Outrun Q - "Short" or Not?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Ted's got a pretty decent outrun. But as he is a baby dog, and since since he's the first dog I've trained to this level, I do a lot of second guessing when he goes for his sheep. Yeah, I know . . .

 

I had one moment like this on Saturday when we worked away from home at Julie's, in the unfenced area. I set the sheep well within Ted's comfort level since the terrain and lines of sight were somewhat tricky.

 

The sheep were very strong to their right (to my left) and behind them. The first couple of times I sent him to the left, Ted flanked past balance, then flanked back and lifted them.

 

The last time I sent him, he stopped on balance, but that was significantly "short" and almost on the sheep's shoulders (these sheep were very heavy and being somewhat naughty about breaking in various directions when given the chance). I opened my mouth to do - actually I don't know what I thought I was going to do, I was just reacting because it "looked" so "wrong." Then he lifted the sheep and they were spot on straight. Yeah, novice moment there.

 

I'm wondering whether there was anything I should have done, whether he was okay there, or just any helpful insight as to what's going on in situations like that.

 

Thanks!

[Guest carol campion]

sheep were very strong to their right (to my left) and behind them. The first couple of times I sent him to the left, Ted flanked past balance, then flanked back and lifted them.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Rebecca

 

This part would tell me that he learned from the first couple of outruns where that pressure point was and adjusted for it on the one where the sheep came straight when he looked short to you.

 

When I first was training dogs, I was big on the silent gather thing. In fact, I think I hosted the first silent gather competition at my Bittersweet Trial in 1990. Tom Wilson won it with Roy. It was great fun.

 

But in leaning too far towards that type of training, I never bothered to learn where that top end pressure point was. I would hope the dog found it. Then wonder too late to correct it if he was not right—just like what you are asking.

 

Than, I started stopping my dogs at the top in training, in addition to training a natural outrun & lift, so that if needed I could get that stop and help teach myself where that point was. What I then realized was that sometimes when I was stopping my dog in certain places, I was wrong. So in putting a stop at the top, I was able to learn by trial and error where that point is that Ted found on the later outruns. I may not be exactly right, but now in looking at a situation, I can get a pretty good sense of where it is so that if my dogs are coming on around and I suspect they are not going to land correctly, I can help by stopping them on the right pressure point. When I have helped and the sheep lift straight, I don't feel it takes anything away from them dog. I think it helps mark for them where that pressure point is.

 

The overlooked aspect of this is that if the dog doesn't land right at the top of the outrun, either at home or at a trial, it gives a message to the sheep that the dog doesn't care or doesn't want to be there in control. So the sheep are more likely to try the dog either on the fetch or again on the drive.

 

Mixing that training up with developing a natural top with no interference, I think, gives you a more flexible dog and will help your handling and your training goals.

 

Sounds like you all have a great group to get together with down there in NC!

 

Carol

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I am very thankful for the talented people that are available around here both at the top level, and sort of growing with me too. It's such a help to have an active group to work with.

 

The overlooked aspect of this is that if the dog doesn't land right at the top of the outrun, either at home or at a trial, it gives a message to the sheep that the dog doesn't care or doesn't want to be there in control. So the sheep are more likely to try the dog either on the fetch or again on the drive.

 

This is exactly why I was wavering. So I will experiment as you say. My sheep are definitely testy, so I think what I can do is use them to work on asking him to find balance on his own. Then I can work on more cooperative and forgiving sheep to experiment. I don't want to shake his confidence, especially while handling my naughty sheep.

 

Thank you!