Jump to content
BC Boards
RoseAmy

Liquid ivermetic

Recommended Posts

Recently someone (sorry can't find the thread and don't remember who it was), said that they give the liquid ivermectin for heartworms.

 

I know several people who do this, I'm seriouly thinking about it. However I've heard different "recipes" for doing it.

 

What I would like to know is who on the boards do it, how long have they been doing it and have there been any problems.

 

Also what "recipe" do you use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't do it and didn't check it, but try the spelling "ivermectin" rather than "ivermetic" in your search.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been doing it for at least 5 years without problems (the exception is my dog with seizures, but I can't make a definitive determination if the ivermectin is a trigger).

 

I use the 0.08% sheep drench. For dogs close to 40 lbs I give 0.5 cc once a month. For smaller dogs, I give slightly less. I use a 1-cc syringe so that my dosing is as accurate as possible.

 

This is one of those things that you do at your own risk, as I'm sure you know.

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, I've always used the 1% cattle injectable at a rate of 1/10th cc per 10 lbs (given orally) based on the advice of other breeders and the vet, that rate did not seem to effect any other worms. Increasing the dosage so that it covered other worms has caused temporary blindness in our border collies but did not effect our Australian Cattle Dogs. We use Safe-Guard in a specific rotation to take care of round worms and such.

 

 

Personally, if we only had a couple of dogs, we would stick with vet prescribed heartworm meds, especially those that are broad spectrum and cover other worms.

 

 

As Julie mentions, it's an administer at your own risk.

 

Also, the recipes could be different depending on the percent of active ingredient in the wormer that is being used and what worms they are trying to deworm against.

 

Here are three really good threads that were posted to a sled dog board, lots of information about dewormers, which after reading has me rerunning my dosage calculations....always end up second guessing, yup buying from the vet is easier...:

 

http://www.sleddogcentral.com/forum/topic....alth%3A+General

 

http://www.sleddogcentral.com/forum/topic....alth%3A+General

 

http://www.sleddogcentral.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=362

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only dog I own who gets a high enough dose of Ivermectin to take care of intestinal worms is my maremma. In her case, my vet told me the proper dose to give her after checking with the forumulary and doing the calculations. (Incidentally I got the dose for the Ivermectin from folks I trust, and also from a holistic vet when I had a pregnant bitch--at that time the bitch weighed 38 pounds and the *minimum effective dose* was calculated to be 0.1 cc.)

 

For the rest of my dogs, I use Safeguard cattle wormer (10% suspension) for intestinal worms. I worm quarterly unless I see a reason to do otherwise. With 10 dogs, using the Ivermectin and the Safeguard results in a tremendous savings. Unlike Debbie, I think that worming for everything all the time could lead to resistance more quickly, so I am a bit uncomfortable using products that take care of everything, but that's just my own bias.

 

As I noted before, these uses are off-label uses and so you have no real recourse if you cause a medical problem with your dogs by using these products. (Caveat: Safeguard for dogs is the same ingredient--fenbendazole--as Safeguard for other animals, so there shouldn't be a reason for a dog having an issue with, say, the cattle wormer, as long as you're not overdosing.)

 

One way to be safer is to have the genetic test done for the mdr1-1delta gene mutation. It's available at UC Davis. Technically, even dogs with the mutation should be able to tolerate doses of ivermectin given for HW prophylaxis, but if you're concerned I don't think the test is expensive.

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other option if you're still on the fence (as I am) - get a prescription from your vet and order HW meds online. I ordered through Valley vet this year and saved 50% on HW meds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i'm really confused... is it OK to give them HW meds like Heartguard Plus? Or is it not? I've always heard that you should never and have been desperately searching for meds for Seamus since mosquitto season is coming quick...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So i'm really confused... is it OK to give them HW meds like Heartguard Plus? Or is it not? I've always heard that you should never and have been desperately searching for meds for Seamus since mosquitto season is coming quick...

 

Check out this sticky at the top of the H&G forum http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=4966

 

But yes, you should be fine giving your BC the same HW meds you give your other dogs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Julie so you just give the sheepdench straight? That's where I was getting confused some people say they dilute it down with glycol and then I heard others say they use water. Your way seems very simple.

 

With five dogs it would add up to quite a bit of savings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RA,

The cattle injectable needs to be diluted with propylene glycol, largely I think because otherwise the amount you'd be giving would be so small as to make it nearly impossible to dose accurately.

 

Consider that if the injectable is 1% and the drench is 0.08% (let's round up to 0.1% for ease of calculation), then you'd be giving 1/10 the amount of the injectable compared to the drench to get the same dose. So if the dose for the drench is 0.5 cc, then the equivalent dose for the injectable would be 0.05 cc--too small an amount to accurately measure.

 

I use the sheep drench straight out of the bottle.

 

Kristina,

Even dogs who have the mutation that makes them susceptible to having a problem with ivermectin are generally expected to be okay when given ivermectin at the dose needed for HW prophylaxis.

 

A great source of information for ivermectin sensitivity (with links to where you can have genetic testing done, as well as information on other similar chemicals that can affect sensitive dogs) is at the American Working Collie Association's drug sensitivity page.

 

I do make a point of rotating through my dogs and having them tested for HW just to be sure that my prevention program is working.

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can use a dilutant but if you use the 0.08% Sheep drench the amount is such that you can be pretty sure it's getting into them. With the 1% cattle injectable, measuring 1/10 a cc is quite tiny so mixing it with Propylene glycol will help make sure it goes down and your measurment is accurate.

 

FYI Ivermec does not mix w/water so you have to use something like Propylene glycol so that they are mixed properly.

 

I've done both, the drench and the mix, and never had issues but once again in case you missed it, it's a "use at your own risk" because these are off label uses.

I hate to admit it but I could hardly afford to do it any other way when I have mutiple dogs (4+).

I also worm with safeguard on an as needed basis for other worms.

 

ETA:Sorry Julie and I were cross posting so this is repetive...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The HeartGard product insert will provide much of the information that posters here are asking for.

HeartGard

 

DOSAGE: HEARTGARD® (ivermectin) Chewables should be administered orally at

monthly intervals at the recommended minimum dose level of 6.0 mcg of ivermectin

per kilogram (2.72 mcg/lb) of body weight.

 

That is 2.72 micrograms/lb body weight.

Injectable Ivomec is 1% or 10,000 micrograms/mL ivermectin.

Sheep drench is 0.08% or 800 micrograms/mL ivermectin.

 

SAFETY

HEARTGARD demonstrated

no signs of toxicity at 10 times the recommended dose (60 mcg/kg) in sensitive

Collies. Results of these trials and bioequivalency studies, support the safety of

HEARTGARD products in dogs, including Collies, when used as recommended.

 

"sensitive Collies" = Collies (and all dogs) with the ABCB1-1Delta (MDR1-1Delta) mutation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<snip> have been desperately searching for meds for Seamus since mosquitto season is coming quick...

 

Mosquito season?

 

It's a year-round season here in FL. There's already plenty of mosquitos out there. I've been squishing them daily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mosquito season?

 

It's a year-round season here in FL. There's already plenty of mosquitos out there. I've been squishing them daily.

 

Yep. I wouldn't be waiting for "mosquito season".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's only been here for a week and a half and i've just started squashing them these past few days. I'd rather wait and find out info so i didn't wind up with a dead border collie lol but thanks, he's started it today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One other option if you're still on the fence (as I am) - get a prescription from your vet and order HW meds online. I ordered through Valley vet this year and saved 50% on HW meds

 

I used to do that, then suddenly my vet decided they would no longer give prescriptions or sell HW medication without testing the dogs for heartworm first at $60 each. So, I'm lucky enough to get HW meds now via a friend who runs a rescue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I used to do that, then suddenly my vet decided they would no longer give prescriptions or sell HW medication without testing the dogs for heartworm first at $60 each. So, I'm lucky enough to get HW meds now via a friend who runs a rescue.

I can't recall what my vet charges for the SNAP test (I'm thinking around $30) but I consider it a bargain as it also tests for two types of TBDs at the same time. Plus, should one of my dogs be infested with heartworm, I would not want to be treating them with heartworm preventative.

 

Whatever your vet's motivation, I think it is responsible behavior for a vet to not supply heartworm meds without making sure the dog or cat is not heartworm positive, as that could be dangerous or deadly to the animal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sue,

I think the gripe is that if your dog is on HW preventive year round, why should you have to test every year too? I know there can be failures, but really that should be the owner's choice, I think. One of the reaosns, aside from having so many dogs, I went to ivermectin is that I didn't have to test my dogs yearly in order to get HW prevention for them. It's sort of punitive: If you don't get the test, we won't sell you the meds, and then you risk your dog getting HW. Puts the owner between a rock and a hard place, and I don't like being put there.

 

In many cases, treatment for HW is the same as the preventive, so unless the dog has a major infestation, I don't think giving the preventive to a HW+ dog is going to kill it (in general).

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snap test for 5 dogs (using what's been stated here) per year, required to obtain Heartguard or simular preventive meds.

30.00 x 5= 150.00

hw preventive per dog (heardguard+ or simular)

7.00 x 5 x 12 = 420.00 (based on what I paid last time I ordered hearguard+)

570.00 total per year

Ivermec Sheep drench

+/- 35.00

I don't have a bottle here to know the oz.'s but I know the bottle expires before I have a chance to use it all so at least 2-3 years of use if not more.

 

I'm not advocating, but for me it's what I can afford.

 

I would rather have the $$ to do it the easier method (heartguard or equivilent) but I don't, so it works for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snap test for 5 dogs (using what's been stated here) per year, required to obtain Heartguard or simular preventive meds.

30.00 x 5= 150.00

hw preventive per dog (heardguard+ or simular)

7.00 x 5 x 12 = 420.00 (based on what I paid last time I ordered hearguard+)

570.00 total per year

Ivermec Sheep drench

+/- 35.00

I don't have a bottle here to know the oz.'s but I know the bottle expires before I have a chance to use it all so at least 2-3 years of use if not more.

 

I'm not advocating, but for me it's what I can afford.

 

I would rather have the $$ to do it the easier method (heartguard or equivilent) but I don't, so it works for me.

 

That's how I look at it. With five dogs it comes to a BIG savings. What dose do you use? The same as Julie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use either the sheep drench or 1% ivermec diluted depending on what I have around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Years ago a vet advised us to use sheep drench. His formula was double the dog`s weight, divide by 100 to calculate the dosage. So a 20 pound dog would get 0.4 cc and a 50 pound dog would get 1 cc. We have used sheep drench on collies as well as border collies and shelties and shepherds. Never a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that use the sheep drench, is the 960 ml bottle is the smallest available ? I've been thinking about trying this for a while, but I feel like I'd be wasting so much product with such a large amount. I'm assuming from the posts above that the product is good for a few years.

 

Jenn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Years ago a vet advised us to use sheep drench. His formula was double the dog`s weight, divide by 100 to calculate the dosage. So a 20 pound dog would get 0.4 cc and a 50 pound dog would get 1 cc. We have used sheep drench on collies as well as border collies and shelties and shepherds. Never a problem.

 

 

Thanks. Until it was brought up here I always heard about diluting down. The sheep drench was a new idea. I always have sheep drench on hand anyway. I think I'm going to give it a go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jenn,

Yep, that's the smallest size--you couldn't go much smaller and have a useful amount to treat a flock of sheep with. There is a new Southern States over near Efland off 70. Don't remember the exact exit. You could check there and just look at the expiration date on the bottle. Mine just expired and I've been using it for 4 or 5 years and there's still a third or so of the bottle left (and I even gave some to other people). The bottle no longer has a price on it, but it was less than $100, so it definitely is a bargain.

 

Trailrider,

According to your vet's calculations, I'm way underdosing, but then I used Mark's calculations (above) to determine the number of micrograms per pound and went from there. Was he also trying to cover intestinal worms?

 

2.72 ug/lb x 50 lbs = 136 ug.

136/800 = 0.17 mL (~0.2 ml)

A 1 mL dose for a 50 lb dog would be 10x the minimum effective dose. (I'll admit that math isn't my strong point, but I think I did that right!)

 

To be fair, as Mark noted even Ivermectin-sensitive dogs wouldn't be expected to have an adverse reaction at 10 times the minimum effective dose, but I choose something more middling, so I give my dogs between 0.4 and 0.5 mL (2x the minimum effective dose for a 50 lb dog--my dogs weigh between 32 and 46 pounds).

 

I periodically have the Snap test done ($35/dog) to make sure that all is well in that regard. Over the course of a year, they will generally all be tested at one time or another.

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...