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donna frankland (uk)

ot. i dont know how to write this

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Donna,

 

I was a wiccan. Now I'm a nobody is really right or wrong kinda gal :rolleyes: (as long as I don't have to worship in a group- people cause anxiety) Get connected. No matter how we connect with deity we are better off when we do. I've rarely talked about that part of me with many people. Guess it's outed now!

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I mean no disrespect, I was brought up Christian and only know this faith. I was brought up to believe that anything other than worship of God and Jesus was against all of God's laws. (Especially, Thou shalt have no other gods before me).

 

If Wiccan does not violate this law I need to know. Otherwise, you all scare me to death and I fear for your salvation. Let me know if you are in need of my prayers, but I only pray to the one true God who made us all.

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Hmmmmm,

 

Tammy, I really don't know what to say to that. I do not worship the "one, true Christian God" or Jesus. I suppose that means that you should pray for my salvation but I don't think you need to. I am confident in my beliefs.

 

Thanks anyway,

Olivia

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I was just chatting on another forum about religions that have salvation as a big thing. what exactly do you feel we need saving from? (BtW I am not judging, being disrespectful, I am simply curious... I dont understand)

Wicca and other Pagan religions are older than Christianity, we see nature as divine (or I do... everyone is different). There is a God but there is also a Goddess, everyting is equal and in balance (hence the God AND Goddess). You have no need to fear us or for us. If you wish to pray for my soul (I too shall pray for yours :rolleyes: ) feel free - I'll take it a complement, but I am not a bad person and dont need to be saved form whatever evil you think Wicca is.

 

I'm sure other people can explain it better... I have never been any good at trying to put what I mean into words. If it'll help I'll gladly tell you why I became Wiccan.

 

Take care hunny

Claire x

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Actually, I think Clair said it much better than me. Wicca is much older than Christianity and I would also ask what you feel we need saving from?

 

I suppose that if it would make you feel better you can pray for me. I am a good person, no horns or anything that would make me stand out from you if you saw me on the street.

 

I agree that if it helps, I can try to explain why my parents became Wiccan and decided to raise me that way and why I continue to follow it today.

 

Olivia

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I am not judging anyone, I do not think any of you are bad people or anything like that. I feel very firmly that the one true way is Jesus, and I don't think I realized how firmly until just now! There are a zillion problems inherent in Christianity, I am not denying that at all. That is because it has been interpreted by men to mean whatever they need it to mean at the time.

 

I can't believe I am saying this, but I am actually uncomfortable talking about this. I thought I was someone who was open enough to talk about ANYTHING, but you learn about yourself every day, don't you? I was brought up to believe that any other way than through Jesus, was an open door to evil. I do not think any of you are evil or anything like that!

 

Thank you for reaffirming my faith. I pray for all of my friends, and you all have become my friends as you have helped me through all of my dog issues and a few people ones, too. I don't mean to offend you by praying for your salvation. Is your religion mutually exclusive like mine? Can you believe in your faith and still believe in Jesus? Is your salvation meant to take you to the same place mine is?

 

Anything other than Jesus is scary to me. I am sorry for that. I feel anyone going a different direction is one of the "lost". I am sorry if that offends you. There are as many ways to worship God as there are problems in Christianity. My only issue is that God is very exclusive. It is His way or the highway to you know where.

 

Of course there are religions that were present before Christianity. But God came first and Jesus is his Son.

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As someone who has studied the world's religions (as a hobby), I have immense respect for Wiccans. I too was raised as a Christian, and will not apologize for my faith. But I also have come to realize that Wiccans were demonized by the Catholic church because their belief in the equality of men and women posed what Rome perceived as a threat to the "natural" order of things (i.e., a male-dominated hierarchy). That perception continues to taint how many people perceive Wiccans, particularly those who do not know the differentiation between a witch and a warlock.

 

Those interested in a better understanding of Wicca might consider visting this link: Wicca

 

Bottom line: I believe that the value of a person's brief time in this temporary plane of experience is not judged on his/her religious beliefs or other environmental factors, or validated or negated by individual acts. Rather, we are measured on the totality of our lives, and whether we leave this planet a better place than we found it. Humans are subject to judgment on this basis; but using this standard, Border Collies (and all other dogs, for that matter) are guaranteed a wonderful reward in the next plane of existence.

 

But then again, that is just my opinion.

 

Blessed be... (Now, where did I put that torch?)

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Back again, all of the times that God's name has been used to hurt anyone are WRONG WRONG WRONG. God is love, and there is no burning or hurting in love.

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I feel your fear!!! :rolleyes: I guess Tammy's reaction is why I don't really tell many people about being Wiccan. I know she doesn't mean any harm but I've been harassed by people who do. My mom is an elementary school teacher so we have had to be very careful to hide what we are. Sad huh? I guess I don't see why people seem to feel that they need to convert me to Christianity when I have never tried to convert anyone to Wicca.

 

Oh well, stick around Clair so I won't be alone!! :D

 

Olivia

 

PS. Thank you for acknowledging that Christianity has holes in it. That was part of my parents main problem with it, it asks that you take what is given, by a man (preacher) and a book, without questioning anything.

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Tammy you do not need to apologise for your belief's (trust me I've done it all my life its not necessary). We are all trying to get to the same place, call it what you will... I personally do not feel that there is one true path to nirvana/heaven/the after life or what ever you believe. Its each to there own.

 

Bustopher thank you for you insightful comments its not often I get to meet someone who is that understanding/tolerant unless they are Wiccan. Thats even if people know what Wicca is... you say witchcraft and they immediatetly panic.

Blessed Be...

 

Oh and Tammy there are people that call themselves Christian Wiccans or Christian Witches. Hope that helps if you are curious about the combination of the two faiths I can give you and URL to a forum you can read. I am not offended by what you feel, Christianity just wasnt for me, It didnt feel right and made no sense to ME.

 

Olivia, I dont tell many people either, I dont hide it but I dont go out my way to advertise it for fear of a negative reaction, but you cant blame people for not understanding. I just read that Wicca is now the fifth largest religion in the States :rolleyes: :D :D :D :D

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this will probably confuse some of you, but i am pagan and wiccan is probably the nearest 'label' that would fit my beliefs and way of life that i must get back to. BUT i whole heartedly believe in jesus also, the greatest healer to have ever walked on this earth. i think (and this is just my belief i'm not saying anyone is right or wrong) that he walked this earth to show others what can be achieved when ones heart is in the right place, not something to be afraid of but someone to aspire to.

as for the son of god, then yes in the same way as we all are, the sons and daughters of a great loving healing entity. i also dont fear hell, as i dont believe such a place exsists except that hell which we as humans create right here and now, look at the newspapers and the tv and day of the week.

just think what could be achieved if every single person on the planet decided to try and do something about it right now!

again these are just my own personal thoughts, no offence meant to anyone elses beliefs!

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I forgot to mention that... personally I don't believe that there could be a hell. How could a loving god, goddess, or what-have-you, that loves us so much condemn so many wonderful people to hell for simply questioning? I would like to think that there is something better in the hereafter but I don't know.

 

I live my life here on earth the best I can, trying to keep an open mind and lending a hand to whoever might need it. I try to live each day like it is my last, to never say I "have" to do anything as there is always a choice, and to never wish my life away by hoping that the day goes by or that friday would get here faster.

 

Olivia

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oh i dont know! i believe jesus exsisted but i dont know if i could 'worship' him it would be like worshiping my brother! i see him as one of the many people to aspire to and take example from. does that even make sense?! lol

man it is all so clear in my head but why cant i write it down??!

love

donna

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I second Olivia!!!!

Yes Donna that makes perfect sense (to me anyway), I know how you feel as I said earlier I can never say what I mean it gets all cuffudled somewhere between my mind and my mouth/fingers.

Blessings

Claire x

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Well, blessings to you all, again I mean no harm. Christians are compelled to "convert" others by the Bible. It took me a long time to understand this as I believe people have free will to choose how they want to worship. I have trouble with the idea that God would send people to hell for choosing another way, but that is what my Bible says over and over. It is not good enough to just be a good person who loves and does her best to be kind to all creatures.

 

I will avoid trying to convert you if you will avoid trying to convert me! We have many many things we agree on that can be open to discussion.

 

I appreciate Bustopher Jones' comments as well. Historical perspective is always critical to understanding. In general I think all traditional religions have likely done more harm than good in promoting Jesus as the way. Again, this is because God gets filtered through men. But I believe this in spite of what many churches preach and many hypocrites say.

 

I will leave you alone on this subject. I appreciate all of your other helpful insights. I do not mean to cause you pain or judge you, that is not my intention or place.

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Thats the difference between Wicca and Christanity.... we (or at least I) wouldnt dream of trying to convert you hunny :rolleyes: . You are who you are and thank you for being understanding... there are poeple out there who get just plain nasty about it!

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Donna,

 

One more thing, please feel better however you can. All religion aside, depression is a serious issue and you deserve to be happy however that is accomplished.

 

To all

 

Please remember that I have strong feelings and reactions, often getting embroiled in things I wish I hadn't. I am always sorry when I have made someone feel bad. I hope I haven't done that. I am apologizing for all the nasty Christians you have ever run into. That is not what Christianity is supposed to be about. I am sure a lot more Christians have made Jesus cry than any of you have.

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Hey Donna, So would you class yourself as a Christian Wiccan then?
From the Wicca Website:

 

Is it possible to be both a Christian and a Wiccan?

 

It is quite possible for a person to follow a syncretistic religion - a faith involving elements from two or more religions. It is a common practice, particularly in the Far East. Many New Agers blend certain Christian and New Age beliefs and practices. So, a person could both worship the Christian God, believing in the resurrection of Jesus, virgin birth, second coming and other historical Christian teachings; and at the same time believe in selected elements from Wicca, such as respecting nature, caring about the environment, celebrating at solstices, equinoxes, harvest festivals, etc.

 

However, they might not necessarily be viewed as a fellow Christian or a fellow Wiccan by more conventional followers of these two religions.

 

Among liberal Christians, the term Christian has generally been defined much more broadly. For example, some believers might accept as a Christian any person who holds Jesus in reverence, views him as the greatest of prophets, and tries to follow his teachings. Many Wiccans, Humanists, and Unitarian Universalists are able to match this definition.

 

Many Wiccans view Jesus as a great teacher and prophet. So, one could be a Wiccan, believe that Jesus was a great teacher, and be in accordance with many believers in the early Jewish Christian movement, and with some liberal Christians today. Their deity could then be The One with a male and female aspect (my observation - not dissimilar to the belief by some Christians in a God comprised of the Holy Trinity).

 

Curiouser and curiouser...

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Donna, I too have my own struggles with depression. Thank you for sharing with us, and I would never think less of you for it. I second what has been said several times - medication *can* make all the difference. Unfortunately its kind of a trial and error sort of thing - you may not find the right one the first time out of the box. For the time being, until you are able to work on the possibility of medication (if at all) get thee into the sun. Your body will use the sun (convert blah blah seratonin) to make help make you feel a little better. The stinky part is that you're probably not going to FEEL like going out, but do it anyway.

 

While you're at it, take a wee walk with the puppers, and try to eat and sleep regularly. These things WILL help you a little.

 

Its not a boot-strap thing. Many of my (much older) relatives have a "keep your chin up" or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" attitude. I'm here to tell you - its no inadequacy in your character that would make it impossible to do so. Depression is much more complex and difficult than that, and for most the boot-strap method is inefficient.

 

You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

I will be happy at the moment to share my cave and my chocolate with you. With the understanding that I'm the head Cave Troll. Julie's Twist may join us, as she's the Troll under the bed.

 

As to religion, and philosophy, I am a Christian. I believe that people deserve love and respect, whether we agree on religion or not, and regardless of how alike or different we are. There ya have it folks, I love all y'all. But don't even think about calling for a group hug. :rolleyes:

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and to think people are always advising not to satrt a conversation about religion, if the rest of the world were as open minded and loving as the people here we would truly know what heaven is like!

thankyou all for this it has been a real tonic!

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Originally posted by Claire Owen:

Thats the difference between Wicca and Christanity.... we (or at least I) wouldnt dream of trying to convert you hunny :rolleyes: . You are who you are and thank you for being understanding... there are poeple out there who get just plain nasty about it!

I guess I am really more "Pagan" than Wicca; however I do use certain Wicca, let?s just say, "things" in my faith.

 

I think that the above statement is what drew me to Paganism. It is mostly taught in Paganism, and Wicca is a form of Paganism, that to try to "push" your beliefs on someone else is wrong, and to have respect for all people and their faiths. In fact the first book I read on it, recommended studying as many religions as possible, to better acquaint yourself with them.

 

I do believe that Jesus was a person, and was an incredible person, I wish I had the forgiveness that he did. However, I don't believe he was the son of God, and that is just MY opinion. I don't believe in hell, I do believe in some sort of afterlife, and I believe that ALL good people will be there, not just those who believe what I believe.

 

I am VERY careful about talking about my religion to anyone, because I too have been ridiculed and such for it. My son is in high school, and we live in a pretty Christian based city and I would not want MY beliefs to have any effect on how people treat him.

 

To me, faith is a "private" matter. That?s just what I believe. However, Tammy, I respect you, for your beliefs as well. And I do appreciate the fact that while you don't understand, you are not nasty about it.

 

Funny how a depression topic on a Border Collie list turned into religion! :D

 

Tonya

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Originally posted by Tammy525:

To all

 

Please remember that I have strong feelings and reactions, often getting embroiled in things I wish I hadn't. I am always sorry when I have made someone feel bad. I hope I haven't done that. I am apologizing for all the nasty Christians you have ever run into. That is not what Christianity is supposed to be about. I am sure a lot more Christians have made Jesus cry than any of you have.

I have pretty strong reactions to Christianity sometimes. Partly because I believe that nature is the law and we are a small, extremely unimportant part of it - this makes me feel safe, and the idea of us being the center and/or meaning of the universe is just plain terrifying to me. And also because I strongly resent any attempts at converting others, as many Christians try to do.

However, I never got any bad vibes from what you said here. I knew some nasty Christians in school but they were completely different. You don't need to apologize on their behalf :eek: !

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