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Pat W.

Leaking Urine

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Meg our 9.5 yr old girlie has started to leak urine at night within the last couple of weeks, and I had a quick question that someone here might be able to answer for me. I know that there are meds that help control this type of problem, but would like to go that way only if really needful.

 

I feed raw and I seem to remember vaugely something about too much protien in a diet causing such problems as leaking. Now I could be remembering wrong so I was wondering if any other raw feeder or anyone with leaking females has heard of this?

 

Just some additional info, she is not overloading on water or having to potty more frequently as she might with a UTI.

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I haven't heard of it, but then I'm only a sometime raw feeder. Frankly putting my incontinent dog(s) on PPA was the best thing I ever did for all of us.

 

J.

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Incontinence is very common in older, spayed females (I'm assuming your dog is spayed, since they're rescues). My Lu was on Proin (I think that's the same as PPA) for years. It's cheap & easy & saved a lot on washing bedding... My Nick is one of the few incontinent male dogs, and he's been on it for awhile, too. After dealing with washing wet bedding every day, I'm happy for the pills!

 

I don't think raw has anything to do with it- my dogs had trouble on kibble and raw. My vet does think that something in our water might cause it- they see a lot of incontinence in island dogs, but who knows if it's really a cause-effect thing.

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One of my bitches has been incontinent since I picked her up as a pup at 10 weeks old and has been on PPA for the last 2 years and it works great. She will be on it for the rest of her life.

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Jazz is on Proin and doing fine. I've recently added Cranberry powder to see if it helps at all.

Sometimes she will still get licky and I wonder if it's the start of a UTI. Cranberry is supposed to adhere to the bladder wall and change the ph to help ward off UTI's.

Haven't been on it long enough to see any difference but since we've started she's not licking as much.

 

Yes the Proin has been a lifesaver for us. Jazz was really bothered by leaking, and it made her stink awful and lick all the time. She is much better now.

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Thank you everyone for the helpful info, I will be contacting our vet. Poor Meg seems very embarrased and upset when it happens because she knows she's not suppose to potty in the house.

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I remember how upset my Tyra used to get when she wet the bed. Poor thing. She was on PPA for several years, a very very low dose. Strangely enough she hasn't needed it for the past 3 years. But I was told she probably will again eventually.

 

Jennifer

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Yes, my Piper dog was on PPA for the last four years of her life. It worked really well for her until the last year, then not so much.

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Opening my big fat mouth here... (sorry!)

 

1. Raw feeding has no known link, positive or negative, to true urinary incontinence.

 

2. Ditto protein.

 

3. Cranberry is potenitally useful for unrinary tract infections, not because it sticks to the bladder wall, but because it helps prevent bacteria from doing so by inhibiting pillus formation (a sort of "grappling hook" structure that allows bacteria to cling to the bladder wall). It is, however, correct that it may potentially act as a urine acidifier, and this is often helpful for UTIs. It makes no difference to urinary incontinence, but since many dogs with urinary incontinence may have bacterial issues secondary to the incontinence (either in the bladder or in the vaginal vault, which in dogs is part of the fmale urinary tract), it may have some utility. Typically it isn't going to hurt anything, so it's not a problem to try it. (If you are not sure, check with your vet about anything else your dog might be on to make sure there are no harmful interactions.)

 

4. PPA is indeed the active drug in Proin.

 

5. Many females (usually spayed, but sometimes older unspayed females) with true urinary incontinence are etrogen-responsive; in my hands, DES has been more successful at controlling those than PPA, but use whatever works for you dog. Some DO repsond better to PPA. If yours does, there's zero need to change meds.

 

6. Being "licky" may indeed be the beginning of a UTI, or simply a response to the "internal diaper rash" effect from urine leaking. Or it may be that the dog is aware of a small amount of leaking at that moment and is just grooming. Either way, it's a useful observation.

 

7. Okay. I'll shut up now. Sorry about that. :rolleyes:

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Hey AK Dog doc!!!

We've missed you!

I'm so glad you opened your mouth! :D

Thanks for clairfying the cranberry ideas.

 

I have also found raw or higher protien doesn't seem to effect anybody (ok maybe fat if fed to much). Almost the opposite because on the lack of "nasty stuff" in raw compared to kibble. It's weird but I have to do Mick's anal glands on a reg. basis when he eats kibble but on raw he has nothing to express. And I don't think it's the fiber, but don't know why I don't think so :rolleyes:

 

So GOOD to hear from you again. Hope life it treating you well. I know you have a blog but please don't be such a stranger!!

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Hey, AK doc - good to "see" you again!

 

My experience: rescued dog (spayed female) leaked from day 1 at my house - got bad, got worse, got slightly better with Proin/PPA. Then I SWITCHED to raw - all holy bladder let loose. The difference in moisture content was huge, and cause major problems. Tried everything - more PPA, homeopathic (OK, I don't really believe in it, but was desperate....), and finally DES (a hormone). For short time, she was on both PPA and DES (ABC, 123, alphabet soup!) Then I started weaning first the PPA, then the DES. Curiously, like Jennifer, she hasn't needed much at all for the past few years -one DES a month has worked just ducky. And she just turned 14!!!

 

I tried various diaper-thingies - all awful. (Like on a baby - wearing a wet diaper caused more problems than not...) Best investmentS (yes, multiple plurals!) I ever made: crib pads. About the size of a dog bed, waterproof, with a cotton top. I put one under every bed and area where she sleeps with a blanket or towel on top. They're machine washable, so I always have a clean dry one ready to replace a soiled one. I still put them down, even though it has been something like three years since she's had a problem - I just can't believe our luck!

 

BTW, my ol' girl had some liver issues last year, and I asked about DES having any cause/effect relationship. Experienced internal medicine vet said he'd never heard of such a thing....and her latest blood work is better than it's been in several years (liver enzymes).

 

I wouldn't worry about giving either of these meds to an older dog...they do work, and the "embarassment" the problem causes is more of a problem than laundry.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

diane

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When our old Stinky dog first started leaking, the DES did the trick, but later it stopped working, but Proin did. Go figure. We took to putting a piece of GoreTex (thank goodness for neighbours that used to make clothing) under the covers of all the beds. That way, we only had to wash the covers, not the filler, too. Now that Stinky is gone, we only pull out the GoreTex when we have wet, muddy dogs- saves the beds, floor, and car from getting too gross.

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At this point Jazz must leak very little even before treatmeant I didn't see or find wet spots or dry old spots. But her rear end was ucky. Always a bit damp which i think is how the UTI gets started, ripe for bacteria. But again could be wrong.

The big give away was she had a UTI and leaky, we were sitting on the couch together and I got up, couldn't figure out why my back was wet up to my bra, then I realized that she had peed on both of us. Neither of us knew it right away. Poor dear about died of embarassment. But after treating the UTI she hasn't had that happen agian. Just leaky wet if I underdose or forget a dose which only happend once.. She gets half a tab.

Sometimes they break uneven, if she happens to get the smaller side of a pill she might leak at night so I try and give the smaller of the halfs during the day when she can get out more.

 

I keep diaper wipes to help clean the area if i notice she's dribbled a bit, but I can usually only tell if I sniff her rear (rather let Dew tell me) or she's "licky".

 

I sure hope someone takes care of me when I get old and leaky!

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I have one of those dogs who requires both DES and Proin to maintain her incontinence. She gets DES twice weekly and 1/4 tablet of Proin 3 times a day to keep her under control. Just one or the other wasn't enough. She just turned 10 in January.

 

Kathy

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thank you very very much for the info AK Doc! Meg has appt for next week to get her checked out

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Thanks (and you're welcome)... and sorry about the being-a-stranger thing; it's not just the blog, it's the three books I'm writing. That sucks up an AMAZING amount of time - like having a second job without the income. Maybe someday it will actually be worth it, though! :D

 

[goes to browse some more, playing hooky from the books...] :rolleyes:

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Hi everyone,

 

I know these comments are from a few years ago, but I am new to being a BC owner. We adopted our boy Bo in February and he is 3. Since about April I have been struggling with his incontinence (he is fixed). We have tried UTI meds, xray, blood work, and several urinalysis to no avail. My last resorts are trying incontinence meds or assuming it is behavioural. My question is if anyone has heard of these issues in a young male? Any suggestions or advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

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My Zag submissive urinated shortly after we got him at a little over a year old. It took him a good year to get over it. He started up again 4 years later when we moved here, but it didn't take him as long to quit doing it…a few months perhaps. He always laid over in a submissive posture when he did this.

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