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Is it all in a name?

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First of all, I have 2 friends in OR. that have Bill Berhow dogs they are going to breed in the fall. My friend has a male he brought from Bill and my other friend has a female not related. She won't be in season until fall. That makes the pups ready at a bad time here in ID.

 

Next, my trainer recommended his friend Brian Abingdon. The pups are due any moment. The stud dog Tip-

STUD DOGS ~ TIP

 

Tip, an ABCA Red rough coated Border Collie, is a working cattle ranch dog. During the summer of 2008 Tip achieved his WTCH (Working Trial Champion) in only 2 Trials - a feat that typically takes years to accomplish.

 

Tip's littermate Thong is an ASCA Working Trial Champion also and two time USBCHA National Finals Qualifier. Thong was also the youngest dog to qualify at thirteen months. Tip has Rojo, 1990 Reserve North American Trial Champion in his pedigree.

 

The Dam- Cookie

FEMALE DOGS ~ COOKIE

 

This slick coated black and white Registered American Border Collie, is sired by Lex and out of Lonerider Nan.

 

Cookie was recently re-purchased and when crossed with Tip, a litter mate to USBCHA two time qualifier Thong, produced quick powerful pups. This cross has become our favorite, as it has provided pups that are nice to be around and easy to train. They are wide on sheep and can work rank cattle.

 

We currently have two females from Cookie and Tip which you can view on this site, full litter mates Reika and Molly.

 

Due to the sucess that we have had from previous litters we have bred Cookie once again to Tip, and she is due to whelp the first part of May 2009. Please see our Upcoming Litters page under For Sale for more information.

 

 

 

OK- For me, summer is a better time to get a puppy. I'm out more, I can socialize, etc.... Is it all in a name?

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I got my puppy in November and I love her to death. But I swear I will never get another puppy in winter. Trying to housebreak her when it was 5 degrees with a 25 mile an hour wind was just awful. And it was so dark so ealy that it was hard to just get her out to walk and things. So I finally just paper trained her so I wouldn't have to get up at three in the morning and go stand in the blowing snow. Now I am finally getting her trained to go outside.

 

Summer would have been so much easier.

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Thong was also the youngest dog to qualify at thirteen months.

On cattle? Nope. Tikkle qualified at 11 months.

 

So is there a question in your post? Personally, I'm not impressed with dogs with "titles" (no matter how quickly they achieved them).

 

A

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Sorry! double post!

A

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Flippin' computer!

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Arggh!

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On cattle? Nope. Tikkle qualified at 11 months.

 

So is there a question in your post? Personally, I'm not impressed with dogs with "titles" (no matter how quickly they achieved them).

 

A

Yea, the ? is "Is it all in a name?" Or who you get your dog from? There are so many related dogs out here in ID. I'd like something a little different. Just not to be compared to a littermate....etc.... WTG Tikkle!!

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I got my puppy in November and I love her to death. But I swear I will never get another puppy in winter.

 

Quinn was my first summer (well early September) puppy. The previous 4 came home in November, January and February. Though summer was nicer as far as tromping in and out for housebreaking, I also liked winter because I am generally more home bound and have more time to just hang out with the puppy, as opposed to fitting him into a busy schedule.

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I didn't like getting Usher in late October. I think it would be nice to take the new pup out to clinic's and such, once shots are complete. I'm not real fond of a smoothie, but crossing it with a rough, which is the case in both the breeding's I'm sure I'd get a medium. I just like some fur to pet. Black or red doesn't matter.

BTW- both breeding's would be black & red breeding's.

I already have a name picked out for a red female. Blush.

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I didn't like getting Usher in late October. I think it would be nice to take the new pup out to clinic's and such, once shots are complete. I'm not real fond of a smoothie, but crossing it with a rough, which is the case in both the breeding's I'm sure I'd get a medium. I just like some fur to pet. Black or red doesn't matter.

BTW- both breeding's would be black & red breeding's.

I already have a name picked out for a red female. Blush.

 

 

Actually, you could get very rough to smooth with that breeding. My Rhett was bred to a McCallum bred smooth coated male and her sire was smooth coated, dam rough. Her coat is full and rough and her pups were usual either very rough coated or completely smooth, with the in-betweens being the exception.

 

Have you had a chance to see the parents in person? I'm with Anna, I'm not too impressed with the titles, when it comes to breeding Border Collies, anyways. Anyways, I'd say it is more important to get a pup from parents you admire and like personally- both working method and temperament- than what time of year the litter is born (granted, I live in Southern Nevada where there is no "bad" puppy time VBG).

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First of all, I have 2 friends in OR. that have Bill Berhow dogs they are going to breed in the fall. My friend has a male he brought from Bill and my other friend has a female not related. She won't be in season until fall. That makes the pups ready at a bad time here in ID.

 

Next, my trainer recommended his friend Brian Abingdon. The pups are due any moment. The stud dog Tip-

STUD DOGS ~ TIP

 

Tip, an ABCA Red rough coated Border Collie, is a working cattle ranch dog. During the summer of 2008 Tip achieved his WTCH (Working Trial Champion) in only 2 Trials - a feat that typically takes years to accomplish.

 

Nope wrong information, someone is lying....in only 2 trials your dog will just be at the "Open" class as 2 qualifying legs are required to be able to move up.

 

STDd - Started Trial Dog - Ducks

STDs - Started Trial Dog - Sheep

STDc - Started Trial Dog - Cattle

 

OTDd - Open Trial Dog - Ducks

OTDs - Open Trial Dog - Sheep

OTDc - Open Trial Dog - Cattle

 

ATDd - Advanced Trial Dog - Ducks

ATDs - Advanced Trial Dog - Sheep

ATDc - Advanced Trial Dog - Cattle

 

WTCH - Working Trial Champion (Earned by achieving all three ATD Titles)

 

Based on the above, since you have to start at the "started" level, it would take a minimum of 6 trials to obtain the WTCH. The only reason it should take "years" is if your dog can't "work" or you don't trial but once or twice a year!

 

I myself would stay away from both these litters...it appears as too much misinformation is being tossed out about these dogs.

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When the right litter comes along buy a pup. I've raised more than half my dogs in the winter (with temps as low as 40 below zero). I didn't have a problem socializing them. Yeah, house breaking in cold weather stinks, but having a pup from the breeding you want is more than worth it.

 

I agree with what others said, I wouldn't buy from the second breeder. Bragging about ASCA and AHBA titles tells me this person doesn't have a good idea about what a high quality dog is about.

 

I would also like to add that having littermates nearby to compare to is great. It allows the exchange if ideas to advance your dog's training at a faster pace and with less frustration. I own 2 half brothers to Denise Wall's May and have been thrilled to watch May grow up on those wonderful training videos she made. (Thanks Denise! How about an update?)

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Actually, you could get very rough to smooth with that breeding. My Rhett was bred to a McCallum bred smooth coated male and her sire was smooth coated, dam rough. Her coat is full and rough and her pups were usual either very rough coated or completely smooth, with the in-betweens being the exception.

 

Have you had a chance to see the parents in person? I'm with Anna, I'm not too impressed with the titles, when it comes to breeding Border Collies, anyways. Anyways, I'd say it is more important to get a pup from parents you admire and like personally- both working method and temperament- than what time of year the litter is born (granted, I live in Southern Nevada where there is no "bad" puppy time VBG).

 

I haven't had a chance to see the parents yet. I'm planning on a trip to the Oregon Coast for "Girls week" yep, I get to see Bailey again. I'll be going with my old neighbor, the Aussie lady & crew chief's wife, also. We are going to stop by our old places and visit Kathy Brunetto & Mike Ryan (the owners of Bill's dogs) so I will have a chance to see them work and get some new advice and catch-up time. Kathy retired & only trials once a year. She still trains, so if anyone in that area needs help- she's the best.

 

I will also visit & or pick up the pup- Brian Abingdon is great. If I am not fond of the litter, here's your check back. Actually Bonnie Henny owns one of Bill's dogs too. I know a lot of people in OR. I'm not to popular around here- LOL. Titles don't mean much to me, either. I don't have sheep, I just happen to enjoy the sport and the company of other crazy people that like doing the same thing I do.

 

I'm checking on placing Bliss in a retirement home as resident dog. She loves the elderly and would be so happy there. I have only kept her this long because my Mom loves her, but refuses to take her, except to baby-sit.

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So, forgive me if I'm wrong, but according to the website, these dogs are being bred for color, right? Yes, working ability is in there as well (in those venues which award titles), but they specify they breed red BCs. The website also says that the breeder/trainer is a "USBCHA National Finals & ASCA Working Trial Champion trainer." The ambiguously placed modifier "Champion" kinda sounds like he's claiming to be an HA Finals winner, doesn't it? I believe he claims to be at the cattle end of the spectrum, competition-wise, but I don't recall seeing him at a Finals. I did see him at one cattle trial some years ago in that area, and wasn't at all impressed, sorry (with either him or his dogs). But, it sounds like you've got your mind made up, and are set on this pup; afterall, you've already got a name picked out.

A

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here's your check back.

 

OK, you are buying from one that breeds for color, lies about his dogs and misleads people about his own ability...and you already paid for this pup.....congratulations you may have just bought a puppymill pup

 

insert headbanging emoticon

 

Are these people paying you to advertise for them here?

 

And noobs wonder "why" things get heated around here.....why bother?

 

insert headbanging emoticon

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If no one felt passionaltely enough about this loss of a quality breed to stand up, then we would lose it. I for one am learning, agree with, and admire the heat on this subject! And understand the overall frustration better now.

 

PLEASE Do Bother! There are noobs everyday who need an education. One real reason why this is the forum I read and joined, to LEARN.

 

Thanks! probably a noob :-) I hope to grow out of it, Sue

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When we decided to adopt our last dog, I was set on waiting until spring. I wanted to be able to be outside with the new dog a lot and get us started off in the summertime.

 

Well, something really moved me to go up to GHF in December and I ended up getting my dog at the exact time that I didn't want to! But I wouldn't have missed Dean for the world.

 

Now, we were lucky and we had a mild January that year, so I got to spend more time with him outside than I normally would have in the winter, but in February winter hit with a vengence and there were some tough times with the high energy adolescent when cabin fever set in! But I knew I'd rather have Dean in the winter than any other dog in the spring!

 

Anyway, my point is that if you find the right pup, but it isn't the time of year you prefer, it will all work out! I wish you the best finding your new puppy.

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The website for "Basin Border Collies" is about "preserving the working ABCA red Border Collie" while the Abingdon Ranch website does mention color (and probability of color in expected litters) but without the emphasis on color that the BBC website promotes. It also seems a bit less "misleading" about accomplishments.

 

Unless someone I respected recommended one of these breeders, I'd keep looking if I wanted a well-bred working dog, or look to rescue if I wanted a companion dog (and many rescues will have dogs that have as much potential for good "hobby" work as many pups you might buy).

 

While it's so much easier to have a mild weather pup, the right pup is more important than the season...

 

Wishing you luck and good decisions!

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It also seems a bit less "misleading" about accomplishments

 

The quote about the WTCH accomplishment is from the Abington site - plain out impossible to accomplish in 2 trials. So, what is not misleading about it?

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The website for "Basin Border Collies" is about "preserving the working ABCA red Border Collie" while the Abingdon Ranch website does mention color (and probability of color in expected litters) but without the emphasis on color that the BBC website promotes. It also seems a bit less "misleading" about accomplishments.

 

Unless someone I respected recommended one of these breeders, I'd keep looking if I wanted a well-bred working dog, or look to rescue if I wanted a companion dog (and many rescues will have dogs that have as much potential for good "hobby" work as many pups you might buy).

 

While it's so much easier to have a mild weather pup, the right pup is more important than the season...

 

Wishing you luck and good decisions!

Someone I DO respect recommend them

I didn't mean to heat things up. Sorry!

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The quote about the WTCH accomplishment is from the Abington site - plain out impossible to accomplish in 2 trials. So, what is not misleading about it?

I perused both websites but did not pick this up. Thank you for pointing it out.

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Someone I DO respect recommend them

I didn't mean to heat things up. Sorry!

Peep - I had been thinking to suggest that you check with Don about recommends. Maybe the "safest" thing to do it simply to avoid going "public" with pup choices. After all, I don't kinow any of these folks and really am sticking my nose in where I have no business being.

 

Best wishes with whatever you decide!

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This one is new on me.

 

Reserve your pup now with a $100.00 deposit. (Deposit applied to sale price)

 

Puppies are $500.00.

$700.00 for first pick of the litter.

$600.00 for first pick of female.

$600.00 for first pick of male.

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