Izzysdad Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Tobey is still barking at dogs, so would I click even though he is barking at them? It's hard to keep him calm after he sees another dog. The way I read it you're clicking b/c the dog is looking at another dog even if he is barking. I feel I'm shaping to have him bark at other dogs. Thoughts? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 The dog should be "underthreshold" while playing the LAT game. A barking dog is overthreshold (i.e too excited, anxious or whatever) to play the game. If your dog reacts to another dog, simply do a 180 and remove him from the situation. Once you reach a distance where your dog is no longer bothered by the other dog, you can attempt to play the game using the other dog in the distance. However, your dog should already understand the rule structure. I introduced my dog to LAT using an empty soda can as a visual target in a quiet room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlasl Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Blackdawgs is exactly right. Does Toby understand the command "look at that" (or whatever you use) I use "Look" and they are suppose to look at whatever I am asking them to look at, at the time. After they will randomly look at whatever you are asking them to look at (you start with items that do not excite them), you should start with something more arousing, but always keep the dog under threshold, if they get worked up (barking, whining, too excited) you should back off and try again at a distance. It is a process, Good Luck. Carla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 What they said. When you start, if Toby is reacting to the other dog(s) in any way, you're too close. Start so far away that he doesn't even notice there's another dog, then move just close enough that he barely glances at the other dog. That's where you want to be when you're teaching him the concept of "look at it, then look back at me, then get a reward." Once he understands the game, you slowly move closer to the object of interest, but never so close that he can't play the game correctly. Your job is to learn what it takes to send him over threshold, and then always stay just short of that point (when you're training). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Ditto what they all said about threshold. I would add, too, that it could be helpful, before starting LAT in those situations, to do some mat work - far enough away for Toby to be under threshold. That will help you gague his relaxation level, and help him to understand that there are times when other dogs are present, but he need not concern himself with them. If you have the DVD, the open bar/close bar exercise that Leslie demonstrates as part of teaching mat work can be extremely helpful for this. Once you can do open bar/close bar and he can keep quiet, you might find LAT easier at that threshold level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzysdad Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks all! I did some go to mat exercises last night with him, and an exercise in which when he made eye contact he got clicked and treated. He has a habit of staring at my hand if it's closed b/c he thinks I have a treat, even if I don't Tomorrow I'm going to do some work with another handler in a large field, we'll if we've made progress. The funny thing is, he always knows if it's Izzy we're trying to use as bait, no mater how far/close he never barks at her. The two of them are like peas in a pod! I contacted a behavioral specialist in the area last week and they're only recomendation was a citronela (sp?) collar. I wasn't in love with the idea... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 As if someone's only recommendation would be a citronella collar. Sorry! I'd question the title of "behavior specialist". JMO though! Anyway, it's ok that you use Izzy, you WANT him to be under threshold (you don't want him barking) when you/he are learning these games. I would then find another dog that he is *ok* with to work with after that and then move up the ladder. Pam Dennison has a book called "How to right a dog gone wrong" and it has some REALLY good ideas for dealing with dog-dog issues, like parallel walking etc. I think I may have recommended it to you before.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelliePup Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I contacted a behavioral specialist in the area last week and they're only recomendation was a citronela (sp?) collar. I wasn't in love with the idea... Tim Sounds like a "trainer"in this area who has a Masters degree in Animal Behavior. This person has taken so many bully breeds with minor problems and turned them into mega-reactive dogs with his methods. I usually get them after he's done with them and I have to go through and undo everything he's done. Talk about a major headache. The really sad thing is that I don't have the "degree" or certifications (I'm almost completely self-taught and the only claim I have is that I spent some time down at Purdue), so people keep taking their dogs to him, but I understand that he has determined that bullies can't be trained and he doesn't allow them in his classes anymore. I suppose that's a good thing. We have another training center here that does the same thing and claims it's right because of years of experience and titles and ribbons...I wonder how many dogs failed their course. They call it "sucess" training; I call it abuse. Good luck with Tobey! You've gotten some excellent advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Well, I seem to have made huge progress with my pup through this issue by using the exercises in CU. I worked everyday at home and the backyard, on our street, on the trails. Working under threshold as much as possible. Sometimes I slipped up, but I have to say I am amazed at the results. I've documented what I did in the Barking thread and the gush update. It was hard to keep going when I hadn't counter conditioned or clicker trained before and I was throwing treats as my pup barked, but with a little support from a few posters on here I managed to breakthrough, so keep going, it'll get better. It did get worse with Colt just before the breakthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzysdad Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Oh I'll keep going, thanks all! He barks when we come home for a bit because he's excited, I forgot to mention that everytime he stops he gets clicked and treated, I started that yesterday when I got home and today he barked twice once he was out of his crate. Clicker training rules. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pammyd Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Its funny I have been doing LAT with Mia and she was really getting it She was in the vets last week (attacked by another dog, had to have a tooth removed) and of course she was a bit reactive every time a new dog walked into the waiting room I was trying to distract her with tricks and reward her when she calmed down She invented her own LAT, I was talking to the vet nurse when another dog came it, she barked then calmed down and looked to me so I rewarded her - then she started a little game of look over shoulder at any dog in the waiting room and give a wee growl - then look back at me for treat - so now we have - growl at me game - but she was so cute everyone in the waiting room was laughing - and she was below threshold just offering a new trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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