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Nancy Bovee

about the stop

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Hi, I thought this deserved its own topic. Getting a stop on my dog has been the best advice I've had from good trainers. But it's not easy. I've trained my dog not to stop because of his personality and the situations we faced (I don't have a great choice of sheep or fields). I have never figured out how to enforce a stop when the dog is on the other side of the sheep. My difficult dog will stop when we are on the same side (when he is driving) but not on a fetch. He always comes in too close, and the sheep are aggitated or moving past me. So, when I ask for the down and move towards him to enforce it, he sees the sheep moving and takes off to regather. Ask, repeat, lather.... I'm sure he sees it as a game he can win if he just runs even faster. I've never figured out how to use a line from this angle. If I try to use a corner he will blast past me when I try to block him. I'm not sure I'll ever get it on this dog, but I sure don't want this again (I have a seeminly endless row to hoe), but I have yet to have anyone explain to me how to enforce a stop, when the rewards of not stopping for the dog are so easy to implement.

 

"It is your responsibility, as a trainer, to teach the dog to stop properly. So, from this day on, your dog is not allowed to take one pace more after he has been told to stop. With aggressive dogs, I like them to stop both on their belly and on their feet, so it would be wise right now to get him on his belly and later on teach him to stand. The reason for this is that he has less presence on his belly than on his feet and we have to soften things up here in order to manage the sheep properly. Listen very closely as I want to emphasize emphatically that this dog has to stop NOW!!!! If you tell him to stop and he takes 4 more steps he is in the wrong place and so are the sheep. Get after him by going toward him in an assertive manner ( a little anger helps also in these cases, but don't stay angry) When you get to him chastise him in your own way and make sure he's ashamed of what he has done by not obeying you and take him back where you told him to lie down, tell him "LIE DOWN" in a firm sharp voice and go back to where you were and complete your gather making sure you use enough firmness in your voice to ensure that he lies down when told right now! Don't lower your expectations of the dog lying down every time it is told. This is the most important command in the book for the owner of this type of dog. If you can't stop him, you can't run him! It's not going to happen overnight but it will happen if you want it to. If the dog needs a little more firmness to get the required results, when you get out to him, pick him up by the collar, chastising him, take him back where you told him to lie down and again "LIE DOWN"! in your firmest voice and carry on with your training. If you are diligent with this you will have your dog stopping in about 3 or 4 days. If you let him get away without stopping every time you will have a long road to hoe. Once you get the stop on this dog, things will be much more pleasant and you can carry on with training your dog to change his manner in his approach to his stock. Get the stop first and then we'll go on with the rest. Until you have the stop nothing else will change. You must be the master. This doesn't mean you have to be a tyrant. It just means that you have to be in charge. If you find yourself yelling at the dog a lot to get your point across, don't worry about. You'll be able to stop yelling when the dog does as he's told. On the other hand, don't keep yelling at him over and over and do nothing about it. If he's not on his belly after the first or second command you better going out to him as fast as possible so he knows you will back up your commands. They catch on pretty quick to those folks who just keep talking and don't enforce their commands."

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Hi, I thought this deserved its own topic. Getting a stop on my dog has been the best advice I've had from good trainers. But it's not easy. I've trained my dog not to stop because of his personality and the situations we faced (I don't have a great choice of sheep or fields). I have never figured out how to enforce a stop when the dog is on the other side of the sheep. My difficult dog will stop when we are on the same side (when he is driving) but not on a fetch. He always comes in too close, and the sheep are aggitated or moving past me. So, when I ask for the down and move towards him to enforce it, he sees the sheep moving and takes off to regather. Ask, repeat, lather.... I'm sure he sees it as a game he can win if he just runs even faster. I've never figured out how to use a line from this angle. If I try to use a corner he will blast past me when I try to block him. I'm not sure I'll ever get it on this dog, but I sure don't want this again (I have a seeminly endless row to hoe), but I have yet to have anyone explain to me how to enforce a stop, when the rewards of not stopping for the dog are so easy to implement.

 

Hi Nancy. I sense your frustration in your reply and I'll deal with each thing individually:

 

1) I have never figured out how to enforce a stop when the dog is on the other side of the sheep. My difficult dog will stop when we are on the same side (when he is driving) but not on a fetch. He always comes in too close, and the sheep are aggitated or moving past me. So, when I ask for the down and move towards him to enforce it, he sees the sheep moving and takes off to regather. Ask, repeat, lather.... I'm sure he sees it as a game he can win if he just runs even faster. I've never figured out how to use a line from this angle.

 

Answer: Leave the line dragging on the ground while you work this dog. When he is fetching sheep to you and you want him to down, do not "ASK" ; "TELL" him to lie down. You know that he is not going to listen to you asking him to lie down from experience so don't keep doing it expecting a different result. You need to get more force into your command to let him know you are there. When you want him to lie down hold up your hand and go running at him right through the sheep so that you surprise him with your authority. Keep telling him in a firm manner to lie down and if he keeps on pushing the sheep grab hold of your line and get him to you and take him back where he was told to lie down and firmly make him lie down and tell him to stay while you go back on the other side of the sheep and get him to do it right. You can read my other post to the girl with the Aussie today. It appears that I have been dealing with a lot of dogs that will not stop since I came on here as the "expert" but I am adamant that you cannot run a dog that you cannot stop. I tell all my students that if they can't save their dog's life by being able to stop them when needed then they are not being fair to their dog. The stop, especially on keen strong dogs is the most important command in the book and you won't make any progress without it. Have fun with your dog but make him do as he's told. Be in control but not controlling! Bob

 

"It is your responsibility, as a trainer, to teach the dog to stop properly. So, from this day on, your dog is not allowed to take one pace more after he has been told to stop. With aggressive dogs, I like them to stop both on their belly and on their feet, so it would be wise right now to get him on his belly and later on teach him to stand. The reason for this is that he has less presence on his belly than on his feet and we have to soften things up here in order to manage the sheep properly. Listen very closely as I want to emphasize emphatically that this dog has to stop NOW!!!! If you tell him to stop and he takes 4 more steps he is in the wrong place and so are the sheep. Get after him by going toward him in an assertive manner ( a little anger helps also in these cases, but don't stay angry) When you get to him chastise him in your own way and make sure he's ashamed of what he has done by not obeying you and take him back where you told him to lie down, tell him "LIE DOWN" in a firm sharp voice and go back to where you were and complete your gather making sure you use enough firmness in your voice to ensure that he lies down when told right now! Don't lower your expectations of the dog lying down every time it is told. This is the most important command in the book for the owner of this type of dog. If you can't stop him, you can't run him! It's not going to happen overnight but it will happen if you want it to. If the dog needs a little more firmness to get the required results, when you get out to him, pick him up by the collar, chastising him, take him back where you told him to lie down and again "LIE DOWN"! in your firmest voice and carry on with your training. If you are diligent with this you will have your dog stopping in about 3 or 4 days. If you let him get away without stopping every time you will have a long road to hoe. Once you get the stop on this dog, things will be much more pleasant and you can carry on with training your dog to change his manner in his approach to his stock. Get the stop first and then we'll go on with the rest. Until you have the stop nothing else will change. You must be the master. This doesn't mean you have to be a tyrant. It just means that you have to be in charge. If you find yourself yelling at the dog a lot to get your point across, don't worry about. You'll be able to stop yelling when the dog does as he's told. On the other hand, don't keep yelling at him over and over and do nothing about it. If he's not on his belly after the first or second command you better going out to him as fast as possible so he knows you will back up your commands. They catch on pretty quick to those folks who just keep talking and don't enforce their commands."

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