geonni banner Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Geonni, about the dilution sidebar, I think it's just a difference in terminology. Most BC people (at least most here) refer to what you call "double dilute" as a double merle or homozygous merle or a "big no-no!" The term dilution is typically used to describe the coat effect on solid-colored dogs, e.g. black to "blue," not on merles (at least among this crew). On to the main discussion, my friends with Aussies refer to their tri's as having "copper points," and I've yet to hear any BC people use the term copper. Tri is tri, whether it's brown, tan, copper, etc.. They also use the term "black bi" for a black and white. Silly Aussie people. Thanks for your aside - I figured as much, each breed tends to develop it's own terminology for nuances in colors (which occur in multiple breeds) and genetic transmission thereof - It just irked me a bit to be told "there's no such thing," as opposed to "We don't call it that" or "Are you sure that's a valid term?" or something a tad more polite. I'm over it. It's just a subject I've spent years studying across various breeds and species, and the absolute inflexibility of the poster rubbed me a bit the wrong way... Ah well, spirited exchanges are good too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted November 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 These are quotes from some of your old posts, now in this one you talk about the breeder having both bc's and aussies, $100 more for papers..., not typically a sign of a reputable breeder. Your dog may very will be purebred border collie, but based on your posts I would not say that there is no reason to think that he is not, anything is possible when a breeder has more then one breed of dog. Also "(the trainer knows all of this)", does the trainer know the breeder? No she does not, I asked her and she said "never heard of her" I'm not trying to say you don't know your dog, I just can't help but wonder if there is a reason that the trainer in question is saying your dog is a mixed breed other then the just by relying on the copper color. The second she saw him, she commented on his color and asked "are you sure he isn't mixed with an aussie, I have never seen a BC with that color" "The dam of my pup was black and white, I never got to see his sire After I got to posting about it I asked the gal in charge of the place, because the owner was in the hospital and could not talk on the phone. She confirmed that his sire was a red (maby red tri?) and sent over pics. In the litter there were 2 b/w pups, 1 Tri (wiley) and one blue merle Turns out the blue merle was from a different litter. So does that make the sire Blue merle? What are your thoughts? " "I don't have any papers for him. The gal said both of his parents were agility/ working dogs. She had just been in a car accident that left her paralyzed and was getting out of the business. Prior to her accident she was a very accomplished agility dog trainer/breeder. I didn't really care if he was registered or not because I was just going to neuter him. " Ideally yes, you would like them to know, but unfortunately some don't. Reminding me of a trainer/judge/breeder (not bc) telling me that a scissor bite was a fault due it causing injury to livestock...cut's like a scissors is what was said, I did some google searching to verify the information. We tend to want to place trainers on a pedestal, doing so is only setting ourselves up for disappointment. I doubt you will find a single trainer/professional that knows it all, they will be versed on what is most important to them. We forget that the internet has not been around all that long, along with the wealth of information and misinformation that can be found on it. We may google, bing or dogpile to find all the answers, but there are many that do not. I agree that he there is a chance that he could be a mix breed, but you can assume that of any dog that isn't registered. Anyone at any point can say "oh this is his sire and bring out a random BC" ya know. If he is part aussie (which im positive he is not) he is the most intelligent, BC like mix I have ever met I don't think the fact that she has 2 different breeds of dog makes her an irresponsible breeder. In her house she had walls lined with herding and agility pictures of her in the winners circle (if thats what you call it in the dog world) with both BC's and Aussies. Also the fact that she wanted more money to register them is not uncommon atleast around the breeders I have known. She was in a bad spot in her life and didn't have the time or energy to do all the paper work. She was selling all of her dogs and getting out of the business. Thanks for you insight into this and I appriciate your effort to get to the bottom of it. But as far as the trainer goes. She made an assesment based on his apperance before she even saw him walk forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Well, the authoritative source (your term) is me. It's quoted from an article I wrote several years ago.Thank you for the clearification. I saw the quotations and wish to know the source.Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 No copper colored Border Collies? This is what Stelly thinks about that ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Looks like Miss Stella has the last say on the subject! Now, what would the folks the OP was concerned with think about Miss Stella, and what breed she is? He/she would probably not have a clue, even watching Stella work. Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Stella is obviously a rare Laughing Border Hyena. They round up the livestock, bring it to the handler, put it in a pen... then eat it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoga Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 STELLAAAAAAAA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Aw, Stella, don't get your nose all out of joint. We believe you, we love copper dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Stella is obviously a rare Laughing Border Hyena. They round up the livestock, bring it to the handler, put it in a pen... then eat it Hee heee, that is a pretty good laughing hyena shot ;-) This weekend I got asked if she was an Aussie, and then someone asked me if she was a Catahoula ;-) And of course I'll never forget the first time a neighbor saw me out in the front yard with her (as a pup) "what kind of pup is that?" me, "Border Collie" then I get 'the look' ;-) "That's an Aussie, "you got Gypped" ;-) Yeah, I feel very gypped LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Well, isn't gyp another word for bitch? So, with Stella, you really did get "gypped". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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