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So what happened to Orson?

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What a self centered, egotistical, arrogant ass. He whines, double speaks and doesn't ever really fess up to what is really on his mind. Not that I have anything against Shamans and spirit guides, but what did he expect, clairvoyant answers to his deeply emotional delimits. Then he seems blames his Shaman friend to boot. This article gave me the shivers, I can't quite put my finger on it but something is very wrong with him. At least that's how I feel from reading this.

 

The most expensive certified veterinary behaviorist on the planet would have cost Katz maybe $300, and that's for an appointment that in my experience lasts hours, involves tons of observation, discussion and advice, often includes at least a preliminary medical workup (at Solo's first appointment, his vitals were checked and a blood sample was taken), results in a detailed treatment plan including behavioral modification exercises and a prescription for behavioral meds if warranted, and allows for many many follow-up phone calls and/or emails for ongoing support.
The above about sums it up perfectly, the jerk didn't try very hard. I'm sure it would have been a book of it's own if he had. I hope he has some good explanations for his "spirit future" he's going to need them as far as I can tell.

Andrea D.

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>

 

Yeah. His last book before this one was entitled Katz on Dogs: A Commonsense Guide to Training and Living with Dogs. What it is that qualifies him to offer such guidance -- given his dismal record with both training them and living with them -- is beyond me.

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Hi, i'm new to this forum. I found it because of this thread. I have been reading "The Dogs of Bedlam Farm" for a week now, and was suprised when I read Katz' words "I love my dogs dearly, but not as much as I love my books." Or something along those lines. The thought then occured to me, "I wonder if he would ever intentionaly look for a way for one of his dogs to die, for the purpose of an emotional ending to one of his books." So, I researched him online and of course found his website, bedlamfarm.com

 

I was shocked to see niether Orson or Homer on his farm anymore, only rose and a couple of new dogs. So, I researched yet further and found this place. I've read everything all of you said, and much to my horor, my theory appeared to be right. :D:D

 

I cannot believe he would let poor Orson down like that. 8 years "old"...?! That's only 57% of a Border Collie's life expectancy. That is not old, that is young. I am utterly heartbroken, just heartbroken. I came to love Orson almost immidiatly in the story, and I did respect Jon, until he made the comment about loving his books more than his dogs, whom he claimed to "love dearly"....right... :rolleyes:

 

I realize i am preaching to the quoir here, and presenting no new thoughts on the matter, but I wanted to vent nonetheless, and you guys apparantly have the same thought as I do.

 

Why the heck didn't he try a behavioralist? Hell, it would have boosted his book sales to call Cesar Milan even, feature him in the next book, and get some TV publicity on "The Dog Wisperer". Jon Grogan - author of "Marley and Me" - did it, he was on The Dog Wisperer with his new yellow lab, who was almost as bad as Marley.

 

This prideful murderer has broken too many hearts, dissapointed too many dogs, claimed too much undeserved status, and earned (in my opinion) a nice bunk in Michael Vick's jail cell, for dog killers.

 

Sorry for any misspellings, I am frustrated and typing in a rush.

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I was reading one of his books and after reading a lot of threads on here about him, I stopped reading right in the middle. Haven't picked it up since. Unfortunately, I bought the book before I knew he was a piece of garbage, so my money went into that crook's pocket. :rolleyes:

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I was reading one of his books and after reading a lot of threads on here about him, I stopped reading right in the middle. Haven't picked it up since. Unfortunately, I bought the book before I knew he was a piece of garbage, so my money went into that crook's pocket. :rolleyes:

 

Well, fortunatly for me, I bought mine used, for $0.01, ut payed $3 shipping. At least the chunk of my change went to a shipping company, and only a cent went to fund the destruction of more dogs...

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Call it ignorance, but other than not seeing a behavorist for Orson's problems, what was wrong with him putting the dog down? Seems I remember reading a thread a while back about a dog that had bitten his owner, and the only solution alot of people were telling the owner was to put the dog down.

 

I agree though, his book is a bunch of whining and complaining. :rolleyes:

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The problem is that he did not even consider correcting the behavioral issues - bite issue. He only saw different options that stipulated the behavioral problems couldn't possible be fixed. He wrote the decision off as, "oh, Orson is 8, that's too old to fix." BS - any dog can be helped to overcome behavioral problems, Katz took the easy way out, the way that required no work. That's fine and all, but when you combine it with the fact that he stated he loved his books more than his dogs, and that Orson's death made for an emotional climax to a book that was sure to rake in big bucks because of it...that's where the problem is manifested.

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To some that up, based off of his own words, Katz loved his books enough to kill off a main charecter for a good ending, and a lot of money. Problem is, that main charecter was real, and he really killed him for the sake of the flipping book.

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Katz lives on a farm, for Christ's sake. The entire time I've had Solo, I've lived in a major metropolitan area. If I can keep Solo out of trouble in the middle of the city, he could certainly keep Orson out of trouble out there in the country. And he couldn't be bothered to use a little bit of his money (earned on Orson's back, no less) to find out how to treat his dog? To at least try? I couldn't be more disgusted. What a heartless bastard.

 

EXACTLY!!!

 

I just can't believe it.

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I dislike Katz just as much as I dislike the author of "Marley and Me". The Marley book has more detail than the movie. Marley clearly had separation anxiety and thunder phobia, but is labled a bad dog. Katz exercised Orson by letting him fence run cars along highways, but goes balistic when Orson goes after a bus. I could go on and on about both authors, but what really bothers me is that these books can be found in the "dog training section" of the library. These 2 authors have become dog authorities because of their books, so they are misguiding the general public.

 

BTW, what happened to Orson's breeder? I can't believe she begged this man to take this dog, and then placed more of her dogs in his home. At least this book is an advertisement to not use her as a breeder.

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Well, I dissagree about the author of Marley and Me. He clearly states that he is no dog expert. He did seek training and behavioral help, and he and his wife held down jobs that didn't allow them to spend a lot of time helping him. True, he is still at fault for Marley's problems, but he did try, and he did do what he could with the time he had. Katz' "full time job" was to hang out all day with his dogs on the farm, so there's no excuse for not having all the time in the world to fix his problems. Marley was put down because he got sick, very sick, was suffering immensly, and would have died naturaly. Katz killed Orson to make a better story, and made up some lame excuses.

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Well, I dissagree about the author of Marley and Me. He clearly states that he is no dog expert. He did seek training and behavioral help, and he and his wife held down jobs that didn't allow them to spend a lot of time helping him. True, he is still at fault for Marley's problems, but he did try, and he did do what he could with the time he had. Katz' "full time job" was to hang out all day with his dogs on the farm, so there's no excuse for not having all the time in the world to fix his problems. Marley was put down because he got sick, very sick, was suffering immensly, and would have died naturaly. Katz killed Orson to make a better story, and made up some lame excuses.

----------------

Good Point. On the other hand, the author of "Marley" also recognizes Katz as a respected writer and dog expert. And as an owner of a 9 y/o lab, I'm also very sensitive about the destruction of the Labrador Retriever. What I fear is that dog owners will read these books and feel that their dog's behavior is hopeless.

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----------------

Good Point. On the other hand, the author of "Marley" also recognizes Katz as a respected writer and dog expert. And as an owner of a 9 y/o lab, I'm also very sensitive about the destruction of the Labrador Retriever. What I fear is that dog owners will read these books and feel that their dog's behavior is hopeless.

 

Ah. True. These books - especialy Katz' - should come with a disclaimer that reads something like this.

 

"WARNING - My dogs were put down for my reasons - namely, laziness, ignorance, selfishness, greed, stupidity, shamelessness, etc - and my example should not be taken as a suggestion for standard actions. Most dog owners would have persevered through what I gave up on so easily, and I hope my readers do not give up on their dogs and assume destruction is the cure-all for a confused and untrained dog."

 

:rolleyes:

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Why wouldn't a basket muzzle have worked for that unfortunate dog? Or like Eileen mentioned long ago, why couldn't he put the dog up when folks drove or walked onto his property if he was there all the time hanging out with his dogs.

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Why wouldn't a basket muzzle have worked for that unfortunate dog? Or like Eileen mentioned long ago, why couldn't he put the dog up when folks drove or walked onto his property if he was there all the time hanging out with his dogs.

 

Because destroying Orson provided the sad conclusion to his book, and as mentioned previously, Katz admitted to loving his books more than his dogs.

 

So, if you can either have a best selling book or a living dog, one or the other but not both, and you love your book more, which are you gonna chose?

 

He chose to kill the dog for his book, IN MY OPINION, and made a whole bunch of money - as expected - from it.

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Why wouldn't a basket muzzle have worked for that unfortunate dog? Or like Eileen mentioned long ago, why couldn't he put the dog up when folks drove or walked onto his property if he was there all the time hanging out with his dogs.

 

That is the real question. Why didn't he manage his dog better? It's been a while since I read his account of Orson's behavior and I never met the dog, so I'll skip trying to say how disturbed Orson was. What bugged me most was Katz refused to admit there was another option which was better management. Shoot, any management would have been great. Instead of expecting Orson to act like one of his fat, dimwitted labs happy to lay in the yard and watch people tromping in and out on a regular basis. It wasn't a matter of caging the dog in at all time, just putting him away when people were coming over and not leaving him out in the front freaking yard unsupervised.

 

My Lhasa is lovely 19 times out of 20 with people he doesn't know. I treat every meeting as if it is the 20th time when he might think he has the right to tell people to get out of his way. He is not left to greet people on his own or expected to have Quinn's sweet personality with strangers. He is crated (he runs happily to his crate when I give him that command) if I don't have time to manage him and I know people are going to be around. And I continue to reinforce his good behavior each and every time he behaves himself nicely. It's called management (and training of course) for a less than perfect dog.

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That is the real question. Why didn't he manage his dog better? It's been a while since I read his account of Orson's behavior and I never met the dog, so I'll skip trying to say how disturbed Orson was. What bugged me most was Katz refused to admit there was another option which was better management. Shoot, any management would have been great. Instead of expecting Orson to act like one of his fat, dimwitted labs happy to lay in the yard and watch people tromping in and out on a regular basis. It wasn't a matter of caging the dog in at all time, just putting him away when people were coming over and not leaving him out in the front freaking yard unsupervised.

 

 

Hello all,

Been awhile since I have been on here. I am happy to say I am blessed with a wonderful BC rescue and we are currently

attending Agility Trials and getting Q's!! Awesome experience for a first timer. More about that later.

 

I have a very heavy heart as I write this as I don't know what I can do to help a friend out who has a Sheltie.

The situation reminded me of John Katz's book and the posts I read here sometime back. I could not finish the

book personally, and I will never quite understand why John did what he did, except that now my friend is in

a similiar situation. The difference is this dog does not bite strangers, in fact it could not be nicer to them,

this dog bites his wife! many times now! and does real damage to the hand!

 

He has tried unsuccessfully to find someone to take the dog, as you can imagine, a dog that bites his owner is not

exactly considered a good companion. I beleive the dog will be put down next week.

 

My question is two part, 1. is there any place out there that is willing to take a chance on this type of dog?

Rescue's and such will not.

and

2. Is there some way to determine if the dog has a 'mental illness' if it bites only the people who it lives with?

I feel that the issue is training (lack of it) personally.

Am I correct? Or, Are there "hopeless cases" in the dog world??

 

Any advise you can give would be grateful. There may be no way to divert this sad situation. But if there is

anyone out there that has the resouces that could save his life, I would love to hear from you.

 

Thank you,

Pia

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Pia, you might take a look at this recent thread. It's very long, but you'll probably know within a few pages if the situation is similar to the one you're writing about. If it is, reading the whole thread could be helpful, and the OP of that thread (pansmom) is still posting about Pan's progress. If you feel the situation isn't similar, can you tell us more about what circumstances cause the dog to bite, its background, how it relates to other members of the family, etc.?

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You know...if he really has 110 acres that sure is a lot of room to spread a body....I hope the dog comes back as a wolf and tears him apart.

 

Tim

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Pia, you might take a look at this recent thread. It's very long, but you'll probably know within a few pages if the situation is similar to the one you're writing about. If it is, reading the whole thread could be helpful, and the OP of that thread (pansmom) is still posting about Pan's progress. If you feel the situation isn't similar, can you tell us more about what circumstances cause the dog to bite, its background, how it relates to other members of the family, etc.?

 

HI,

thanks for directing me to other board areas to assess my friends issues. In the process I read some other posts and find that all the things that have gone through my mind are being discussed here.

First let me say God Bless Pansmom, and I say a prayer for them!

 

I feel that my friends dog may have heritary issues coming from a local pet store, (first mistake), but we will never know what the issues with the parents were. I did read one poster who had to resort to PTS, and it is very possible that this dog has simuliar issues. Provoked to bite for what seems no reason. The last incident on Sunday was when the couple was sitting in the living room and the wife went to slap a bug on her leg, the dog saw this motion and attacked her hand, of course biting hard enough to draw blood once again.

 

Some of the methods discussed to train this dog have been tried, a blood test was done, and the vet did not find anything abnormal. My friend has made progress with the dog, orginially the dog was biting him too, but is not now, the wife however is another story. It would appear that the wife's disappointment in this puppy from early on, for a reason I totally am in disgust about (why on earth does anyone get a dog to replace a dog who has passed on and think they will behave in the same exact fashion as the departed dog, EVEN IF, it is the same breed???)

This I think has put Bad Blood between the dog and wife. I will never know what started the dog to act in this fashion, I believe fear aggression is a major factor. Another thing that has happened is the Alpha factor, human vrs dog, who is in control. It seems that this stuggle started early on. THe dog has some OCD issues I believe, like jumping at the door and biting the door knob when people leave or he sees people or dogs outside. This dog will raise his lips and bare his teeth whenever he is asked to do something he don't want to do. He had possessive issues over food and anything that hit the floor that has improved somewhat.

 

 

At any rate, I thank the person who gave me the tip on the yahoo aggression group. I will pass it on.

 

I feel that they must make this decision and live with it, and I also feel that alot of us on these boards, me included, would work our tails off not to have to put a dog down. Frankly, maybe the reason I thought of this board and this post about Katz in particular, is I feel the wife will not devote the time needed to fix this problem to spare the dogs life. And true she does have some of her own health problems, but not to the point she could not try to make it work with the right Animal Bahaviourist. Katz was surely wrong to not find a workable solution other then PTS on a farm with so much room and options. We are all not that lucky, you have real people right here, living in towns, who are desperate to make it work. We are not writting books about it to make money we just want a normal life with a normal dog.

 

I thank you all for your input. If I pass on anything that would save this dogs life, I will post back.

 

Pia

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My guess is that Katz's advance on his latest book was (at least) in the mid tens of 1000s, so why he couldn't spend some of that figuring out what might have been a curable medical issue baffles me.

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My guess is that Katz's advance on his latest book was (at least) in the mid tens of 1000s, so why he couldn't spend some of that figuring out what might have been a curable medical issue baffles me.

 

Given that he earned most of his sizable wealth from his stories of Orson. Poor Orson. Exploited until the end.

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Update on subject I brought to this board:

I am sorry to say the Sheltie has been PTS, however, not until all efforts to find another home were exhausted.

A vet tech offered to take the dog and find it a home, however within 24 hours the dog was returned to my friend as

there were several attempted attacks to the vet tech. It appears the dog was suffering from some type of illness, and even

blood tests did not make this known. It is suspected the likes of Bipolar disorder is possible. As I am saddened by the outcome, I do realize that sometimes we must make hard decisions in life to protect the people we love. As the vet told the couple, other person waited too long to make the decision and the unfortunate result was 200+ stitches to a person's face.

 

Thank you all posters for taking me to threads that looked deeper into this type of situation and expecially to the dear soul who posted that after they choose this route they, found out all the other litters pups were effected also. We will never know

if this pups siblings were also effected.

 

Bless all of you who work with difficult dogs and have success, however, this story was not one of them.

(Katz on the other hand, could have been, IMO)

Pia

 

HI,

thanks for directing me to other board areas to assess my friends issues. In the process I read some other posts and find that all the things that have gone through my mind are being discussed here.

First let me say God Bless Pansmom, and I say a prayer for them!

 

I feel that my friends dog may have heritary issues coming from a local pet store, (first mistake), but we will never know what the issues with the parents were. I did read one poster who had to resort to PTS, and it is very possible that this dog has simuliar issues. Provoked to bite for what seems no reason. The last incident on Sunday was when the couple was sitting in the living room and the wife went to slap a bug on her leg, the dog saw this motion and attacked her hand, of course biting hard enough to draw blood once again.

 

Some of the methods discussed to train this dog have been tried, a blood test was done, and the vet did not find anything abnormal. My friend has made progress with the dog, orginially the dog was biting him too, but is not now, the wife however is another story. It would appear that the wife's disappointment in this puppy from early on, for a reason I totally am in disgust about (why on earth does anyone get a dog to replace a dog who has passed on and think they will behave in the same exact fashion as the departed dog, EVEN IF, it is the same breed???)

This I think has put Bad Blood between the dog and wife. I will never know what started the dog to act in this fashion, I believe fear aggression is a major factor. Another thing that has happened is the Alpha factor, human vrs dog, who is in control. It seems that this stuggle started early on. THe dog has some OCD issues I believe, like jumping at the door and biting the door knob when people leave or he sees people or dogs outside. This dog will raise his lips and bare his teeth whenever he is asked to do something he don't want to do. He had possessive issues over food and anything that hit the floor that has improved somewhat.

At any rate, I thank the person who gave me the tip on the yahoo aggression group. I will pass it on.

 

I feel that they must make this decision and live with it, and I also feel that alot of us on these boards, me included, would work our tails off not to have to put a dog down. Frankly, maybe the reason I thought of this board and this post about Katz in particular, is I feel the wife will not devote the time needed to fix this problem to spare the dogs life. And true she does have some of her own health problems, but not to the point she could not try to make it work with the right Animal Bahaviourist. Katz was surely wrong to not find a workable solution other then PTS on a farm with so much room and options. We are all not that lucky, you have real people right here, living in towns, who are desperate to make it work. We are not writting books about it to make money we just want a normal life with a normal dog.

 

I thank you all for your input. If I pass on anything that would save this dogs life, I will post back.

 

Pia

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So sad.

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So sad.

 

Assuming he made the right choice...why would you go on book tours and interviews and relive this awful experience? Its almost like he is flaunting Orson's death. And to have the eyes/face of dog he put down on the front cover of the book is just cruel.

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