herdcentral Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hi, I have been on this board for the while as the owner of a lovely adopted show bred BC that I train in obedience and agility. I have recently acquired a small farm (200 acre) and a lovely working bred Border collie pup. He is now nearly 4 months old. I am preparing myself for the task ahead of training him to work on my planned Dorper flock. There are some people around locally that I hope may help out. But I also like to be self suffiicient. Anyhow I purchased the DVD First Steps in Border Collie Sheepdog Training From Chaos to Control demonstrated by Andy Nickless (UK). It seemed to make a lot of sense to me and I really enjoyed watching it. Has anyone watched it? It seems that the round yard and placid sheep seem to early training essentials? I also need to fence my rather large paddocks into smaller ones for training. A couple of photos taken several weeks ago of Drift and his ACD companions. Caroline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I have a student who recently got this DVD and said it made sense to him too. He just loaned it to me to get my opinion, but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. If you want to make beginning training easier, it certainly does help to start with some very well dog-broke sheep, especially if you're a beginner yourself. I'll try to watch the DVD over the next few days and come back with an opinion.... P.S. The picture of Drift in the stock tank with his ACD buddy taking a drink is adorable! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thanks that would be great. I am gearing myself to follow the advice from this DVD. It has been very hot here and Drift likes to stick his nose under the water and blow bubbles in the trough. He is a delightful dog, very energetic but biddable and is also happy to lie around and chill out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I have no experience with the DVD but certainly wish you the very best with your farm, your sheep, and your sheepdog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudpups Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hi Caroline Whereabouts are you in Australia? We have a few things in common -we have just moved to the country as well (south west WA), only 43 acres though. We've also acquired two more working bred puppies and will be getting some dorpers in the next week or two hopefully...LOL AND...I have just purchased that dvd as well so I am interested in what others have to say about it...so far I have only watched the first ten minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hi Caroline Whereabouts are you in Australia? We have a few things in common -we have just moved to the country as well (south west WA), only 43 acres though. We've also acquired two more working bred puppies and will be getting some dorpers in the next week or two hopefully...LOL AND...I have just purchased that dvd as well so I am interested in what others have to say about it...so far I have only watched the first ten minutes. Hi Michelle - central wheatbelt WA, so probably lower rainfall than you. I need to get an outrigged hot wire and tight bottom wire before I get my Dorpers to make sure they dont get the chance to mingle with my neighbours Merinos! I really enjoyed the DVD and the penny started to drop on things I have read about on this site. However being a complete beginner I was certainly interested on opinions from the more experienced. My neighbour who farms the surrounding 10,000+ acres has kelpies and is breeding one of his bitches on her next cycle, asked me if I wanted a pup, and I was very tempted but I think I will concentrate on the one pup for the moment and get myself familiarised with the joys of the working Border collie. Two pups are going to keep you busy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well, I for one like that stock tank! Pic is just great too Lots of different opinions on how to start a pup, but I think it's a good idea to have a smaller pen, and nicely dog broke sheep. If you have wild sheep, and Merinos can be absolutely nutty, as you know, it just works against you. Simon Leaning is out in Western Oz- how far from you? He has/trains Kelpies and Border Collies- he has come to the USA several times now, and he is highly regarded. I have a friend in NSW who is helping out some newbies start their dogs, but that, I assume is too far away from you... Anyway, good luck with everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Simon Leaning is out in Western Oz- how far from you? He has/trains Kelpies and Border Collies- he has come to the USA several times now, and he is highly regarded. I have a friend in NSW who is helping out some newbies start their dogs, but that, I assume is too far away from you... Simon Leaning would be about 180 kms away so not far at all- thanks for that. I see he does lessons. NSW would be a bit of a hike - need several cut lunches for that one! LOL As to sheep I was planning on starting off my flock with mainly dorper lambs. So their experience with dogs would be minimal, maybe I should also look around for some older ewes that have been dog broke. I plan to look around for some portable yards so I can make a training ring of various diameters and also fence some smaller paddocks. The ones I have currently are large with lots of granite outcrops and creeks which could be a bit challenging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Simon Leaning would be about 180 kms away so not far at all- thanks for that. I see he does lessons. NSW would be a bit of a hike - need several cut lunches for that one! LOL As to sheep I was planning on starting off my flock with mainly dorper lambs. So their experience with dogs would be minimal, maybe I should also look around for some older ewes that have been dog broke. I plan to look around for some portable yards so I can make a training ring of various diameters and also fence some smaller paddocks. The ones I have currently are large with lots of granite outcrops and creeks which could be a bit challenging! Definitely get some older ewes that are dog-broke to start, usually if lambs are old enough to work, they will be cooperative if they have older sheep to follow and then later, when you have more experience, you can sort older lambs off seperately for more interesting work. My DorperX are usually very sweet puppy sheep- they really have to be bothered to panic and they usually will let anything move them and not challenge insecure dogs (except one black ewe I have, a dream to work but HATES barkers- barkers must be taught a lesson !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyO Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi Caroline, I recently purchased this dvd and have watched about 3/4 of it. I think it's well suited for someone who is just starting out. He does alot of explanation for preparing to train your dog, the setup needed, the commands etc. He shows 3 different styles of dogs starting, one that just wants to hold sheep to the fence, one not very enthusiastic, and one that's a bit wild starting. He shows the problems he has in trying to get them going around the sheep and some ways to work thro them. I have to admit I laughed at a few spots, recognizing the same problems I may have had when starting a young dog. He is not always successful in the beginning of what he wants to accomplish, which I think is helpful to know that things don't always go smoothly, but then he shows how you might work thro the issues. He occ does a bit more shouting than I would like, but certainly nothing abusive to the dogs. The sheep occ jump out of the corral, but he is trying to control the dog and corrects them if they go in for a nip. From what I've watched so far, I think it's probably the most realistic video of starting a young dog, that I've seen. Not every dog just goes around it's sheep and brings them to you, as depicted in some training videos. I would certainly recommend finding a trainer, if at all possible. Good luck with your young pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 From what I've watched so far, I think it's probably the most realistic video of starting a young dog, that I've seen. Not every dog just goes around it's sheep and brings them to you, as depicted in some training videos. I would certainly recommend finding a trainer, if at all possible. Good luck with your young pup. Thanks Nancy, as a complete beginner I found the DVD mildly reassuring and easy to understand. I agree that a trainer would be a good idea and will start make a few enquiries after the new year break (our summer holiday season). I am joining our districts working sheep dog club too. Drift is still very young but he is certainly an enthusiastic young man and is a bit of tiger with wheelbarrows, trolleys, brooms and my other dogs who have to chastise him when he tries to control them with some very nice come bye and away manouvres! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Sounds like things are going to go well for you but I would like to offer a word of advice/warning about the rakes, brooms, trolleys, etc. My first working-bred pup spent all his time right with me. He "turned on" at an early age to chasing the broom, rake, even horses I was leading, and so forth at the stable where I worked. I thought it "cute" and a harbinger of great skills to come. What it turned out to be was a bunch of bad habits that I allowed to start, develop, and become ingrained. Since I did not manage to teach him manners around such tools and the horses on lead (only on lead, and none others), and was not skilled enough to "unteach" these habits, I had to lock him in a stall or crate when I needed to sweep, rake, or make other use of the tools. The same could be said of trolleys or feed wagons and so on. My advice would be to put him up when you are doing things that you don't (or might not, in the future) want him involved with - tools, wagons, horses, and so on. When he's a bit older, when you are starting him on stock (by that time, once he's on stock, these other things won't tend to attract him so much), and when you have a better idea of what habits might or might not prove harmless or even beneficial, then you might find you can have him around you for the types of chores that involve tools and wagons. I learned my lesson (largely) with Skye and so have many fewer issues with Celt (although he still loves chasing the snow that I shovel and is way too interested in working my mare when I lead her, so I know I did not do a thorough enough job with him). I regretted what I allowed Skye, in my ignorance, to develop as counterproductive habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Sounds like things are going to go well for you but I would like to offer a word of advice/warning about the rakes, brooms, trolleys, etc. My first working-bred pup spent all his time right with me. He "turned on" at an early age to chasing the broom, rake, even horses I was leading, and so forth at the stable where I worked. I thought it "cute" and a harbinger of great skills to come. What it turned out to be was a bunch of bad habits that I allowed to start, develop, and become ingrained. Since I did not manage to teach him manners around such tools and the horses on lead (only on lead, and none others), and was not skilled enough to "unteach" these habits, I had to lock him in a stall or crate when I needed to sweep, rake, or make other use of the tools. The same could be said of trolleys or feed wagons and so on. I regretted what I allowed Skye, in my ignorance, to develop as counterproductive habits. Yes wise words, I have started putting him away. I cant believe how instant his attraction to these things were. I pulled out my wheelbarrow for the first time and he was on it. Fortunately he has a very strong instant recall and I can call him off, same when he gets carried away trying to control my other dogs. I usually carry my lead with me on walks and he is very good and settled when I put it on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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