Jlacy Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I was told by the BC rescue person that if the body of a BC is predominantly white with red or black markings they have softer temperaments. How can someone determine if they have a Pet line or a Working line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 That's a gross generalization, and like with any other generalization, you will find as many exceptions as you will dogs that fit it. The only way to tell what lines your dog is from is to find out the breeding on it. Instead of lumping your dog into a category based on its color, why not just take it for the individual that it is? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 The only way to see if you have a dog with good working ability is to put them on sheep. I have 3 BC - one with dubious breeding, one from a nice working breeder and one from an unknown background. All three are high drive that could be trained for any high drive sport. The first two have enough working ability to be quite helpful around the farm (I haven't tried training them past that) and the third has a automatic crouch and stare with sheep, but I haven't tried actually working her on them. The breed as a rule is a working breed - there is not yet the huge split that you see in most other breeds. I think that even many BYB BCs are still close enough to the original that they retain some herding instints and strong prey drive. But you never know if they have it or the right pieces of natural instinct and ability to be a useful working dog until you try them on sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 The breed as a rule is a working breed - there is not yet the huge split that you see in most other breeds. I don't agree with that, there's a huge split between working and show lines. But color isn't that much of a dertimining factor IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 That is patently not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I was told by the BC rescue person that if the body of a BC is predominantly white with red or black markings they have softer temperaments. How can someone determine if they have a Pet line or a Working line? You can determine a working line by seeing the parents work and understanding what you see. Some of the toughest dogs I've had/seen had a lot of white on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Myu opinion of that opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I don't agree with that, there's a huge split between working and show lines. But color isn't that much of a dertimining factor IMO. Yes, that's very true. But I'd venture to guess as a rule here in the US the majority of BCs have working dogs in their not to distant background. Overseas perhaps but here in the US they've only been conformation dogs for the past 15 or so years. And some of those breeders pride themselves on keeping working blood mixed in with their show dogs. I don't believe that so far there has not been many clearly established pet lines in the breed like there has with most other working breeds. But the waters are getting mudier and mudier as time passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhereinusa Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Yes, that's very true. But I'd venture to guess as a rule here in the US the majority of BCs have working dogs in their not to distant background. Overseas perhaps but here in the US they've only been conformation dogs for the past 15 or so years. And some of those breeders pride themselves on keeping working blood mixed in with their show dogs. I don't believe that so far there has not been many clearly established pet lines in the breed like there has with most other working breeds. But the waters are getting mudier and mudier as time passes. Just having working dogs in the not too distant background doesn't mean much to me. I have seen pups from a bitch that was a very good worker bred to a dog from a long line of agility dogs. None of the pups showed the slightest working ability or interest. EVER. I don't know about subsequent breedings of those pups. I had no further interest in them, I would guess that that somewhere down the line some would probably have worked to some degree, but what's the point. I currently have a dog that is 6 generations from my first Border Collie that was very well bred and one of the best I ever had, and while she has the desire, it's just not all there. The last three generations before her were agility. I am content to throw a frisbee for her and she is a great companion, but there is no livestock work in her future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Show me some genetics textbooks that say the term "double dilute" is correct and I will believe you. In the case of the champaign colored horse I would say double recessive is correct, but only one of the 2 genes behind that color affects dilution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Show me some genetics textbooks that say the term "double dilute" is correct and I will believe you. In the case of the champaign colored horse I would say double recessive is correct, but only one of the 2 genes behind that color affects dilution. I don't have genetics textbooks lying about - but I think I've demonstrated pretty conclusively that the term is in common usage, and not just by puppy millers and BYBs. Here's one more example. I'm done. I can lead a horse to water... Cream Dilution Description The cream dilution gene is one of several genes that will dilute the coat of a horse. Cream is a semi-dominant gene and has a dosage effect where a heterozygous (nCr), single dilute cream horse will show a lesser effect when compared to a homozygous (CrCr), double dilute cream horse. Horses which carry one copy of the cream gene are identified as Single dilutes; they are heterozygous for the cream dilution gene. In the simplest case, a bay horse with a single copy of cream is known as a buckskin, a single dilute black horse is known as a smoky black and a single dilute chestnut or sorrel horse is known as a palomino. Single dilute horses have a 50% chance on passing the cream gene on to its offspring. Horses which carry two copies of the cream gene are referred to as double dilutes; they are homozygous for the cream dilution gene. A bay horse with two copies of cream is known as a perlino, a black horse with two copies of cream is known as a smoky cream and a chestnut or sorrel horse that carries two copies of cream is known as a cremello. Double dilute horses will always pass on a copy of the cream gene to its foals. Cream dilution is caused by a gene mutation (in this case a SNP) in exon 2 of the MATP gene and subsequently, a genetic test has been developed that tests for the presence of this mutation. There are other genes that may have an effect similar to Cream dilution but will not be detected by this test. CrCr = Double dilute. Horse tested Homozygous for Cream Dilution (Two copies of the Cream allele). Chestnut is diluted to cremello, bay is diluted to perlino and black is diluted to smoky cream. These colors can be further modified by the actions of other genes. nCr = Dilute. Horse tested Heterozygous for Cream Dilution (One copy of the Cream allele). Chestnut is diluted to palomino; bay is diluted to buckskin and black is diluted to smoky black. These colors can be further modified by the actions of other genes. nn = Non-dilute. Horse tested negative for Cream Dilution. Basic colors are chestnut, bay, black or brown in the absence of other modifying genes. http://www.animalgenetics.us/Cream.htm Have a good evening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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