Marking territory

[Atlanta Smitty]

My dog is now 11 months old. About a month or 2 ago he started marking. Normally his first mark is a long one. The second one not as long. Then the others get smaller and smaller as he runs out of liquid.

 

He will still pee on command when I tell him to. And when I tell him that he'll get out as much as he can.

 

Now as a male myself I understand the whole marking territory thing. But he does it all the time while at say the dog park. Now I know it's their equivelent of men trying to impress the ladies with a free drink at the bar. But I want to know if there is a way to curve this behavior somewhat.

 

He'll try to mark other dogs sometimes. Other times he'll try to mark the waterbowl for dogs at the park. Then he'll mark every spot a dog marked.

 

I'm alright with him marking say the fence post that gets marked by every other dog there. But I don't like it (along with other people) when he'll try to mark another dog or the waterdish or even a person.

 

Does this marking behavior go down later on or is there a way to curve it? Maybe when he lifts his leg a bunch in a row tell him no.

 

He is not neutured. Nor do I plan to at this moment.

[Lunar]

As far as I know, neutering is the only thing that will curb excessive marking, though even neutered males mark. You could teach him what to/not to mark on, I'm sure, same as housebreaking, but I'm not sure how well that would work in a place so scent-filled like a dog park.

[Zoe]

Neutering is unlikely to "cure" his marking although it may prevent him from getting worse.I agree about educating him. But I don't frequent dog parks, so I am not sure how I'd go about that part. As for marking the waterbowl... does he have a good recall ? Could you carry your own water ? I always do, and Dylan knows where to go - to my bag which is always on the ground with his water bottle standing next to it - when he wants a drink.He'll nudge it with his nose if he is really desperate ! If you trained your dog to expect drinks from you and then prevented him from going near the waterbowl with his great recall ( rewarding with treats, games etc ), the peeing on the waterbowl problem part would be solved If you watch him carefully, can you see the signs that he is about to mark ? Have you tried distracting him ? I have a feeling that marking on a person might stop naturally... anyone else please correct me if I am wrong. I only have experience with Dylan, but he marked me a couple of times and 2 other people. He also tried a few more - all around at the same age as your pup. He also marked inside in a couple of new places we visited. But that all just stopped pretty quickly. I think maybe he was going through an insecure stage ??? I'll be interested to see what others say.

[Olivia]

Hmmmmm... not sure what to say. I have a 3.5 year old intact male that has never once tried to mark another dog or person. We have a rule that was instated at a very young age, if it appears man made, don't pee on it! Prevents him peeing on porch rails, etc. The only exception is wooden fence posts and power poles.

 

When we are at the park or where ever he will mark but knows that "enough, knock it off" said when he is marking means to quit. I'm not sure how I taught that, it just seemed to develop.

 

It seems to me that a dog marking people is not respecting people as higher in the pack than him. Grif was always taught that everyone (including strangers) are higher in pack order than him so he has to respect everyone.

 

I know he has been marked a couple of times by dogs at the park and I got quite upset about it. I hate having my dog peed on by other dogs! That's just disrespectful to my dog and to me. If you see the warning signs of starting to mark then call your dog away! It is a big pain in the butt to try to find water to wash the pee off my dog, especially if I had wanted to keep him clean and out of the pond that day.

 

Olivia

[AfterThought]

I have a male dog that was neutered at 6mths and has never lifted a leg to pee (he does a semi spread eagle instead) or marked until recently. It started a couple of mths ago at age 2.5 and he will occasionally mark a fence post or tree stump at the dog park. If I catch him in the act, a stern "Leave it" command will get him to put his leg down. One time I actually pushed his leg down and becuz he still had tons of pee in him, he continued peeing with both feet on the ground but his pee shooting off sideways! LOL.

[Caroline]

I have a friend that taught his unneutered schnauzer not to mark successfully. If that can be done, surely a border collie could learn. I will ask, at what age do you plan on neutering him. Caroline

 

Realizing that this may start the proverbial neuter/not neuter argument. Give me a good reason, I won't ask again!

[Atlanta Smitty]

My dog responds extremely well to me. Even in a dog park. Normally others are shocked at how I can control my dog from 25 yards/meters away with simple commands and whistles. But at that point normally in a dog park he is extremely disobidient to me. Which is exceptional to others. I've been jaded I guess I can say.

 

He just started lifting his leg. Now when he pees at my house he gets it all out. I understand with other male dogs at the dog park it's probably the equivelent of the male human species buying drinks for women at a bar. Their all trying to get their mate for the night.

 

But he has yet to hump anything. With the exception of 1 time I saw with a buddy's female pit. I stopped him before he could do anything.

 

I think if I am on to him constantly he'll finally get the hint. He's extremely smart.

 

Caroline:

At this point I'm not wanting to get him neutured. I plan to train him in Agility and other various activities. He weighs 36lbs at this moment which I have been told is perfect for agility. I have yet to see a dog outrun him. (Including a whippett and a greyhound). He can turn on a dime. And is one of the best frisbee catching dogs I have ever seen. Even among other border collies.

 

Basically I'm wanting to see where he goes. If he turns out to be a really good agility dog. I might try to breed him. I'm not sure at this moment. I'm going to play it by ear. Also my dog before him was never neutured nor the dog before him. Family tradition I guess.

[RaisingRiver]

My 5yo female marks all over the dog park. It's the only place she marks. By all over, I just mean that she squats very often - only marks the grass.

 

It took me several years to notice this (I guess I thought she had to pee a lot) and also realize she's an alpha dog - never submissive to ANY dog. But always submissive to my family.

 

My guess would be to trian your dog to ONLY mark on fence posts, trees and bushes. Everything else is off limits.

[Caroline]

Well Atlanta Smitty,

Have you read the FAQ or info message at the beginning of this general border collie discussion topic section? It might give you some heads up as to why I am saying what I am about to say.

 

And, by the way, I have said this to lots of folks, it isn't personal in any way.

 

Have you had a border collie before?

 

Everyone I know that has their first border collie thinks highly of him/her. Have fun, train him, do agility(I have a 14 1/2 yr old that did USDAA agility for years), do frisbee if you want, flyball, whatever you and your dog enjoy.

 

Breed your dog if and only if he can improve the breed for stockwork. Work him on stock, trial him, see how he compares to other top dogs, then you have the right to decide to breed him if he measures up. That is my belief and the belief of many on this board and the belief of the sponsors of this board.

 

He will not fatten up, if well cared for, neutered or not.

Thanks for listening,

Caroline

[Miztiki]

I don't have a problem with people keeping their dogs intact as long as they are responsible about it.

 

PLEASE don't breed your Border Collie though.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Neutering may very likely help because the urge is greater in response to the urge to mate. It becomes more of a habit that is easier to manage completely with behavior modification. I'm training our dogs not to mark on our "stuff" at our new place - they are both neutered but still like to mark.

 

Welcome to the BC Boards! We all love our Border Collies and think they are the greatest. Most of us do not breed them, however. We leave that to the people who breed them for livestock work. Read this to find out why. Everything that makes your dog cool was not created by people breeding agility, frisbee, or pet dogs - your dog is cool because people have been breeding dogs that are the best at working livestock.

 

Sure, keep your dog intact. But if you want to explore the possibility of breeding him, you need to dedicate some time to exploring his potential to work livestock. Not just "instinct testing" - but doing what his ancestors did.

[Atlanta Smitty]

I figured if I said that people would become offended. But I always try to stay honest thanks to the anonymous nature of the internet. I'm not here to impress anyone. But for the same reasons I come here so other people don't worry about offending me. I want truth and no sugar coating.

 

To the original subject. I started while on my way to the path of the dog park having him mark as many trees as possible on the way down. That way if he did try to mark a dog or someone he wouldn't have much to mark with. I actually saw him improve instantly. He didn't try to mark a dog nor did he try the water bowl. He stuck to fence posts and little grass spots. He still did it a decent bit but not as much as I saw the other day.

 

I'm not as worried about it anymore either since summer is here and I'm mountain biking with my dog more and at the dog park less.