Jump to content
BC Boards
Journey

Liability

Recommended Posts

Eileen, if this belongs somewhere else please move it, I couldn't figure out where to ask this!

 

OK, I have never seen a waiver of liability or signed one for people that come out to just work their dogs, that I can remember. About a month ago we had a situation here with a visitor, digest version is no one got seriously hurt, fence can be fixed and sheep is all right now. However, it made me start thinking and wondering about liability release forms. Does anyone use one? Is there a generic one in cyberspace I can modify to suit purposes here? I can't believe I am thinking I have to go there, this was not a bad dog but a bad owner who refused to follow instructions (no I was not the instructor!!) that caused damage, but I am not sure how to go forward, a little gun shy now. I hate not being able to trust people to do the right thing but I also need to protect livestock and property. Any thoughts, ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

Karen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before I was allowed to work sheep at the farm I've gone to, I had to sign a waiver releasing the owners of any liability for injury to myself, my dog, and/or my personal property. I also had to agree to a replacement cost of any sheep irrepairably damaged by working with my dog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Release forms are common at every trial. With practice, it's common courtesy that you would replace anything. I was at an AHBA trial at a friends, Usher ran last and everyone but a few were setting up for lunch. I didn't close the gate tight enough when I entered and a lamb got through. Usher slammed the lamb against the fence. I was so upset! I sent e-mails to the owners of the sheep and the judge and my trainer. The lamb was fine. I was sickened at the way he lost control over the poor little critter and would have paid any price.

 

I guess that is just the difference with people that use sheep as "toys" for their dogs and others that respect them as living creatures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the PM's everyone! I have several to choose from now and put one together I think will work for visitors working their dogs. The regular trial release needed more to it based on what happened here but I hope this one at least make people "aware".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a depressing practical note... if something unfortunate happens, and the person involved isn't reasonable about it, no waiver (however comprehensively written) will protect you from being sued.

 

Nor will having a solid waiver guarantee that you win, if you are sued.

 

Some folks are just determined to have their day in court and that will cost you (in time and aggravation even if you prevail financially), even if you technially win.

 

Also, as far as I remember from the last time I got legal advice about this, most of the potential issues for which you want a waiver (liability for injury and property damage) are governed on a state-by-state basis (in the USA). Chances are good that local state law will prevail over anything stated in a waiver. Some states have an "at your own risk" approach, others are very protective, whether you want it or not.

 

All dire warnings aside, it's always a good idea to get a waiver, because it puts everybody on notice, and it does give you a good starting point for your defense, if you get sued. Just don't be deceived into thinking a waiver is guaranteed protection.

 

One place to ask about the usefulness of a waiver for your situation is your insurance company. They're the ones who will likely wind up footing the bill (depending on how your policy is written) in a big bucks court situation, so they have a vested interest in seeing that their customers are as teflon-coated as possible. They may even have a standard form you can tailor to your individual needs. Or they might tell you not to bother. Or they may suggest an extra rider to cover "extraordinary" activities.

 

If you're really worried, also have the situation (and any answers from your insurance company) reviewed by a lawyer who understands insurance practice. Insurance agents don't always understand the finer legal points of the policies they sell, it's a huge complicated area of specialized knowledge and most of them are doing the best they can with what their companies tell them.

 

Most folks involved in farm-type activities seem to be pretty reasonable, thank goodness!

 

I'm not a lawyer myself (just have plenty of experience with them) and I will be happy to be educated by any real lawyers here. :-)

 

Liz S

in PA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent Karen a release that I got from a freind who had it made up by her lawyer for jus this type of situation. I also told her the same info that Liz has just written.

I've never had to find out if it was binding and don't really even use it unless something sticks out like a sore thumb but I think having someone sign a release at least makes them aware of what the possiblities are.

 

If anyone else want a copy of the release that I have, just pm me and I"ll send a copy to you. It's all legal sounding and does state quite a bit but the friend that gave it to me said exactly what Liz said. It's not something that will hold up in court if the circumstanes require something different. But at least it's something just in case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most folks involved in farm-type activities seem to be pretty reasonable, thank goodness!

 

Liz S

in PA

 

 

Thanks Liz, I agree. I just happened to run into a dork this time.....

 

Ins. is covered, special riders and all. I really just hope this will make people aware and think.

 

Karen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many condolences on your dork! :-)

 

Thanks Liz, I agree. I just happened to run into a dork this time.....

 

Ins. is covered, special riders and all. I really just hope this will make people aware and think.

 

Karen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Many condolences on your dork!

 

:rolleyes::D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting thread. Unfortunately we do have to protect ourselves while offering our sheep for other people to use. It is isn't hard for somebody inexperienced to get hurt. Recently I've worked with a few people who seem accident prone and/or out of shape, no balance and get run over easily. There's some big worry they will fall down and injure themselves.

Would any of you mind passing a waiver my way? If you could I sure would appreciate it as I haven't been able to come up with a good one yet.

Thanks

Wendy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
many condolances to your dork

 

you have _no_ idea. I witnessed most of said dorks behavior, and it was the culmination of a brilliantly exectured day of bratty idiotdom.

 

Which of course, was totally...not her fault :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diane

did you get the waiver? I don't have it on this computer. Karen, feel free to send Diane the one I sent you. It's pretty good I think. I can't remember but I think I sent it to someone else that asked. Brain fry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um... I *think* we're both on the same page, but just in case... I actually said, "Many condolences ON your dork." I was definitely NOT sympathizing with the dork. :-)

 

So sorry this person was such a spoilsport! Yes, it's always someone else's fault with these folks. No sense of personal responsibility, and no acceptance of that fundamental concept, "Sh*t happens, deal with it." Sigh. I've seen my share and they're always a test of my limited capacity for diplomacy.

 

Liz S

 

 

 

you have _no_ idea. I witnessed most of said dorks behavior, and it was the culmination of a brilliantly exectured day of bratty idiotdom.

 

Which of course, was totally...not her fault :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...