of the mat is actually caused by the drying process. If you're dealing with a nice clean mat, it will slide out a lot easier, especially if lubricated with conditioner or detangling spray. Brushing the coat when wet (not soaked) also causes less friction, and will damage the coat less. If I don't need to bathe I always mist with water before brushing.

 

But I know a lot of groomers that swear by the opposite, so to each their own!

 

Autumn

 

Interesting! I have always done it that way because that's what I was taught. The way it was explained to me was that wet hair was more apt to break when combed than dry hair, (Assuming a healthy coat in each case.) I know it's true with my hair, but my hair is so fine it breaks if you use harsh language on it!

 

I don't usually do a lot of combing before the dog's bath - just check for mats and deal with them first. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I won't be likely to test out the other way of doing it, because my current dog, nearly two years old, has never presented me with a mat! If my next dog is a "wooly one" I'll try it your way.

 

There were a couple of times when I was working as a bather, that the dog - once a Lhasa, once a Puli, - was completely stripped before going in the tub. But those poor dogs were so matted and filthy that their hair came off in one big, felted mass, crawling with fleas and dotted with maggots. Both times they had been taken from their owners, once by a relative and once by a neighbor when the owner was 51-50ed.

 

Ah, well, live and learn! I used to know a groomer that used diluted Pine-Sol for flea-dip... This was pre-Advantage/ Frontline days... (I'm an old lady!) I didn't like the idea then, and that's before I knew how toxic that stuff is! There are still people who use Murphy's Oil Soap for dog shampoo...

[BustopherJones]

When Annie is groomed, the groomer is prohibited from using any kind of cutting tool anywhere except where required to do a sani-cut around her posterior. If we ask for her coat to be thinned in the spring and summer, the groomer is only allowed to use the tools we use: an undercoat rake and a professional brush.

 

Sidebar: Annie was at the groomer last Saturday for a bath and sani-cut. (The vet trims her nails.) When I went to pick her up, the groomer said that if anything ever happened to us, she would take Annie; Annie gives her hugs and kisses the entire time she is being groomed, and has become the groomer's favorite dog. I told her that she would have to battle the vet for Annie...