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A facebook friend pointed out a breeder in Ontario who won't sell to fat people. lol Sure enough I went on their website and read,

"We also do not sell our pups to people who are sufficiently overweight to prevent them from being active enough for a border collie."

 

And yet at the same time, they're purposely breeding "pet" BCs,

 

"We breed the family pet type of border collie, which means our dogs are lower drive, very friendly, love children, and have an off switch.

 

Although our pups do fine in recreational sports or herding, they are not appropriate for competitive sports or serious stock dog or sheep dog work as they simply do not have enough drive."

 

However they offer stud service and claim their male "also has a good working drive which makes him well suited for producing pups which will be used for herding and/or sports."

 

They also believe "Animals are made to breed each cycle" and start at 18 months.

 

Oy Vey.

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Wow. :rolleyes:

 

Personally, no pups from them.

 

Ummmm..... Humans are animals, does that mean they should be bred each cycle? If so, please shoot me now. Just a thought.

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You must be joking. What is the fitness quotient of these breeders? I think this entire paragraph could be used as a RED FLAG illustration.

 

A facebook friend pointed out a breeder in Ontario who won't sell to fat people. lol Sure enough I went on their website and read,

"We also do not sell our pups to people who are sufficiently overweight to prevent them from being active enough for a border collie."

 

And yet at the same time, they're purposely breeding "pet" BCs,

 

"We breed the family pet type of border collie, which means our dogs are lower drive, very friendly, love children, and have an off switch.

 

Although our pups do fine in recreational sports or herding, they are not appropriate for competitive sports or serious stock dog or sheep dog work as they simply do not have enough drive."

 

However they offer stud service and claim their male "also has a good working drive which makes him well suited for producing pups which will be used for herding and/or sports."

 

They also believe "Animals are made to breed each cycle" and start at 18 months.

 

Oy Vey.

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These folks were, if I recall correctly, discussed in quite a long topic some months back. Scary, yes. Selling pups, yes. Making money off the dogs, yes. Making money off the gullible, yes. There will always be someone to part the naive, selfish, and/or ignorant of their money. Too bad the dogs (bitches in particular) pay the price in the long run.

 

On the other hand, any good breeder should be willing to screen buyers for suitability - and that just might include physical suitability for what the dog needs. While I know or know of several large people who are terrific owners, trainers, and handlers, there are also some people who are just not physically or health-wise suited to an active breed like a Border Collie. I know of one dog from an excellent working breeding that was sold to a woman with significant health issues. That dog is a nutcase (IMO, from the times I've seen her) because she can't be worked/exercised reasonably by her owner. She vented her frustrations on one occasion with a displacement behavior by biting Bute who, as a pup, was standing nearby when the dog was going frantic watching dogs work sheep at a demo. And the breeder sold her another dog, which has since been bred and pups sold on...

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I went to their website, and perused. The thing I took away, was that they highlighted pet border collies, you know, calmer, less drive, and they have pics of such. But, what about a less dull WELL TRAINED Border Collie instead? What about a dog who wasn't bred to be dull, but trained to be well behaved. I think this sort of dog appeals to lazier folks who want a BC, but don't want to do any work to have that dog.

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Especially the people who equate "world's smartest dog" with "dog that trains itself and therefore needs little or no input from the owner" which is not really the case at all.

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On the other hand, any good breeder should be willing to screen buyers for suitability - and that just might include physical suitability for what the dog needs. While I know or know of several large people who are terrific owners, trainers, and handlers, there are also some people who are just not physically or health-wise suited to an active breed like a Border Collie.

 

Two words -- Ilsa Sternberg. There are people who are not suitable to own a border collie, but I don't think you can determine that by size or health alone.

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Sue,

I think what Laura was amazed at was the fact that these people are breeding low-drive, couch potato border collies and then (hypocritically) stating that they won't sell to overweight people because such people can't meet the activity needs of the breed. Hello? What activity needs? Didn't you, the breeder, just get done touting how your dogs were suitable as family pets because they are low-drive couch potatoes? How could such dogs be inappropriate for overweight people (even overlooking the fact that many overweight people are certainly active enough for an active dog).

 

As I stated in another thread, a person's size or health isn't likely to be the issue, but rather the person's *commitment* to training and interaction with the dog.

 

J.

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Maybe I did not communicate well because Julie hit it when she pointed out "commitment", and Eileen when she pointed out that there is more than any single attribute to consider. That is what separates suitable from unsuitable, not any particular characteristic(s).

 

I've seen Ilsa run her dogs at Bluegrass, and she is always an inspiration. Not everyone, able-bodied or not, has that level of commitment. In addition, she has the resources to support her choices.

 

Capability, as supported by commitment, might perhaps be a much better criterion. And, then there are too many people who have the potential to be capable or suitable owners, who are not suitable because they choose not to be.

 

Good discussion!

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Guest echoica

just reading those few tidbits...they should not be breeders.

 

and like julie said, it is the level of commitment not the size of the person. as if!

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Well part of my amazement was the hypocrisy of it all, but also the fact that size can not be exclusively correlated with with activity level. One of the skinniest people I know spends most of her time shopping, eating & playing internet games and would be a horrible pet owner, regardless of breed. I live on a street active with walkers/joggers/bikers/etc and there's a whole range of sizes out there exercising. Just go watch any dog sport - they're not exclusive to skinny people. It just blows my mind that someone could be that disillusioned; it's just another form of bigotry.

 

edit - I've emailed the breeder. Will let you know the response.

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edit - I've emailed the breeder. Will let you know the response.

 

 

Awe heck, the breeder probably likes getting the e-mails and just loves all the attention received by stirring a pot. I suspect there are other "issues" contributing to the terms on the website. Could be one of those people that loath overweight people, you know that ones that you see on Tyra, Maury or Jerry Springer. Just shake my head and pitty the fool...

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I"m sure glad that Robin's breeder took a chance on me...recent knee replacement, and oh yeah, that lung thing. I told her all of it and she smiled at me and said, "You need a puppy." Turns out he was the best medicine in the world. I wouldn't have poked my head outside today if not for him and Brodie.

 

 

Liz

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That implies they won't sell to people with mobility problems like myself or Bexie. Have you seen some of the people in agility? A lot don't look like they can make it around a course.

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If they have overweight kids, they've probably been done away with.

:rolleyes::D:D

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:rolleyes::D:D

Well, or bred at a youthful fertile cycle and every succeeding one...

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I, like Liz am very grateful that the breeder I bought from looked at me when I told her I had had breast cancer and said I needed a dog, and needed to try to achieve my dream of teaching it to herd my ducks..(still not gotten that one accomplished yet...)It was a pipe dream of mine, never even knew you could get a dog to herd ducks until I started to read here...LOL... but yup, I'm over weight and only had enough endurace to walk about a half mile to start...but we have made it to 3 miles now... not in this blizzardy stuff...we only go 1.5 in this icky weather if we are able to get out. Bess is such an integral part of my health plan! She inspires me and keeps me company on the long walks which would get kind of boring without her. I'm just waiting for better weather to practice backward walking without falling on my bum so I don't break a hip going for my dream. (BTW..Last year, all the really good ladies I saw at Ettrick kennels trial were skinny.... sheep must be hard work!)

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I, like Liz am very grateful that the breeder I bought from looked at me when I told her I had had breast cancer and said I needed a dog, and needed to try to achieve my dream of teaching it to herd my ducks..(still not gotten that one accomplished yet...)It was a pipe dream of mine, never even knew you could get a dog to herd ducks until I started to read here...LOL... but yup, I'm over weight and only had enough endurace to walk about a half mile to start...but we have made it to 3 miles now... not in this blizzardy stuff...we only go 1.5 in this icky weather if we are able to get out. Bess is such an integral part of my health plan! She inspires me and keeps me company on the long walks which would get kind of boring without her. I'm just waiting for better weather to practice backward walking without falling on my bum so I don't break a hip going for my dream. (BTW..Last year, all the really good ladies I saw at Ettrick kennels trial were skinny.... sheep must be hard work!)

 

 

You and I are fortunate in so many ways!

 

We were over at the breeder's for a New Year's tea and she was nearly in tears looking at how healthy I am now. I'm not quite up to three miles yet, but I can make it to the top of the hill behind my house and last June I could only make it to the top of the yard! The training helped a great deal too -- learning how to walk at a pace that suits both Robin and myself all the while talking with him helped me to regain my balance as well as a regular breathing rhythm. It hurt, as you know, but watching all three dogs chase around the fields, joyful in every new discovery really lifts your spirits.

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Ugh. I think I know someone who bought a puppy from these guys (says he got the pup from a breeder who breeds "lower drive" dogs). Sure, he's trim (as are his kids), but it was, frankly, obvious from the start that he had no idea how to take care of the dog. I've seen them three or four times, and the dog was more and more unstable and out of control every time they went through the local dog park. It looks like he's spent no time bonding with him at all. The first time I saw him, he was getting intimidated by the Big Scary Older Dogs and ran to <i>me</i> instead of his owner, he stood by and did @! all.

 

Haven't seen them in a while, also, and that alone makes me sad and anxious. : ( I wouldn't trust this breeder's judgment at all.

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