OCD - inherited or acquired?

[puppytoes]

Before i got Orbit i heard a lot about OCD in border collies. I figured that mostly people mistook their intensity and focus for obsession but when he was a puppy it was someting that was often on my mind (and still is to a certain point). I made huge efforts to socialize him to everything possible since i live in an urban area. We used to visit places with lots of dogs. Up until about 6 months, he would race around and play with other dogs. Then one day, almost as if someone flicked a switch, he stopped being interested in the dogs and became interested in their things (balls, frisbees, sticks).

 

Since then, he has learned to leave it and he isn't quite as intense about the whole situation (he is a year old now). He is able to play with objects and then i can put them in my pocket and we can continue with our walk. As much as he loves his chuck-it i try to use it sparingly, believing (perhaps falsely?) that it might make him OCD. That leads to my question. Are dogs born with OCD or do we contribute to it/create it by allowing these very intelligent dogs to focus all that brain power on something like chasing a ball?

[bc4ever]

That leads to my question. Are dogs born with OCD or do we contribute to it/create it by allowing these very intelligent dogs to focus all that brain power on something like chasing a ball?

My uneducated guess would be a little of both.

[in2adventure]

Interesting question. I've noticed, even in people, the higher the intelligence, the more prone the dog/person is to be OCD. Not sure why. I would think the higher the intelligence, the less likely one would want to do something repetatively over and over. This is just my thought though. With that being said, that thought process would not make me out to be very smart. I've got the ADD thing going on

 

My guys aren't very OCD about much. Reactive, intence, but not OCD.

[Brad]

to me, OCD is more of a tick in their mind, causing things like continual chasing of tail, chewing limbs, etc. I know a rotty, that when she sees a flash of reflection of sunlight off a watch or something, will spend hours staring at the spot the light was at. There is no pulling her away.

A BC that gets intense over a game like chuck-it, disc, etc, in my mind is just being a BC. My guy looks crazed when we're playing ball (or raking leaves), but an "out" command turns him off right away. I believe true OCD is a genetic trait, assuming human OCD and dog OCD are the same "D".

[BNM1980]

Actually, those who have OCD refer to their condition as CDO; that is, with all the letters as they should be, in alphabetical order.

[bc4ever]

Actually, those who have OCD refer to their condition as CDO; that is, with all the letters as they should be, in alphabetical order.

[Shetlander]

My uneducated guess would be a little of both.

 

I agree. I think there is a genetic base to it but also it can be made worse, reduced or avoided by how we handle any symptoms when they show up. In humans, OCD is anxiety based and the more you engage in the behaviors the more relief you get from them and the harder it is not to engage in the behaviors even when the behavior becomes extremely disruptive or painful. In effect, we can "build" neural pathways" for certain behaviors. But that is on top of the huge genetic component of mental illness and addiction.

 

Quinn hasn't shown much propensity for OCD but I also always interrupted the slightest indication that he might be headed in that direction and did what I could not to encourage such behavior (e.g, NO laser light play). Just to be on the safe side.

[jdarling]

I thought you meant this type of OCD.

 

For many years, my sister suffered from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I do not think there is any way to compare what she was going through to a dog chasing a ball. OCD is a very serious mental illness. Chasing a ball is self-rewarding behavior, and more easily compared to an annoying habit, but society feels a need to slap a label on everything. Yes, we can certainly contribute to their "obsession" with the ball, but to me, it's more likely to develop out of boredom and lack of interaction. Comparing this behavior to OCD is nothing short of ridiculous, and I have a feeling that people that throw the OCD label on a dog have no idea what OCD really is.

[ErinKate]

lol JDarling me too! I am a horse person and we talk about OCD all the time-that was the first thing into my head!

 

I too say a little of both. People often think little things are cute, until they turn obsessive. (ie licking lotion, which can turn into totally obsesive licking, that makes me nuts!!!) I think BCs are very prone to take the simplest thing and turn it into obsessive behavior.

 

But on the flip side, IMO psycho breeds psycho. Probably not always, but I wouldn't risk it.

 

I am with Jodi however, not all things are really OCD, just not being properly trained.

[puppytoes]

Sorry i think i just accidently reposted the previous post.

 

First of all, I am really sorry if i offended anyone by using the term OCD. In truth, i have never seen it manifested in either humans or canines, so i appologize if it was used incorrectly. I have often heard it used in reference to border collies (probably by ignorant people) so i just want to make sure that i am not allowing my dog to become compulsive or obsessive. I don't think he is. He loves it but i am able to put it away and he can go on his merry way. He can however spot them from a mile away, and tries to make a bee-line for anyone carrying a chuck-it.

 

So let me ask this, for those people who don't have sheep, what activities does your dog enjoy (besides agility, which we will begin soon) that can be done in an urban environment ?

[eclare]

Puppytoes, I know of exactly what you speak! I used to love taking Daisy to the park to meet other dogs. She would run and play and get exhausted. At about 18 months she became absolutely OBSESSED with fetch. We can't really go to the park anymore unless it is not too crowded and I feel fairly comfortable with the dogs that are there, because she gets very snippy (and sometimes violent) with dogs that interfere with her "work". It's funny because she goes to daycare 5 days a week and they say she's never been aggressive there. But bring a tennis ball into the equation and it is game on!

 

We were out a "field trip" obedience class today where we take the dogs to various crowded areas (shopping centers, parks, etc) so they can learn to focus with common distractions. Daisy is always terrific at this and we've made huge strides in her behavior (not that she was ever really a problem, but she tended to get distracted easily). She was doing great all through class until the owner of this adorable Toller puppy decided to swap out her food treats for a tennis ball. So much for Daisy's A+ focus on me.

 

I also live in an urban environment and have been considering adding Rally-O to our repetoire because it seems like something that can be practiced just walking around town. I might even consider doing a tricks class just as a means of keeping her brain occupied. It's tough because when you live in the city you have to separate the mental stimulation from the physical exertion while still making sure that the dog (and you) get plenty of both. If anybody else has suggestions for urban activities to replace herding, I would love to hear them.

[bc4ever]

When we took Scooter to puppy school, the owner looked around the room to see who her new "pupils" were. When she came to Scooter, (of course, the only Border Collie in the class), she said, "Border Collies are very anal. They'll play ball for an hour without stopping if you let them." I was slightly offended by that. I guess the key phrase there was "if you let them." We are often at the root of some of our dogs' quirky behavior.

[Laurelin]

I have an obsessive licker. She came to me that way but with a year of working on it, she's gotten a lot better. You do have to really correct her when she starts licking because if you don't stop her, she will lick you, the couch, her paws, the air, whatever for hours. Her grandmother was also an obsessive licker (she was actually named Kissy because of it) but on the other hand, if I don't let her keep licking, eventually she stops. It may take a few tries to get her to stop and it has taken a year to really get her behavior changed significantly (still got a ways to go) but I think it shows that it can be corrected somewhat with training.

[Jo&Tex]

I work in the field of human behaviour management and I have a few clients with OCD. I aldo have a shadow obsessed deaf dog. I see a big difference in the nature of the obsessions.

 

Loki was in a caged puppymill environment for pretty much the first 7-8 mos of his life. No doubt he was anxious and bored and learned to stare at shadows to amuse himself. He's almost 4 and he still does it, continuously, even tho he is able to run loose on a big farm and burn off his excess energy. He does have small seizures sometimes so there may be a component of epilepsy to his weirdness. However, Loki is still a fully functioning dog. He stares at a shadow, but he'll leave it to go bark at a truck coming up the driveway. He'll leave it to eat a cookie and if you introduce something new ( like going to the pond for a swim) he'll take a break from shadow watching for a little while. If there is a shadow, he'll stare at it and spin and bark, but he also runs and pees and notices other things as well.

 

My human clients with OCD are completely unable to break away from the object of their focus. They lose their ability to function normally. One lady is obsessed with paper and if she gets a hold of some, she'll flip and fold it until she reaches such a level of anxiety that she lashes out. She goes into a catatonic state of focus and nothing will budge her. Then, somehow she has to release that energy. Thats typical of people with OCD mental illness, and bears little resemblence to Loks staring at the ground or a dog bringing me a ball fifty times to have it thrown again and again.

[Liz P]

Real canine OCD is like the human form, the dogs can't stop their repetitive tasks even if they are hungry, tired or want to do something else. True OCD is inherited in some lines of dogs (Bull Terriers are known for it). When you see real OCD as opposed to just obsessive tendencies you will never forget it. I once saw a dog who couldn't stop chasing its tail, even when restrained. While chasing her tail she was crying, exhausted and obviously in great distress. She was PTS for humane reasons because all attempted therapy (medical and behavioral) failed. Sadly, that is not at all an uncommon story.

[Flamincomet]

OCD to me is not "really" loving to play fetch. OCD to me is one of the things my previous BC Ghost did, which was completely and randomly obsessing and attacking sticks, leaves and sometimes even things I couldn't see on the ground. We could be in the middle of practicing heeling and all of the sudden he would lunge forward, pupils dilated to KILL a stick. He would shake it furiously in his mouth and refuse to let it go for anything. If I managed to get it away, he would scream and lunge at me "punching" me with his paws (I regularly had bruises on my legs from him), sometimes even trying to bite me. I would have to either give the stick to someone else to take out of sight, or trick him by pretending to throw it one way while really throwing it another. Also, if I did manage to get the stick out of his sight, he would usually find something else to obsess over, another stick or leaf usually, but sometimes a dog, which he would exhibit the same behavior towards. I NEVER played with him with sticks or anything like that, this behavior appeared completely out of the blue for no apparent reason. Because of the complete randomness of this behavior, I would have to blame genetics for this one, and his many other obsessive/compulsive behaviors. He did not come from a very good breeder AT ALL, and in fact there have been reports of dogs from the same breeding (this breeding has been repeated at least 4 times) having very similar issues. I took very good care to socialize him early on. Before he was finished with his shots I would have friends come over and give him treats, and take him to safe areas with "safe" dogs to play with. After his shots we went right into obedience class and I took him to many of the classes offered by my kennel club. He got plenty of physical and mental exercise. The only rational explanation is genetics, to me and the many people that have actually met him and seen his behavior.

 

But that is just one dog, and my personal experiences.

 

Autumn

[Tommy Coyote]

Real canine OCD is like the human form, the dogs can't stop their repetitive tasks even if they are hungry, tired or want to do something else. True OCD is inherited in some lines of dogs (Bull Terriers are known for it). When you see real OCD as opposed to just obsessive tendencies you will never forget it. I once saw a dog who couldn't stop chasing its tail, even when restrained. While chasing her tail she was crying, exhausted and obviously in great distress. She was PTS for humane reasons because all attempted therapy (medical and behavioral) failed. Sadly, that is not at all an uncommon story.

 

Oh my gosh. Maybe that's what the bull terrier I take care is doing. She walks up and sticks her head in bushes and then just stands there. It is so funny to see but it never made sense to me why she does that. She was a kennel breeder dog for 10 years and knew nothing when her new owners got her from rescue. But boy has she come around and is now one the sweetest dogs.