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Abby knips my ankles and pants all the freakin' time. I heard I was supposed to yelp and leave the room, but how do I leave the room when she has a hold of my pants and won't let go? If I try to open her jaws, she starts growling and locks down harder, making it more difficult for me to get her off of me. It turns into a game for her.

 

I've been training the "leave it" command, and it works when we're inside training, but once we're outside and she's in that fix on my pants, she won't leave it. If I bring a treat out, she'll leave it, but as soon as she's done munching on the treat, she starts again.

 

She seems to attack my ankles/pants almost every time after she pees or poos outside, and sometimes inside when she's hyper. It's almot becoming routine for her. I am finding myself getting frustrated with her and have yelled at her a couple of times. I know this will get me no where. Somebody pleeeeease advise.

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The way I dealt with any behavior like that from Odin (what age is she?) was to say "game over" and remove him from the situation, either by going back inside, putting him calmly in his crate, etc. And I kept working on leave it when he was in a state to learn and pay attention.

 

However, he did often get the zoomies after potty. I think he felt lighter :rolleyes: Good luck!

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I had this issue, I kind of used what people would say a 'bad' method, it isnt exactly clicker training. Rush would latch on and tug and I couldnt get her off, so I would roll her gum under her lip and say ouch, she didnt understand she was hurting me, until I did the gum roll. I wasnt abusive with it or anything just let her know it wasnt ok, it only took a couple of times then she moved from biting (which actually hurt) to tackling lol, which was mildly cute but still annoying, especially when it caused me to trip and fall, after that I would kind of push her down into a sit or stand and then got on her level and said NO firmly, it wasnt a game. She caught on fast. I guess all dogs are different, what I did worked for Rush though.

 

Good luck! I know nipping can be really annoying, especially when they use your clothes and body parts as tugs lol :x.

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She's eight weeks old.

 

What I started doing today (since turning my back on her and ignoring her wasn't working) was immediately picking her up and saying leave it to get her away from nipping me. I then march inside with her in my arms and then put her down, and by then she'll have forgotten about nipping (usually, but not always). I do like the game over phrase for this scenario.

 

Now, should I put her in her crate when I pick her up and do a "game over"? I read crate's shouldn't be used as punishment...or is this just to get her mind off of my poor ankles?

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It turns into a game for her.

That's it in a nutshell. It's a game for her. Does she have a special toy? If so, divert her attention with her toy. If that doesn't work maybe spraying your pant leg with some bitter apple (if it doesn't stain).

 

You are correct in saying a crate shouldn't be used as punishment. Every time Josie needs a time out, I fill a kong with peanut butter so she'll have something to keep her busy while she's in there. Crate time is also the only time she gets the PB filled kong (during the day) so for her crate time is special and not a punishment. Come night time, all I have to do is say "Let's go to bed" and she's more than glad to go to her crate.

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What toys does she like to play with? Definitely redirect her onto a toy and if she doesn't redirect, then I'd issue a "time out" for the behavior.

 

Jollyballs are a huge favorite of our gang here to play with. They come in different sizes, ours love the giant horse-sized ones but you may want to start with a smaller one.

 

Also teaching the game of "tug" with an appropriate tug toy will teach her to have an "off" switch on the tugging game. I don't have time to look up the link, but there are several on how to teach and play tug with your dog.

 

Good luck - she's young, she'll learn quickly!

 

Just a note on corrections vs redirection - at this young an age if you start with positive punishment for this behavior, you have nothing left but to go "up" on the corrections later. (louder, harsher) They need to be used very conservatively if at all and learning what TO DO is going to result in much longer lasting results than simply correcting her for what NOT TO DO - hope that makes sense!

 

Kathy

who sees people who can't communicate to their dogs unless it is LOUD, OBNOXIOUS, and HARSH and scratches her head:(((

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She's eight weeks old.

 

What I started doing today (since turning my back on her and ignoring her wasn't working) was immediately picking her up and saying leave it to get her away from nipping me. I then march inside with her in my arms and then put her down, and by then she'll have forgotten about nipping (usually, but not always). I do like the game over phrase for this scenario.

 

Now, should I put her in her crate when I pick her up and do a "game over"? I read crate's shouldn't be used as punishment...or is this just to get her mind off of my poor ankles?

Jack Knox just told me to reach down and pinch their ear. Tommy did that when she was really little. I just kind of bopped her on the nose and told her "no." She stopped.

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You are correct in saying a crate shouldn't be used as punishment.

 

 

Absolutely. I have never used the crate as punishment at that age or any other but only as a way to let him calm down. I tried toy redirection but in my case if Odin was so wound up that he was already at the stage of biting my pants then he often was not careful of my hands when I reached down with a toy so it was sort of like trading one type of unwanted nipping for another. I'm sure these pups are all a bit different though! "Game over" was said in a calm, even, happy voice, and I would put him in the crate with a nice chew toy just like any other time he was to go in there. This was after he was crate trained and saw it as a neutral or even good place anyway. 5 minutes is usually all it would take.

 

BTW, later, I used "game over" as well when he was older to mark overly rough play with toys. If we were playing tug and he bit my hands with the toy, I said it and immediately laid the toy down. When he settled down some, we could play again and he was always much gentler and more careful with his sharp little teeth!

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I have never used the crate as punishment at that age or any other but only as a way to let him calm down.

I agree! To me, there's a difference in punishment and 'down time'. Even though Josie was older when we got her (6 mos) there were times when she would get really tired and fight her sleep. By putting her in the crate with her kong, it made her stay in place long enough for her to listen to her body. More than once, I walked over to her crate to see her laying on her side with the kong still between her paws napping looking so adorable.

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One note on picking her up and carrying her off. If I need to remove Renoir from a situation by carrying him off as a correction, I carry him with his head under my arm facing the back of me. Where when I pick him up for cuddles and loves, I carry him around normally. I don't know that this has any technical significance, but he now seems to understand the difference between to two. When I pick him up backwards he has a very respectful, oh, no I did something wrong look, versus when I pick him up to hold him, he beams ear to ear.

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Even though Josie was older when we got her (6 mos) there were times when she would get really tired and fight her sleep.

 

My Daisy is 2, and she still does this from time to time. It's always obvious because she just whines and talks and generally annoys as if she needs to go out/eat/play, whatever, even though all of she has already been out and eaten and refuses to play when I engage with her. So I just put her in her crate and she goes right to sleep. It's almost comical.

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I bet cesar milan could fix that problem very easily, and the dog would not have hurt feelings from his methods either, but apparantly he's evil around these parts...so I won't suggest trying his methods.

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Jack Knox just told me to reach down and pinch their ear. Tommy did that when she was really little. I just kind of bopped her on the nose and told her "no." She stopped.

 

Yup.

 

A

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My head spins when I see terms like "positive reinforcement," "negative reinforcement," "redirect," "distraction," "positive punishment," etc. This particular issue is not that big of a deal. I do not negotiate with my puppies. I don't try to convince them that something else is more fun to do. To me, this behavior is unacceptable -- cut and dry. One perfectly timed very unpleasant experience for puppy and it will remember.

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LOL Jodi! I get really clumsy when pups little grab my pants. I'm apt to stumble all over, and send that pup for a ride on my big silly feet. I won't hurt him, but I'll sure make him sure he doesn't want his mouth on my pants again.

 

Once in a while you'll see a really brave one that fancies he's a levi lugger, and a good smack and scruff will end it. Again...(sigh, bless everybody's pph)...don't rattle his brains, just make him remember that it's not so fun to try this stuff.

 

Better the pup try it on me than his canine grandma here. She'll put a hole in his nose and make him scream for mercy before she lets him up. And he'll never try it again. Dogs have no mercy on pups like this.

 

 

 

My head spins when I see terms like "positive reinforcement," "negative reinforcement," "redirect," "distraction," "positive punishment," etc. This particular issue is not that big of a deal. I do not negotiate with my puppies. I don't try to convince them that something else is more fun to do. To me, this behavior is unacceptable -- cut and dry. One perfectly timed very unpleasant experience for puppy and it will remember.
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- snip -

Better the pup try it on me than his canine grandma here. She'll put a hole in his nose and make him scream for mercy before she lets him up. And he'll never try it again. Dogs have no mercy on pups like this.

 

Great point, exactly what i would have said. Screw this whole "don't hurt it's feelings" or take the mind-game route of "non-violence" and simply ignoring bad behavior and reinforcing good behavior without any physical disciplinary correction - if dogs have been doing it just fine this way - physical discipline - for thousands of years, then it's probably the best way to handle the situation, you're not going to hurt the dog unless you straight up punch it or kick it, but a hand-mouth nip on the scruff like Cesar Milan does isn't going to do damage, it's going to appeal to the dog's instinct, make it much happier to behave the easy way it's programmed to - period! and yes that's a damn cover-all statement, and yes it's that easy, dog's really are, anyone who says otherwise is just afraid or can't possibly accept the easy answer, needs to find some complicated one instead... hmph.

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. . . anyone who says otherwise is just afraid or can't possibly accept the easy answer, needs to find some complicated one instead... hmph.

 

I do things completely different from the way you choose to do them. Last time I checked, that was my right and privilege as an American citizen. You will have to tell me what objective law exists that must compel me to think exactly as you do about this.

 

I don't consider the training choices that I make at all complicated - they are quite simple, actually. Just different from your preference. Last time I checked, having a very different "easy answer" from another person was accepted as par for the course in life.

 

The idea that we would all approach dog training from the exact same point of view strikes me as rather ridiculous. People are different. We have different preferences. My preferences differ from yours. Why do you feel it appropriate to insist that I change my preferences to be the same as yours? That makes no sense to me.

 

Personally, I find that people who get upset by the fact that I train my dogs simply and successfully without punishment strike me as being very afraid of something. I'm not quite sure what it is that they get so sensitive over, honestly. Something about the fact that I have made a personal choice and commitment to train my dogs without the use of punishment tends to cause some people to throw insults my way, and something about it seems to make them feel it necessary to insist that the methods that I have chosen "can't work", or that "punishment doesn't hurt the dog's feelings". Ummmm . . . so what? It's still my preference to do things differently. Deal with it.

 

Now, aside from JBlaylock, whose post I am responding to directly, I am not making any references or inferences to anyone here. I am actually experiencing this big time in real life right now. I find it extremely puzzling.

 

ETA: I am not insulted, my feelings aren't hurt, and I am not upset. Read my tone in this post as inquisitive and interested. :rolleyes: Life is way too short to get upset over the fact that people are different from one another and not everyone makes the same choices. Trust me - it's way too short.

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I bet cesar milan could fix that problem very easily, and the dog would not have hurt feelings from his methods either, but apparantly he's evil around these parts...so I won't suggest trying his methods.

 

Well, since CM is not available to the average person with the average high drive pup, we sometimes offer helpful, proven suggestions here :rolleyes: . If it worked for us we suggest it, reguardless of whether it's "CM approved" or not.

 

 

And if you read some of the threads on CM you will find that there are some of us who tend to agree with him in part at least.

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And if you read some of the threads on CM you will find that there are some of us who tend to agree with him in part at least.

 

oh don't make him do that. He wouldn't have time to post his omipotent opinion after all of 7 days here! And that.... would be such a shame....

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Thank you for all your replies.

 

I guess I was hoping that there was one magical solution that would fix this, but everyone trains differents. I've never owned a dog from the puppy stage, so have never had to do much obedience training. There are about two or three different methods that I am very interested in, but they're all so different from eachother, I don't know how to choose.

 

I didn't want to do any hands on discipline, but the jab in the scruff doesn't seem too bad?

 

I also what I just started doing. Picking her up and removing her from the situation. The idea about carring her backwards is excellent!

 

I also like the game over and time out session in crate. However, if I put her in her crate with a kong or treat of some sort, couldn't she possibly interpret that as "nipping at ankles=treat/toy". I don't want her to get the wrong idea.

 

Not too sure what to think about the distracting her with a toy while she's in attack mode....couldn't she also interpret this as "nipping=treat".

 

Sorry for all questions. I'm new at this and just want to make sure that I feel confident in what method I choose. I also want to be consistent.

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Niccru,

Does your pup understand a correction word, like "Ahht!" or "No!" or "Hey!"? If so, you can use that effectively without having to resort to physical punishment or distraction. If not, you can teach a correction word now, but it will involve some physical intercession. If I have a puppy dragging at my ankles/pants,** my first reaction would be a harsh Ahht!. If that didn't stop the little nipper in it's tracks, then I'd probably go to a brief scruff shake or a thump/flick on the nose with a finger next (note that both the scruff shake and the nose thump are used more for their startle factor than as a punishment per se). Usually I don't have to go that far, though, because the pup has understood from day 1 that Ahht! means stop whatever the hell you're doing and find something else to do and so would interpret it correctly in this situation to mean let go of the pants and find something else to do. **In truth, I would probably be watching the pup and time my correction--ahht!--as soon as I noticed the puppy *think* about going for my pants instead of waiting until it had already latched on.

 

That said, I have also used distraction methods, specifically with one pup who was incorrigible about hanging off the face hairs of one of my older dogs. This particular dog is very shy and also very sensitive to harsh tones. Unlike the rest of the pack, she wouldn't correct the puppy for this inappropriate behavior, so of course she became the usual target. If I used a voice correction on the pup, this particular dog took it as a correction of her too. So in that case, I did use a tug toy as a distraction. It enabled me to prevent the puppy from harassing the older dog without scaring the older dog by correcting the puppy with a harsh voice.

 

I find that it's most effective to tailor my training to the situation at hand, including the personalities of the dog(s) involved. My first approach would generally be the one I described in the first paragraph, but because that approach had its disadvantages in the scenario I described above, I tailored my training for that particular situation. Just something to keep in mind. Training isn't always black and white. You can take everyone's ideas and then look at your own situation and try the methods that make the most sense to you.

 

Also if you're worried about nipping = treat, then once you stop the pup from nipping, you could simply ignore it for a period of time instead of giving it something it might interpret as a treat. That said, remember that dogs don't necessarily chain ideas together, so by the time you have physically picked the pup up and walked it elsewhere and given it a toy, it's not likely to associate the toy with the nipping action from 30 seconds earlier. That's why we always talk about the importance of timing with corrections. A poorly-timed correction (or as Kristine would probably say, poorly timed praise) will not be associated with the behavior you were trying to either stop (correction) or encourage (praise).

 

J.

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Last time I checked, that was my right and privilege as an American citizen.

 

First off, give me a break. No one is trying to deny your rights as an American citizen. Get real. Can we avoid the dramatics, please? We're talking about a puppy, for crying out loud.

 

Personally, I find that people who get upset by the fact that I train my dogs simply and successfully without punishment strike me as being very afraid of something.

 

Yes, I am terrified that the training process might take a year and a day when in reality it only needs to take three seconds. You do it your way, I do it mine.

 

Deal with it.

 

Ditto.

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First off, give me a break. No one is trying to deny your rights as an American citizen. Get real. Can we avoid the dramatics, please? We're talking about a puppy, for crying out loud.

 

Yes, we are talking about a puppy. The fact is, though, that there is no one single way to raise a puppy - not for every person and not for every puppy. I know that you and I would agree on that point.

 

Yes, I am terrified that the training process might take a year and a day when in reality it only needs to take three seconds.

 

But I know that you realize that not everyone looks at it the same way that you do. To me - and to some other people - there are things that matter more than getting things done in three seconds. That fact really shouldn't bother anyone, not to my way of thinking, anyway.

 

You do it your way, I do it mine.

 

We agree on that, as well.

 

And you make your training suggestions and I'll make mine. I'm for letting the person asking the question decides what suits him and his dog, or her and her dog.

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Niccru,

Does your pup understand a correction word, like "Ahht!" or "No!" or "Hey!"? If so, you can use that effectively without having to resort to physical punishment or distraction. If not, you can teach a correction word now, but it will involve some physical intercession. If I have a puppy dragging at my ankles/pants,** my first reaction would be a harsh Ahht!. If that didn't stop the little nipper in it's tracks, then I'd probably go to a brief scruff shake or a thump/flick on the nose with a finger next (note that both the scruff shake and the nose thump are used more for their startle factor than as a punishment per se). Usually I don't have to go that far, though, because the pup has understood from day 1 that Ahht! means stop whatever the hell you're doing and find something else to do and so would interpret it correctly in this situation to mean let go of the pants and find something else to do. **In truth, I would probably be watching the pup and time my correction--ahht!--as soon as I noticed the puppy *think* about going for my pants instead of waiting until it had already latched on.

 

That said, I have also used distraction methods, specifically with one pup who was incorrigible about hanging off the face hairs of one of my older dogs. This particular dog is very shy and also very sensitive to harsh tones. Unlike the rest of the pack, she wouldn't correct the puppy for this inappropriate behavior, so of course she became the usual target. If I used a voice correction on the pup, this particular dog took it as a correction of her too. So in that case, I did use a tug toy as a distraction. It enabled me to prevent the puppy from harassing the older dog without scaring the older dog by correcting the puppy with a harsh voice.

 

I find that it's most effective to tailor my training to the situation at hand, including the personalities of the dog(s) involved. My first approach would generally be the one I described in the first paragraph, but because that approach had its disadvantages in the scenario I described above, I tailored my training for that particular situation. Just something to keep in mind. Training isn't always black and white. You can take everyone's ideas and then look at your own situation and try the methods that make the most sense to you.

 

Also if you're worried about nipping = treat, then once you stop the pup from nipping, you could simply ignore it for a period of time instead of giving it something it might interpret as a treat. That said, remember that dogs don't necessarily chain ideas together, so by the time you have physically picked the pup up and walked it elsewhere and given it a toy, it's not likely to associate the toy with the nipping action from 30 seconds earlier. That's why we always talk about the importance of timing with corrections. A poorly-timed correction (or as Kristine would probably say, poorly timed praise) will not be associated with the behavior you were trying to either stop (correction) or encourage (praise).

 

J.

 

Wow, I just used the brief scruff shake method and it worked. Albeit, I had to do it three different times, but I think she got it the third time. We were outside for a potty break and, as usual, after she pee'd she started attacking my ankles. Scruff shake. Thirty seconds later she attacks again. Scruff shake. Sixty seconds later she did it again. Final scruff shake. I was out there with her for almost ten minutes after our third and she didn't once attack me. She just about always nips and tugs when we're out there! I can tell she was very tempted though! She kept playing around my feet and sliding her head against my legs. I just kept praising her (for not attacking me).

 

And while I did the scruff pinch (no more than three seconds), I would say "leave it", since I'm already trying to teach her this command.

 

Hope I'm doing this right.....and that this isn't considered abusive. :/

 

 

Thanks a bunch guys!

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This particular issue is not that big of a deal. I do not negotiate with my puppies. I don't try to convince them that something else is more fun to do. To me, this behavior is unacceptable -- cut and dry.

 

I totally agree with this statement. period. My method is my way of getting at the same concept.

 

The terms that you hate are what DH, the language scholar in the family, would call a specific lexicon. These types of "lexicons" are always offputting to those not in the group that uses them to describe some specialized branch of knowledge. But we all use them. I would say trialing has a very advanced, opaque, specific lexicon. To be put off by the term "Redirection" is understandable, but do you really never try to get your dog's mind off one thing and on to another? If you ever do, that's all that means. Which I'm sure you know (not implying you don't!)

 

One perfectly timed very unpleasant experience for puppy and it will remember.

 

This is the deal for me: I do not like myself when I am physically punishing ANY animal. ESPECIALLY a pet, and ESPECIALLY a puppy. I feel bad after. And I am not just a namby pamby non farm girl or person who "just doesn't know what dealing with animals takes sometimes," who thinks all animals should be coddled and treated like 7th graders at a progressive middle school. I am a biologist. I have killed literally thousands of animals for my profession between working in biomed and as an entomologist. And I personally thought it was worth it for what was gained by it.

 

The thing I've been really excited about lately is that I grew up watching my dad train dogs. He's a great guy, not an evil, immoral person at all. But he did multiple things this board would generally just be upset over. (I mean, the man fed his dogs OL ROY!! :rolleyes:) I thought you had to "take control", using well timed "unpleasant experiences" on a dog to have a good one. My big epiphany lately is that I, at least, just don't. I don't have to have perfect timing or cause unpleasant experiences. I prefer it. And I have a better trained dog at 13 months than my family ever had. I put in 10x the effort, but it shows and we enjoy each other, which is what is important to me. I'm sure you and others with your chosen methods enjoy your dogs too, but the difference, I think, is me. As for the OP's original issue, my dog now never nips anything and is ultra careful and gentle with his mouth, so in our case it did work!

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