Puppy guarding me?

[Guest echoica]

My (almost) 5 month old purebred Border Collie puppy has recently started to guard me - or so it seems. When other dogs - particularly excited puppies - get too close to me looking for attention she growls, hackles up and tries to pin down the dog bearing her teeth whilst continuing to growl. She does not bite them though.

 

She is very bonded to me since day 1, but I don't coddle her. She was a fearful puppy, unsocialized when I got her from rescue at 12 weeks. She has come a long way with socialization but a few overly zealous dogs at the dog park have attacked her twice - one cutting open her nose and the other biting her face without breaking the skin. Needless to say, I am staying away from that park now. Looking at how well-adjusted my other dog is (a Border Collie mix) - who was also fearful as a puppy from rescue - I think she might be having the wrong interactions/impressions at the park this young (my other dog had many short on-leash casual socialization experiences in a controlled fashion which turned out to be 99% positive - maybe this is why he is so good with other dogs??).

 

She is otherwise extremely calm and well exercised. She is far beyond basic obedience already.

 

Anyone have any suggestions for this? It is really unsettling.

 

Thanks!!

[shanty]

I think you've probably figured out the cause of her behavior. I'd agree that the experiences she's had have had a major influence on her current behavior. Can you try keeping her interactions positive and controlled for now, and build slowly as she adjusts? Perhaps starting with on leash greetings and moving to walking with other dogs and eventually playing with them.

 

My dog got very nervous and protective due to some bad decisions on my part (including too much socialization time at the dog park . Over time, with the right dogs in the right environments he's really improved.

 

I'm sure you'll get some other opinions. Hope something works for you!

[Guest echoica]

I think you've probably figured out the cause of her behavior. I'd agree that the experiences she's had have had a major influence on her current behavior. Can you try keeping her interactions positive and controlled for now, and build slowly as she adjusts? Perhaps starting with on leash greetings and moving to walking with other dogs and eventually playing with them.

 

My dog got very nervous and protective due to some bad decisions on my part (including too much socialization time at the dog park . Over time, with the right dogs in the right environments he's really improved.

 

I'm sure you'll get some other opinions. Hope something works for you!

 

this is what i was thinking as well. i think i moved too fast for her. and to be honest...the dog park is doing more harm than good for both my dogs. even my well-adjusted dog has picked up on a few things i don't particularly like as well. nothing serious. yet. but...better to stay away from so many unknown variables i think. it's too bad because it so fun to see the dogs romp around together - when the good dogs are there. all it takes is one bad dog to ruin the fun for all. back to puppy play dates for me!! thanks for your comments!!

[Rave]

Dog parks are horrible for puppies, and not that great for adult dogs either. Find a structured class setting and some nice leashed dogs to set up positive experiences for your pup. A class with an experienced trainer would be the best thing now. That trainer can show you a lot of things you can be doing now to positively associate other dogs with something pleasant. You may be able to find an appropriate play group too, but it sounds like you need some guidance, which may not be available in a play group. Plus the play group might not take a pup that's been to a dog park (one of mine won't).

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Dog parks are horrible for puppies, and not that great for adult dogs either. Find a structured class setting and some nice leashed dogs to set up positive experiences for your pup. A class with an experienced trainer would be the best thing now. That trainer can show you a lot of things you can be doing now to positively associate other dogs with something pleasant. You may be able to find an appropriate play group too, but it sounds like you need some guidance, which may not be available in a play group. Plus the play group might not take a pup that's been to a dog park (one of mine won't).

I agree that a class with a trainer and leashed dogs is the best approach to this for sure. Just curious as to why a play group won't take a dog that's been to a dog park though Rave? I've never heard of this. Granted, we don't go to either. Still interesting.

Dog parks have cause a lot of bad experiences for my dog. She would have still been reactive I'm sure, due to her "wiring", but she got attacked a couple of times and that seemed to make things worse.

I would suggest that until you can find a good class, limit her interactions with other "strange" dogs so that she doesn't have another bad experience to add to her list.

[Guest echoica]

i also find that rather strange that a group would actively discourage dogs who have been to a park from joining. that is kind of elitist and makes some pretty bad generalization that i am SURE are not applicable to all dogs who go to the park.

 

thanks for all your comments!

 

i am going to stick with more controlled interactions for now. pay as you go dog socials and such. i am not going to put her through formal training with ANOTHER trainer though - it would be a big bore for me and her given she has already surpassed basic obedience and has doggy dates all the time should the problem escalate than i could maybe justify a behaviourist. but i think i am well-suited to deal with this having studied it formally and worked with dogs (particularly shelter dogs) for so long. i just thought i would make a post here to see what the rest of you all think. i am always open to different ideas!... insecurity is nothing new to me. it is common in a lot of shelter dogs. my other dog was no exception. he just received different socialization experience because where i lived at the time was completely deficient of options - he got most of it on walks through petsmart! ha!

[Rave]

Not elitist, that particular play group I mentioned takes young puppies who aren't fully vaccinated yet, so are limiting exposure and making it as safe as possible for the pups. The risk of exposure to disease is higher with more exposure to unknown dogs with unknown vaccination histories. Sure a pup could be exposed walking down the street, but it's about limiting potential exposure in order to decrease risk, so no dog park puppies. I'm all for it since I want to keep my pup safe and dog parks DO create a lot of rude behaviors in general.

[flyer]

Simply a pet owner, but I thought I would contribute anyway.

 

I have a new pup who started out guarding me from my 1 yr. old pup. She doesn't guard anything else like food or high value bully sticks, ect. just me. I would tell her to chill which I had already installed as they can get pretty rambunctious together, (mat from Control Unleashed is the same premise, the key is rewarding relaxation not just a cessation of the growling/barking/gripping) Then I would turn and ignore her and continue to stroke and talk to Colt in a gentle way. When she was quiet and sitting watching us I would then stroke her and tell her what a good pup she was and include her in the affection still going on. She got the picture really quickly and I can fuss over Colt without her getting involved at all, but then she would do this at the park where we walk if a dog approached me in an excited manner. I did the same thing there. Took just a few dogs and now she is fine with that also.

[pansmom]

Simply a pet owner, but I thought I would contribute anyway.

 

I have a new pup who started out guarding me from my 1 yr. old pup. She doesn't guard anything else like food or high value bully sticks, ect. just me. I would tell her to chill which I had already installed as they can get pretty rambunctious together, (mat from Control Unleashed is the same premise, the key is rewarding relaxation not just a cessation of the growling/barking/gripping) Then I would turn and ignore her and continue to stroke and talk to Colt in a gentle way. When she was quiet and sitting watching us I would then stroke her and tell her what a good pup she was and include her in the affection still going on. She got the picture really quickly and I can fuss over Colt without her getting involved at all, but then she would do this at the park where we walk if a dog approached me in an excited manner. I did the same thing there. Took just a few dogs and now she is fine with that also.

 

^This. Another pet owner chiming in - if she's resource guarding - it's what worked for me too.

[Guest echoica]

no resource guarding (food, toys etc). just warning dogs that get to close to her or me. she only does this with very specific dogs...not all. excited puppies or overzealous little adult dogs. i can't exactly walk away and do nothing because it happens with the excited dogs off leash that come over to me and her for attention. this would require the other people to leash their dogs...and i am not about to scorn people i don't know around where i live or at an off leash park for allowing their friendly dog come over to us - although it really is bad doggy etiquette to just let your dog go up to whoever it wants without asking the individual's permission! but at the same time, if my dog gets up in their face for it, i am not going to take the blame for it either. since writing this original entry i have talked to quite a few people about this - some trainers - and it think i have a better grasp on what is going on. what she is doing really is an appropriate behaviour if you think about it. completely natural. dog is in her face and won't back down so she serves a correction. this is how dogs learn from each other. my concern is that most other people don't see it that way and i don't want people to think my dog is aggressive. because she really is not. i hope that makes sense. how do you correct something that probably shouldn't be corrected for?

 

rave - i retract elitist. clearly, if they are doing that for the sake of health due to vaccinations, that is totally reasonable. i assumed it was due to behaviour simply because of the context in which you wrote about it. thanks for clarifying

[mbc1963]

...what she is doing really is an appropriate behaviour if you think about it. completely natural. dog is in her face and won't back down so she serves a correction. this is how dogs learn from each other. my concern is that most other people don't see it that way and i don't want people to think my dog is aggressive. because she really is not. i hope that makes sense. how do you correct something that probably shouldn't be corrected for?

 

You're asking the question of my dog's life. Came home reactive at two, and has lost lots of his triggers, but desensitizing him to loose dogs charging while he's on leash just isn't happening. That would require loose dogs who charge, but freeze outside his "safe zone" so I can reward, and then moving the loose-dog-charges closer and closer. That simply isn't going to happen. A whole lot of loose dogs are knuckleheads. (I <3 loose dogs who actually jump back and give Buddy space when he snarls and snaps - they are the ones who can later become his friends. I do not <3 loose dogs who come right back in his face, all big and yellow and wiggly. They are our enemies.)

 

At any rate, I was able to correct Buddy's resource-guarding of ME. He used to try to "take down" any dog - even a friend - who looked like he wanted to say "hi" to me. And, given that I want to say "hi" to all dogs, that's a lot of fighting!

 

After I had trained Buddy in a solid sit/stay, I would let go of Buddy's leash and put him on the side of the path, and then call the other dog over to me for greetings and cuddles. Seeing me unafraid and delighted about meeting another dog seemed to calm Buddy's need to intervene. In fact, he's absolutely content if I meet the dog and he doesn't have to. (The other owners ask me, "Won't he get jealous?" Nope. Not at all. He loves that I absorb the dog attention that he simply doesn't want.)

 

Mary

[Guest echoica]

After I had trained Buddy in a solid sit/stay, I would let go of Buddy's leash and put him on the side of the path, and then call the other dog over to me for greetings and cuddles. Seeing me unafraid and delighted about meeting another dog seemed to calm Buddy's need to intervene. In fact, he's absolutely content if I meet the dog and he doesn't have to. (The other owners ask me, "Won't he get jealous?" Nope. Not at all. He loves that I absorb the dog attention that he simply doesn't want.) Mary

 

Thanks Mary! I will try to do a bunch of this on Sunday - we are going to a doggy social =) She doesn't leave my side often, but when she does...

[shanty]

no resource guarding (food, toys etc). just warning dogs that get to close to her or me. she only does this with very specific dogs...not all. excited puppies or overzealous little adult dogs. i can't exactly walk away and do nothing because it happens with the excited dogs off leash that come over to me and her for attention. this would require the other people to leash their dogs...and i am not about to scorn people i don't know around where i live or at an off leash park for allowing their friendly dog come over to us - although it really is bad doggy etiquette to just let your dog go up to whoever it wants without asking the individual's permission! but at the same time, if my dog gets up in their face for it, i am not going to take the blame for it either. since writing this original entry i have talked to quite a few people about this - some trainers - and it think i have a better grasp on what is going on. what she is doing really is an appropriate behaviour if you think about it. completely natural. dog is in her face and won't back down so she serves a correction. this is how dogs learn from each other. my concern is that most other people don't see it that way and i don't want people to think my dog is aggressive. because she really is not. i hope that makes sense. how do you correct something that probably shouldn't be corrected for?

 

echocia - you are probably right that she is reacting appropriately to the other dogs lack of social manners, however, FWIW, we realized that those are exactly the type of dogs who seem to thrive in dog parks - over zealous, over friendly and with NO personal space issues. We realized that Truman was indeed 'too proper' for such dogs and was just making that clear, however, continually putting him in that situation was a stress to him and did make him more anxious.

 

He does REALLY, REALLY well meeting dogs off leash on our walks now and by staying in tune with his body language and being more relaxed ourselves with 'normal' doggy behavior (including the occassional growl from him or others) we can handle most any encounter. But I'd still say putting him in our local dog park environment was not good for him - if only because the types of dogs there were constantly breaking his personal etiquette rules

 

I hope you find a solution that makes you and her happy in the long run. I also found the pressure of "what other people think" to be bad for us, so we just don't meet with that group at the dog park anymore. I think it was partly my anxiety about offending others that led to his anxiety problems in the first place.

 

You have a gorgeous puppy and you're obviously putting a lot into her upbringing. We wish you the best.