on going house training problem

[alligande]

Here is our problem, Rievaulx at 7.5 months does not ask to go out. If he needs to go when he is in the house he just dissappears to 2 spots in the house. One is our front entry way that does not get used often, the other is the basement. He had a third the middle of the living room rug but we solved that by flipping the rug and putting the used bits under the couches.

We do use his crate but I don't want to have to leave him in there all day. I have also tried having him leashed to me but both of us found that a very unpleasant experience.

An example of behavior would be: Starting to squat on the rug (either pee or poop) intercepted and put outside. He then thinks its play time, if I stay outside with him he just wants to play, if I come in and watch he just wanders around and then sits at the door waiting to come in. I will then put him in the crate, where he settles down to a toy or nap and never asks to be let out. I will let him out periodically to see if he will go, regularly this can go for hours with out any other sign that he needed to pee/poop.

He does go outside, but even after a morning pee/poop he might follow up with a quick indoor version ten minutes later. And he has great bladder control, and has never made a mistake in his crate.

 

I have found him a joy to train, learns very fast and he is turning into a really great dog, I just need to figure out how to get him to communicate this.

 

I don't know if this is relevant but after reading about well raised puppies it got me thinking. He is a rescue but I do know he was backyard farm bred and raised in a barn, from the second hand info I have I don't think there was much effort put into puppy raising.

[Jack & Co.]

I have also tried having him leashed to me but both of us found that a very unpleasant experience.

 

Why is that? I would think having to clean up the sneaky poo/pee would be worse. Having my living room rug ruined would definitely make me walk around with a dog tethered to me.

 

I think the first step should be cleaning the accident spots with a great cleaner made especially for animal stains. I think it might be the Nature's Miracle line. No smells can be left behind because he will continue to think that it's an OK place.

 

I don't remember that Jack ever let me know that he had to go out. I just took him out regularly and said, "Hurry up!" or "Go poo!" so he knew he had a job to do. If he is tethered to you, you might see some signs after all. Maybe you should leash him for awhile for the trips to the backyard so he knows you are not going to let him play or run around.

 

My son dog-sits for a couple with two dogs. The dogs are trained to ring a rope of bells when they want to go out. DS thought this was awesome because he could watch TV and not have to pay attention. He finally realized that it wasn't a foolproof method because they rang the bell when they heard it raining so they could play outside, when they heard another dog barking, or just to run around outside and chase each other. Many times bathroom business was the last thing they had planned! He spent the first afternoon getting up and down off the couch letting the dogs outside until he wised up!

[GordonandClyde]

This is a common problem I get called about as a trainer of pet dogs. I'm glad you are using the crate as that does help. Puppies will need the toilet after the wake up from a sleep, after playing and also after food.

One way to get them to do the toilet outside is get some grated cheese and sprinkle it in a circle and lead him to it and walk away. He will sniff and eat some of the cheese. Because he is going round in a circle nature should make him want to go to the toilet.

Give a command to the action of doing the toilet. I tell mine to "get busy". But doesn't matter what you say.

 

As for cleaning up the pee inside, you don't say what you use to clean it up. One of the best things is make up a solution of water and your washing powder for your clothes to clean it up. Because it smells like you it should encourage him to do it less in that place.

 

I hope that helps a little.

[Guest echoica]

I would suggest you put the dog on a strict crating schedule for at least 2 weeks (whether you 'like' it or not). It sounds like he has gotten too much freedom too early. I am not talking about NOW at 7.5 months being 'early' but previous to this point. You moved too fast. He needs to learn to hold it for a longer period of time. And not all dogs give signals they are supposed to potty...you need to be proactive in taking them out rather than waiting. Set him up for success. Because each accident YOU ALLOW to happen makes it worse. It is a self-reinforcing behaviour. A schedule could look something like this: 8am Potty/Morning Walk, 9-12 Crate, 12pm Potty, 12:30-4pm Crate, 4-5 Training, 5-8 Crate, 8pm Potty/Evening Walk and so on. Basically, you are crating the dog whenever you are not actively working with the dog: feeding, training or exercise. This also helps teach the dog to settle and rely less on you for entertainment (provide stuffed kongs and toys in the crate) - reducing the likelihood he will have separation anxiety later as well (which is common with dogs who do not spend enough time alone).

 

You should also start taking the dog out on lead for pottys to the desired spot. Wait 10 minutes and if he doesn't go then bring him back in and put him in the crate. NEVER play with the dog unless he goes potty first. Try again in a half hour. No potty? Back in the crate. When he does go potty have a verbal pee party praising him like crazy and also label the behaviour 'go potty' or whatever you prefer (as a start to teaching him to potty on command...which is not an urban legend but actually not that hard to do )

 

I also agree with above...if he keeps going to the same spots it doesn't seem like it was cleaned properly. He still smells the scent. You need a specialty cleaner to remove this. Also, is he neutered? He could very well be marking as well...

 

Also, if the urination is frequent to the point of the dog seemingly being unable to hold it for longer than 15-20 minutes and they are just little squirts it would be advisable to take him to the vet to check for UTI.

 

Good luck

[jdarling]

One way to get them to do the toilet outside is get some grated cheese and sprinkle it in a circle and lead him to it and walk away. He will sniff and eat some of the cheese. Because he is going round in a circle nature should make him want to go to the toilet.

 

I've heard a lot of things ... but never this one! Wow. Whatever works, I guess.

[mobcmom]

Welcome to the world of puppy training!

 

All our dogs have been tethered to me until we felt comfortable they have some idea of rules and boundaries. From here they got to drag a six foot leash and were in the same room as a family member. Nylon is cheap and easily washable leash. If you have an old leash clip, you can make a drag line out of any kind of roping from a hardware store. The tethering will also help with bonding and training.

 

Tie a six fool leash to a belt or belt loop. Make lots of right turns, as the puppy moves with you. When making a left turn, push back on the leash with your left hand. This will move the puppy out of the way. When you sit down, the puppy can lay down or stand next to you. He will start paying a lot of attention to how you are moving.

 

Set a timer and take him outside every one to two hours. You want him to get used to going on grass and feel that texture. You want him to associate outside as the place to do his business, not your floors and carpet. Since he is in a new environment, you can set and establish new habits. Don't give the dog a chance to go in the house.

 

Picking up pee and poop and clearing floors and carpets is much more frustrating than take a dog outside for 5-10 min every hour or two.

 

Puppies can often be like little kids. If you can't see or hear them, worry about what they are doing. As with kids, don't leave them attended.

 

The good news is they are only puppies for a short time. The bad news is they are only puppies for a short time. Remember few months time investment in basic training now will have payback for a lifetime. It is worth the effort.

 

mobcmom

[Guest echoica]

I've heard a lot of things ... but never this one! Wow. Whatever works, I guess.

 

lol...that's exactly what I thought when I read that

[pansmom]

This worked for both of my dogs:

 

step one: name action "go potty"

step two: name "outside" and "inside"

step three: bring treats with you outside--when he goes potty outside get REALLY excited and say GOOD GO POTTY OUTSIDE

step four: when you catch him going inside make a really big deal and sayNO POTTY INSIDE. then bring directly outside and say GO POTTY OUTSIDE

 

It took like two weeks of this with Vala, after a life of never having to hold it and living all her life outdoors. My first dog Pan learned this at like 12 weeks...

[Laura L]

Go back to the basics. He's in a crate or on a leash at all times. Take him out frequently. Praise him when he goes outside. You probably need to clean the spots he's been using in the house better and not let him there unattended.

 

You also need to be consistent just like with any other training.

Laura

[pansmom]

Go back to the basics. He's in a crate or on a leash at all times. Take him out frequently. Praise him when he goes outside. You probably need to clean the spots he's been using in the house better and not let him there unattended.

 

You also need to be consistent just like with any other training.

Laura

 

Yeah, I should've mentioned also in my post taking out after every elimination-inducing activity (sleeping, eating, drinking) and crating when unsupervised.

 

And other people mentioned enzymatic cleaners--it's the only thing I've found that completely eliminates the smell and prevents re-soiling.

[geonni banner]

I think I would much rather have a dog on an intensive crating schedule for two or three weeks than deal with a dog that is learning day by day that going indoors is the done thing.

 

This is what I would do:

 

I would crate at night and take the dog out first thing, leashed for a short but brisk walk, ending up in the same place each time - a place where it will be most convenient to have for his potty area. Stand still and say "Hurry up" (or what ever you like.) Wait until he produces the goods and praise to the skies.

 

Back inside for breakfast, and repeat the above.

 

By this time he should be emptied out and can have a bit of freedom, but not enough to take him out of sight. If that means tethering him to you then so be it. After a couple of hours of this, back into the crate for a nap and perhaps a chewie.

 

In two hours repeat the walk & request for business.

 

Keep this protocol, always going out after meals, naps and play sessions.

 

My experience is that after a couple of weeks of this you should be able to ask the dog if he needs to "hurry up," and he will give you the "yes I do!" dance if he does.

[pansmom]

My experience is that after a couple of weeks of this you should be able to ask the dog if he needs to "hurry up," and he will give you the "yes I do!" dance if the does.

 

I love the yes I do dance! haha

[jdarling]

One way to get them to do the toilet outside is get some grated cheese and sprinkle it in a circle and lead him to it and walk away. He will sniff and eat some of the cheese. Because he is going round in a circle nature should make him want to go to the toilet.

 

I am still cracking up picturing the visual on this! I am gonna go home and sprinkle cheese in a circle and see if my dog will bust a grumpy.

[Guest echoica]

I am still cracking up picturing the visual on this! I am gonna go home and sprinkle cheese in a circle and see if my dog will bust a grumpy.

 

LOL!

[Lokisaab]

That's too funny!

 

 

I wouldn't want my dog to poop where he eats his cheese though, but that's just me.

[jdarling]

I have a dog named Echo and I taught her to spin in a really fast, tight circle when I say in a real high-pitched voice ... "sssssspppiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnn" (yeah ... me ... I taught that ... almost purely positive or clicker +P or maybe unclicked -R or maybe +-P+--R-+PR-RR+P method with just a bit of beating her silly with treats), but now I don't think I will ask her to do that in the house for fear of what might happen!

 

Just sayin'...

[BCjetta]

At 7 months, none of my dogs have had free roam of the house...they are still contained to the kitchen area or the room we are in. It took forever with our aussie to get it and he still doesn't really tell you he needs out unless its to poop. Up until he was about 1.5 he was either in his wire crate, in the crate in the bedroom, tied to the computer chair in the computer room, or loose in the kitchen if we were home and moving around. He was never actually allowed on the carpet in the living room until he was older than a year because he couldn't be trusted (I had a piece of plywood across the entry into the living room and a babygate across the hallway). He could hold it 12 hours crated, but would pee in the house after 3 hours of free in the house. He didn't totally get it until he was about 2.5-3. Now he's 5 and we've just started leaving him loose during the day when we're not home and he's been good. However, if he hasn't been out in a long time and he gets all excited or stimulated (like DH playing with him), there is the chance he will just start peeing in the middle of what we're doing (he's done this twice in the past year).

 

When my BC was a pup she was only allowed in the kitchen, in her x-pen or in her crate until she was about 5-6 months and then she was allowed in the family room as well. At my parents house, the pets were not allowed in the upstairs, dining room, formal living room, or basement so all she ever knew was the kitchen/family room.

[burdock]

Emma was so easy to train she actually comes and grabs me by the index finger and tries to take me out to the door to go out or runs back an forth to the door or sort of talks to go out or all the mentioned . We had some issues really early one but it was our fault not following the plan once got with the plan everything went fine now at 1 year olod she can hold it longer and all the time spent taking her out when younger paid off. Good luck keep up a routine and it will work.

[geonni banner]

There's no sense to it - or so it seems sometimes. Sugarfoot spent her first 6 mos. tracking through her her own wastes in a concrete pen, and I was prepared for a real odyssey of house-breaking. She went in the house exactly twice - both my fault because I got absorbed in tweaking photos and forgot to take her out. And she went on the doormat both times.

 

On the other hand I had a pup that I got as a tiny baby that took months to be absolutely reliable... Go figure.

[urge to herd]

There's no sense to it - or so it seems sometimes. Sugarfoot spent her first 6 mos. tracking through her her own wastes in a concrete pen, and I was prepared for a real odyssey of house-breaking. She went in the house exactly twice - both my fault because I got absorbed in tweaking photos and forgot to take her out. And she went on the doormat both times.

 

On the other hand I had a pup that I got as a tiny baby that took months to be absolutely reliable... Go figure.

 

 

Shoshone, who came from rescue with the foster mom swearing she'd been unable house break her or her brother, peed exactly once in the house. Before she came to the rescue organization, she lived in a 10 x 10 wire pen with her brother, never taken out, never had the pen cleaned. When they were first taken to the vet, they both had matted feces and urine scald.

 

And, one time when I was visiting her at her foster mom's, I saw her stand up right next to her bed and squat and pee. Until she came to us, she really had no concept that one didn't pee where one slept.

 

Funny story - when we first got Buzz, we had put the kitty box back in my office and closed the door, we thought. He found his way in to the office, and lifted his leg right next to the litter box. He figured if the cats could pee inside so could he. Never marked again or peed inside.

 

Every dog is different.

 

Ruth

[sweet_ceana]

I just thought I would chime in with a suggestion for letting you know he has to go.

 

We have a bell on our back door. Whenever you open the door the bell rings. The dogs quickly learn that the bell means outside. Once outside everyone (except for Ceana who prefers to potty in privacy and will only have an accident if violently ill) is required to potty before there is any frivolity and mirth. Very quickly every dog I have fostered since I got the bell has learned that if they ring the bell they get to go out.

 

After the last pup we fostered I swear by the bell. Ever since he was 12 weeks old that boy would ring the bell every single time he had to potty. DH and I both work full time and he even held it in his crate while we were at work. I wish I could take credit for his success, but it was the bell.

 

The bell works as long as it means potty, not play time. We use this order: the bell rings, go outside and give potty command, squeeky happy cheers and praise when the potty is done, then call pups inside for the potty cookie. (leave the door open) After they get the cookie we go outside to play. I leave the door open because I don't want the bell to mean play time, only potty time. Of course the dog will try to use the bell at some point to get outside to play, but as long as you stick to your guns they'll quit trying.

 

Hope that helps.

[rushdoggie]

Here is our problem, Rievaulx at 7.5 months does not ask to go out. If he needs to go when he is in the house he just dissappears to 2 spots in the house. One is our front entry way that does not get used often, the other is the basement.

 

While you are re-training him, can you block his access to these spots? For whatever reason he has ID'ed them as favorite places to eliminate and even if you get the rug 100% cleaned he may still go there from habit. Dogs like go in certain places as a routine.

 

An example of behavior would be: Starting to squat on the rug (either pee or poop) intercepted and put outside. He then thinks its play time, if I stay outside with him he just wants to play, if I come in and watch he just wanders around and then sits at the door waiting to come in.

 

Sounds like he doesn't understand why he is there. I would take him out on a 6' lead and wait him out. If he starts to play just ignore him. You will probably have to wait him out a long time. The leash will keep him from thinking it is play time, and taking him to the same area as far from a play are as you can get will help him learn that its time to go.

 

If you simply can't wait him out any longer, then yes back into his crate. Wait 10 minutes and repeat. Eventually he will have to go, and you can quietly praise and reward. Do not let him free until you get some 'action.'

 

I would also teach him a "go" cue. In my house (for whatever reason) its "do your thing." Others have used "do your business," "go potty," whatever you feel comfortable with. Every time you see him in the act of going repeat it quietly, over and over. Once he is going well on his leashed outings you can say it as you head for the 'go' spot. "OK buddy, time to do your thing." Over time, he will associate it with going and when you say it it will make him want to go.

 

Find a way to confine him to the area where you are by shutting doors or using gates so he can't sneak away and leave you a surprise. Use gates, closed doors, a tether, and ex pen, a crate or a combination. Close proximity will teach you when he will most likely go (30 mins after a meal, or right after he plays) and you can be proactive in getting him outside. Its a pain, but better than poop in the house.

 

Dogs will also learn quickly that going in the presence of a human can be bad if they get corrected or scared while going, causing them to avoid going in front of you when outside and sneaking inside. Is there any chance that something scared him like a loud noise when he was going in front of you? The waiting him out on a lead will help that too if it plays any part of the sneaking off problem.

 

Over time (many weeks) of not going in his favorite sneak spots, having a long history of being rewarded for going in his potty spot and understanding the cue to go, you can start giving him gradually more access to various rooms.

 

Good luck!

[GordonandClyde]

I also had a laugh at the cheese in a circle when I first heard it from John Rogerson at one of his seminars on aggressive dogs. It was just a general chat at lunch time. He also has it in his new book "The Dog Vinci Code". Well worth the read as a dog book.

 

It actually does work, especially on dogs that poo in the house. It going in the circular motion that all dogs do before eliminating.

 

I agree with all the comments that the dog has to have a routine. Crating you dog will help this.

[flyer]

I just went through this with Bea. She took a couple of mos. to house train for peeing. Might have pooped once in the house. Go figure. One of the things I figured out was I was confusing her by taking her out first pee of the morning and last at night to the front door and all other business to the back door during the days.

 

Here is what I did. I went back to the beginning. I closed off the living room and kitchen area. She had been peeing in the hall by the front door so I cut off that access. I told myself I would watch her for as long as this was going to take. I watched her like a hawk. She was crated when I couldn't be there. Hardly ever. Took her out the back door every hour of the day, after every nap and big play and for those first and last pees. Like others, I also hung a little bell on the back door and would ring it whenever we went out there. She started playing with it in very short order and when she did out she'd go whether she was just playing with it or actually alerting me. Took about four days and she would ring the bell to go out. I could see her ring it and look over to me. Once I had this established I let her have access to the hall. She had one accident about a week later.

 

She was 4 mos. old at this point.

 

I was very careful not to make a big deal of her goings in the house even before she was trained as I have heard this can make a smart dog simply try to hide from you to go. They learn to not go when you are around. When I had her enclosed in the rooms and was watching her closely I caught her in the act twice and then I did the big "No" and took her outside mid stream.

 

It is interesting to me that though we still have a bell at home for her to ring when I am at my friend's homes she will simply go to a door and give a little yip.

[Dixie_Girl]

I can't give you any advise, but I'll tell you my experience with the first dog I tried to housebreak. Everytime he would wet in the house, I would rub his nose in it, shake him, and throw him out the window. This went on for just a week and the dog was completely trained! Now he would wet in the house, shake himself, and jump out the window!

 

 

Now I just use a doggy door.