Six to Nine Months

[ejano]

Wednesday the pups reach the magical age of 6 months. What should I expect from them in terms of behavior and how should I approach their continued training? Several folks have indicated that they tend to lose their brains between six and nine months, then find them again. True? I had thought they would both be ready for a CGC test, but perhaps not???

 

We're making a little progress on the bird chasing, though the first thing they do when let out is scan the sky for birds -- but they will recall when I wave a piece of hot dog.

 

I'm holding of off the neutering for a few more months at least though this past week, I noticed some nasty quick exchanges between them that make me rethink that decision. Ladybug used to break them up, now she just backs the winner.

 

Liz

[Lizmo]

I never went through any horrid changes with Blaze during that time frame. He did go through a time of 'loosing his brain' but I can't for the life of me remeber what age that was (must have only been a short time ). You just keep working with them, enforcing rules that have been in place since they were young pups, and go about life with the attitude that it's only a short time frame that it will last.

 

About the snarky exchanges - nip it in the bud early and quickly. I've been through it. It's not fun to work through and it takes alot of work, but it can be done.

[Shetlander]

I think it varies from pup to pup. Quinn actually went from my worst puppy ever to the very best at around the 6 month mark. That was when I moved from very fond of him to besotted. He wasn't ready for the CGC at that point though. He had what I referred to as Irish Setter moments between the ages of 12 & 18 months where his brain would go into meltdown during training. I needed to learn his cues that he was headed there and stop training or take a break at class before got to that point.

 

As an aside, I would work on a recall that does not involve waiving food at them. I'm all for using treats as rewards but not as bribes. Do lots of training and build in distractions incrementally. Don't let them practice ignoring recalls or require that you show them the money before they'll obey.

[MaggieDog]

Most dogs will have some alien abductions of their brains between 7 and 10mo ime - Kes just turned 10mo and his is finally coming back a bit. I always tell my students to continue working with their dogs on the basics as normal, if not harder than usual, but don't be surprised if you have to go back and almost reteach something during one of the brain abductions.

[desertranger]

Same problem with Jin. He became a juvinile deliquint and I'm still working though it. I figure another month or two.

[ejano]

I think it varies from pup to pup. Quinn actually went from my worst puppy ever to the very best at around the 6 month mark. That was when I moved from very fond of him to besotted. He wasn't ready for the CGC at that point though. He had what I referred to as Irish Setter moments between the ages of 12 & 18 months where his brain would go into meltdown during training. I needed to learn his cues that he was headed there and stop training or take a break at class before got to that point.

 

As an aside, I would work on a recall that does not involve waiving food at them. I'm all for using treats as rewards but not as bribes. Do lots of training and build in distractions incrementally. Don't let them practice ignoring recalls or require that you show them the money before they'll obey.

 

A very good point re: the reward/bribe. Robin will do everything required for the CGC without a treat, except lie down. If I stare him right in the eye, he goes down without a treat, so I figure it some kind of dominance tussle and he has turned the treat into a bribe, or actually I have. I'm working on suspending his reliance on treats by not giving the treat every time and by not giving it so quickly after the behavior, substituting praise for the treat. Once he's down, he's very good at his stays, but he's one to quietly test you here and there. Brodie on the other hand, either obeys happily or openly defies with a smirk on his face. . He also works for hugs and huge praise. Doesn't care about treats.

 

Liz

[PSmitty]

Huh. Alex was an angel from 6-9 months. Then again, he might just be perfect.

 

He passed his CGC at 9 months, in fact.

[flyer]

Colt was blowing me off for the first time during his eighth month. I just upped the training bit. Started working with "Control Unleashed" techniques and he is perfect again at 10 mos.

[Root Beer]

Just keep in mind that their brains are still developing and there are a lot of pieces of information flying around in their brains and they might not always know how to piece it all together all the time - even when they did before!! They begin to look like adults during this time period, but mentally they are nowhere near adulthood.

 

The CGC test might be possible during that time, or you might find you need to be a little more patient. It just depends on the dog.

 

My advice - be patient and enjoy your dogs during this time. Some days they might seem to forget everything, but training is a process, not a once and done kind of thing. You have their whole lives ahead of you and sometimes it's very much worth recognizing that there are many things that are not "a ditch to die in". Time is one of the most precious gifts that you have with a young dog.

[Ooky]

Happy 6 months, Robin and Brodie! Where are the pictures??!

 

Odin went through a "terrible" phase at this time, but it was unclear how much was due to pain from his shoulder and the enforced crate rest and drugs, etc through some of the period. By terrible I mean diminished focus, and a general shift from being submissiv and shy to other dogs to a maniacally friendly dog who had to get at other dogs and jump on their heads. Also, he became less aware of his body and I had to reteach care with teeth, knees (respect my personal space!!), and redouble our efforts on training not to jump up on people. Leash pulling went from non-existant to intense. He had NEVER blown me off on anything, EVER, until about 6 months. Overall he never blew me off very much even during this period, but you can tell he developed the part of his brain that says, "my mom DOESN'T make all my decisions for me!! I could decide not to do what she said!" Which is, as far as I understand, a normal part of growing up. Now I have achieved my goal and he thinks that thought through to "...but if I do do what she says, it is fun and things work out better." Finally, and again this could be due to the OCD, but he was more hyper and prone to overstimulation from prey, motion, training, and external stimulus of all sorts during this period. He was still his sweet lovable self through it all, just sort of brainless at times - and a lot stonger and faster to boot.

 

I sound really complain-y but actually I loved him more and more through this period. Really, I thought he was SOO wonderful and sweet as a young puppy, but I felt like really started getting to know him at that teen age, and who he is as an individual. Not to say we didn't have some teenagey tantrums along the way.

 

As for the CGC, I WISH I had taken it at 5 months. Seriously, he would have passed with flying colors then. In the teen phase, manyof the meet-and-greet steps went to pot for a little wile, but we have those totally down now. But the brushing!!! I don't think I'll ever get him to pass because of the brushing. He allows it with absolutely no aggression, but he tries to get away from you before he allows it, and he acts like I spent about 3 months out of his first year mercilessly beating him with the thing rather than what I really did, which was get him used to it as a puppy on a nightly basis (he used to LOVE it! go figure) and then later trying to desensitize him with treats, etc. Now I no longer make a big fuss, he simply gets brushed twice a week or after a nasty bur-filled walk, but as soon as he sees it in my hand he immediately runs behind the coffee table or bed and hunkers like an air raid is happening. I have to take him by the collar and arrange him to somewhere I can get at all his parts. I just know if he saw a tester whip a brush out, he'd leave his stay and be on the other end of the room, in the corner, cowering.

[SoloRiver]

Jett's been pretty much perfect her entire life, other than the hormone-induced rage she experiences when in season (never again, yay). I wouldn't assume that anything untoward is going to happen.

[ejano]

Just keep in mind that their brains are still developing and there are a lot of pieces of information flying around in their brains and they might not always know how to piece it all together all the time - even when they did before!! They begin to look like adults during this time period, but mentally they are nowhere near adulthood.

 

The CGC test might be possible during that time, or you might find you need to be a little more patient. It just depends on the dog.

 

My advice - be patient and enjoy your dogs during this time. Some days they might seem to forget everything, but training is a process, not a once and done kind of thing. You have their whole lives ahead of you and sometimes it's very much worth recognizing that there are many things that are not "a ditch to die in". Time is one of the most precious gifts that you have with a young dog.

 

I think I'll pass on the CGC for awhile -- it is through the AKC club and their version of the test almost guarantees that any dog they like (has taken classes from them) will pass. I want to be sure the pups are solid good citizens and that takes more than a class or two. I'm worn out from their nonsense and can't wait for Brodie's class to be over.

 

I really am having a lot of fun with them now. The puppy stage kinda slipped past me because I was ill but now that I'm better and they've grown up a bit, there's so much more to do and learn and they seem to enjoy it too. It seemed that they just hit that growing and learning stage that I've been waiting for, so we will definitely have some fun and learn a little bit too!

 

Liz

[ejano]

I think it varies from pup to pup. Quinn actually went from my worst puppy ever to the very best at around the 6 month mark. That was when I moved from very fond of him to besotted. He wasn't ready for the CGC at that point though. He had what I referred to as Irish Setter moments between the ages of 12 & 18 months where his brain would go into meltdown during training. I needed to learn his cues that he was headed there and stop training or take a break at class before got to that point.

 

As an aside, I would work on a recall that does not involve waiving food at them. I'm all for using treats as rewards but not as bribes. Do lots of training and build in distractions incrementally. Don't let them practice ignoring recalls or require that you show them the money before they'll obey.

[ejano]

Happy 6 months, Robin and Brodie! Where are the pictures??!

 

Odin went through a "terrible" phase at this time, but it was unclear how much was due to pain from his shoulder and the enforced crate rest and drugs, etc through some of the period. By terrible I mean diminished focus, and a general shift from being submissiv and shy to other dogs to a maniacally friendly dog who had to get at other dogs and jump on their heads. Also, he became less aware of his body and I had to reteach care with teeth, knees (respect my personal space!!), and redouble our efforts on training not to jump up on people. Leash pulling went from non-existant to intense. He had NEVER blown me off on anything, EVER, until about 6 months. Overall he never blew me off very much even during this period, but you can tell he developed the part of his brain that says, "my mom DOESN'T make all my decisions for me!! I could decide not to do what she said!" Which is, as far as I understand, a normal part of growing up. Now I have achieved my goal and he thinks that thought through to "...but if I do do what she says, it is fun and things work out better." Finally, and again this could be due to the OCD, but he was more hyper and prone to overstimulation from prey, motion, training, and external stimulus of all sorts during this period. He was still his sweet lovable self through it all, just sort of brainless at times - and a lot stonger and faster to boot.

 

I sound really complain-y but actually I loved him more and more through this period. Really, I thought he was SOO wonderful and sweet as a young puppy, but I felt like really started getting to know him at that teen age, and who he is as an individual. Not to say we didn't have some teenagey tantrums along the way.

 

As for the CGC, I WISH I had taken it at 5 months. Seriously, he would have passed with flying colors then. In the teen phase, manyof the meet-and-greet steps went to pot for a little wile, but we have those totally down now. But the brushing!!! I don't think I'll ever get him to pass because of the brushing. He allows it with absolutely no aggression, but he tries to get away from you before he allows it, and he acts like I spent about 3 months out of his first year mercilessly beating him with the thing rather than what I really did, which was get him used to it as a puppy on a nightly basis (he used to LOVE it! go figure) and then later trying to desensitize him with treats, etc. Now I no longer make a big fuss, he simply gets brushed twice a week or after a nasty bur-filled walk, but as soon as he sees it in my hand he immediately runs behind the coffee table or bed and hunkers like an air raid is happening. I have to take him by the collar and arrange him to somewhere I can get at all his parts. I just know if he saw a tester whip a brush out, he'd leave his stay and be on the other end of the room, in the corner, cowering.

 

HEre's Brodie at five months. He was the one with those funny white circles around his shoulders and hips and the big black target on his butt when he was a pup. He's actually growing to be a handsome pup as his coat fills in. He's a lighter framed dog than his brother and stretches out like a cougar when he runs. Robin at the same age is in the avatar. I need to take another picture, they both look more noble now, especially Robin. His face has always looked a bit goofy to me dead on -- his profile is much better >.

[Lizmo]

Are your two pups litter mates? They're very cute!

[SoloRiver]

You're very wrong about the CGC. It's not as easy to pass as you think it is, and although it is an AKC program I think it is a worthwhile program that encourages socialization and training skills -- does not require AKC registration either. Having a CGC can be crucially important for things like renting an apartment or proving that your dog is trustworthy in public. Solo passed the CGC test and despite having everyone at the training club totally on our side, let me tell you, it was not easy. You better bet I include that CGC on his doggie CV!

[Shetlander]

You're very wrong about the CGC. It's not as easy to pass as you think it is, and although it is an AKC program I think it is a worthwhile program that encourages socialization and training skills -- does not require AKC registration either.

 

I agree that the CGC is a neat program and for some dogs very difficult to pass. Now, if you have a mellow, happy, never met a stranger, seems to have natural manners kind of dog, CGC is indeed a snap. But in my experience, if your dog has fear or aggression issues, take my word, a Novice Obedience title is much easier to accomplish. And of course if he is simply a young and foolish puppy, training is a must for either the Novice title or CGC.

[Ooky]

I was told in my CGC class that how hard it really is to pass depends greatly on the individual tester and to some degree the venue you test at (some have multiple tests going on at once, and if your dog has a diffcult time holding it together for the loud noise once, hearing it going on all around could be even worse).

 

I just can't believe we may be permanently stymied by brushing. I love grooming my animals and you better believe I did everything to desensitize him. And for what the test is supposed to show-- that you can safely and easily do things to your dog's body-- Odin is excellent. Once you get going. Even though he hates it, once it's happening he stays still and still responds to commands to "stand" etc. But if you don't hang onto him before you pick the brush up, he will attempt to escape, which would be an automatic fail, I think. I'll probably still give it a go someday for the reasons Melanie mentioned, when I'm well prepared to throw away the money.

[BustopherJones]

Same problem with Jin. He became a juvinile deliquint and I'm still working though it. I figure another month or two.

Same with Annie, except she is now 5 years old, and I'm hoping that she resolves the issue sometime in the next decade.

 

Incidentally, Ranger, when are you going to lear to spell Gin's name correctly?

[elegy]

I agree that the CGC is a neat program and for some dogs very difficult to pass. Now, if you have a mellow, happy, never met a stranger, seems to have natural manners kind of dog, CGC is indeed a snap. But in my experience, if your dog has fear or aggression issues, take my word, a Novice Obedience title is much easier to accomplish. And of course if he is simply a young and foolish puppy, training is a must for either the Novice title or CGC.

 

My male pit bull has taken and failed the CGC test twice because he cannot deal with the supervised separation. It's really very frustrating. We worked on long down stays and out of sight stays, but when test time came around again, he still got upset.

 

I'll probably take it with puppy Steve eventually, but he, too, seems to be getting perturbed about separation.

[Shetlander]

This may be going off topic, but I feel compelled to say that I love adolescent dogs. Give me an 8 month old over an 8 week old any day. 6 months is when I really start to have fun with my puppies and I don't find them at all challenging as long as I keep their developmental issues in mind. Maybe I'm alone on this.

[Root Beer]

This may be going off topic, but I feel compelled to say that I love adolescent dogs. Give me an 8 month old over an 8 week old any day. 6 months is when I really start to have fun with my puppies and I don't find them at all challenging as long as I keep their developmental issues in mind. Maybe I'm alone on this.

 

I feel the exact same way.

 

I had an absolute blast with Dean and he was a triple challenge - a very smart, strong adolescent whose developing brain was a confusing mess sometimes, a dog who had been surrendered to rescue at 8 months and then adopted (by us) at 10 months, and a dog who had zero foundation in house manners, focus, self control, etc., or any kind of training.

 

There were times when my patience was pushed and he was absolutely exhausting.

 

But now that he is past all of that and he's everything I could want in a dog, I kind of miss that wild child Dean Dog!!

 

I don't plan to adopt an adolescent every single time I add a dog to our household, but I will absolutely do it again. I love "teenage" Border Collies - even more than puppies.

[MaggieDog]

Me three. Adolescence is such a great time to take advantage of a developing brain. Adolescents often have the most personality and inquisitiveness at that time, which is one reason i think they can be hard for some people to deal with.

[ejano]

Are your two pups litter mates? They're very cute!

Yes, they're from the same litter...Robin appears to take after his grandsire, a heavier big boned dog. Brodie looks and moves like his mother, a lighter boned dog, but a real worker. One of her jobs is to round up the chickens every night and she seems to be counting them because she'll bring a bunch around then go round up the missing ones. .

 

They're alot of fun and having them so different looking with different personalities is really teaching us a great deal.

 

Liz

[ejano]

This may be going off topic, but I feel compelled to say that I love adolescent dogs. Give me an 8 month old over an 8 week old any day. 6 months is when I really start to have fun with my puppies and I don't find them at all challenging as long as I keep their developmental issues in mind. Maybe I'm alone on this.

 

I feel that way myself -- about puppies and human babies . THe little ones are very cute and cuddly, but when they get to the point where you can really interact with them, that's when the fun begins. I'm enjoying working with Robin and Brodie these days and seeing how much they've learned so far and what they're capable of learning. Their different personalities and the way they respond to training is interesting as well. I line all three of them up (Ladybug included) and go down the line asking "paw" "other paw" and it was amazing how quickly they learned the thing I didn't teach them, that the first one in line gets the first treat....I tried outsmarting them by working backwards and then they all started jockying the other way. It's also interesting to see who is "left" pawed and who is right pawed...that is, which paw the dog offers most willingly. I wonder if this connects to which way the working dog naturally circles?

 

Liz