sea4th Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Sorry the photos suck. I didn't take them. They were sent to me. I'm curious to see responses. I'm at work now, but I'll let you in on the story tonight when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 GSD X BC ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracina Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I don't know too much about these things, but after seeing the pictures that Julie P. posted of her Ranger today, I'd venture to say that this one looks a bit "Larky" to me. Less white on the collar, but a close resemblance, IMO. I am going out on a limb and saying all border collie (or, at the very least, a VERY high mix w/ either GSD or kelpie, depending on the height/weight). The chest is a bit broad, and the stop is slightly severe, so that is confusing. Karrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I dunno, does he work sheep? All Border Collie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracina Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I dunno, does he work sheep? All Border Collie. So I guess if a kelpie works sheep, it is then a Border Collie? Are border collies the *only* breed that works sheep? I think that some might disagree. Just as there are working-bred border collies that don’t work sheep, there are also sheep that are worked by dogs that are not border collies. I don't think that the question is being asked in a desperate manner- (that is to say,it is not life or death here) and I am pretty sure that Vicki knows that a border collie should work sheep (ideally). I got the impression that she is being asked to either foster or rescue this dog (I could be wrong). I also got the impression that she just wants to get everyone's opinion on the looks of the dog first, because sometimes that is all that rescuers have to go on. I guess that I am just not sure what you are saying. Karrin ETA: It could just be the strange emoticons that you chose that are throwing me for a loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Karrin, I believe you took my reply as offensive? It wasn't meant to be. I am positive that Viki knows Border Collies should work sheep which is why my reply was meant jokingly. I said I believe its all Border Collie which is based only on the dogs keen expression and stance. And yes, Kelpie's work sheep and I am very aware of that. Did you know it is rumor that Kelpie breed found its name because of a smooth coated black and tan Border Collie bitch which was exported from the UK to Australia named 'Kelpie?' There are very few, if any, breeds in existence, other then the Border Collie and Kelpie, which I would consider capable of the sheep work I imply when talking work. Katelynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I wouldn't have argued if you just said he was border collie. Would help I guess to see him move, or a bigger picture, but nothing in his looks says he has to be a mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 This is a purebred bc bitch, not registered. Grandfather and g grandfather were dogs that ran in open and I know the G-grandfather did well. (G-grandfather was Pulfer's Tweed) The reason I'm posting this here is that her owner competes in ACK venues and in order to do so with this bitch, needs to have her ILP'd. She submitted these photos plus the fee. AKC declined her saying this is a mixed breed --- and kept the fee. All of it. This bitch works OK, but just OK. Still the owner wants to do something with her. Shot down by ACK. Because ---- they're the experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I was thinking coyote. Or lion..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well, you know, if you want to play AKC, you play by their rules. So she shouldn't be surprised that she got shot down for an ILP (or whatever the heck they call it now). I know a 40 lb. Borderjack that has his ILP. He looks like a giant Jack, and the owner didn't include any indications of scale in the photos so he got in just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracina Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I actually did take offense, Katelynn. I really thought that you were being snitty, and I am very bothered by those who make such limiting comments or implications. Now that you have said that you were joking, I hope that you will forgive me if I offended you with my response. Back to the story, and forgive me again if I am being moronic, but why does the owner not want to run USBCHA? I know that you said that her dog is only OK, but isn't that what novice and pro-novice are for- to gain experience and skill in order to compete in Open? Or is the owner only interested in AKC titles? Karrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Sure looks like border collie to me. But I'm partial to tri smooth coats so they catch my eye the quickest. As far as ACK not ILPing the dog... They did the owners a huge favor, they just haven't figured it out yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Back to the story, and forgive me again if I am being moronic, but why does the owner not want to run USBCHA? I know that you said that her dog is only OK, but isn't that what novice and pro-novice are for- to gain experience and skill in order to compete in Open? Or is the owner only interested in AKC titles? Karrin That is what Novice is for in the USBCHA trials but from the ACK dogs that I have seen work, that's all they would do is novice. The ACK "champion" titled dogs that I have seen I would say 99% of them would have a difficult time in pro/nov. So if the handler wants to do more than an outrun and fetching around a course (novice), an ACK B course would seem like the way to go... However, I will say that ACK is no where near working and supporting the evil empire is just plan silly when you own an ok working Border Collie. I would push them more towards AHBA type trials rather than ACK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 She doesn't need ACK to compete in stuff. There have been plenty of discussions about all the various venues for things - perhaps forward those links on to her? Or she could register her dog through the new mixed breed scheme ACK put out if she just can't live without competing in their stuff. (gag - sorry I think the mixed breed program is crap) eta - I just reread some of the prior posts - is she interested in ACK herding or other stuff like agility, obed., etc - I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Back to the story, and forgive me again if I am being moronic, but why does the owner not want to run USBCHA? I know that you said that her dog is only OK, but isn't that what novice and pro-novice are for- to gain experience and skill in order to compete in Open? Or is the owner only interested in AKC titles? My guess is that she wants to do non-stock work with her dog, and that AKC is either the only available venue, or the easiest one. "Working OK" may not even be "OK" enough to run N/N or P/N without retiring or DQ's all the time, and who wants to do that? She should have ILP'd her a GSD Probably would have made it. My friend here has an ILP'd Border Collie who is 80+ Lbs and looks more like a Bernese Mt Dog than a collie. They used his puppy picture (he's a shelter mutt) for the ILP He's dopey and slow, so no one really cares, besides they've mostly given up AKC events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I am guessing the owner of the dog does agility, tracking or obedience with her other dogs and wanted to do the same with this new dog, reasoning for the ILP. It seems most people do not ILP their dogs to do their "herding" in the AKC but for the other "sports" they offer. She could contact the BCSA and see if they can do something about it. I think I remember reading that they were reviewing a rejected dog's ILP and moved to pass it in their minutes but I'm not sure. Do they need photos to give full registration to ISDS or ABCA dogs? And do they deny those dogs on appearance alone as well or do they get a free pass because they are bringing in new and higher registration with their offspring? Katelynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Over the years I had mentioned that NE Ohio is a wasteland as far as USBCHA trials, trainers go. That hasn't changed. There is a lot of AKC-oriented activity. Cost is a factor for the owner of this bitch, so she's doing the best she can by her dogs. There is an all breed training facility in the area that everyone in NE Ohio goes to. This is within reasonable driving distance for a lot of people. This place also hosts not only AKC trials but AHBA trials and herding clinics. This is where she is able to go on a regular basis, so her dogs are doing something. The owner of the bitch would like to get her into agility. Not too long ago, she adopted a rescue bc, a saddle-backed tri boy, smooth-coat ( , who is starting to work quite well. She's wondering about getting him ILP'd. He looks like some sort of cross breed too. So I do believe she has approached BCSA about this situation. She's disgusted with ACK but sees other venues prohibitive for her - funds, geographically -- you get the picture. I told her, if they are not corgi-legged, bug-eyed, B&W with scads of coat, forget it. The man behind the green curtain has spoken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I was thinking coyote. Or lion..... Yeah I'm gonna go with lion. It really looks like a lion. Ergo, it must be a Jacob's Sheep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierMike Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Yeah I'm gonna go with lion. It really looks like a lion. Ergo, it must be a Jacob's Sheep! Nope, here's the lion .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Nope, here's the lion .... Oooooh. She (dare I guess the pronoun?) really is kind of lionesque! Gorgeous dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Apparently ACK (aka AKC) has never heard of smooth-coat Border Collies. But, to be honest, I would have been inclined to make the same error in presuming that this was a GSD-BC cross. The dog looks a lot like my Missy (except Missy's fur was black and white, and much longer), and she was a Belgian Sheepdog/BC cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierMike Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Oooooh. She (dare I guess the pronoun?) really is kind of lionesque! Gorgeous dog! This should go with the other thread goin' on now, Nope, he's all Boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Her smooth coated tri rescue bc was rejected as well --- 'cause he's a mixed breed. The owner offered to send in videos of both dogs working, so they could see body language, crouch, eye, etc. Reply? "We don't look at videos.". Maybe a dog who's not strung up by a martingale and set up in a show pose, can't possibly be purebred. I can't tell my friend what to do, but at this point, I don't think I have to. Years ago, she used to show other breeds in conformation. Then she got her first rescue border collie and that widened her horizons and opened her eyes. At this point, I think she's pretty disgusted with the ACK. I feel the flames of the fire under my butt being fanned to get me up off it and get my property fenced and put some sheep on it. Maybe it might be a small step out of the ACK box in NE Ohio. Don't know, but that flames getting hotter. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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