ot. i dont know how to write this

[Nik]

Tammy first off I want to thank you for having the courage to stand up for what we Christians believe in, but also still having respect for other people at the same time. It's a hard thing to keep peace when it comes to "religions".

 

I never realized that this board family had so many different beliefs. On the flip side (like so many of you were scared to be open about your beliefs for fear of persecution) there are many Christians out there that aren't pushy about trying to convert someone because of the same reasons. Our Holy Bible teaches us to go out and spread the word about Jesus. Not neccesarily shoving it down someones throat.

 

These next statements are not meant to offend anyone so please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to explain in the best way I know how without being pushy. Some of you have had statements made to you about "well if you would have been right with God then bad things wouldn't have happened". That's not the case. Our God is a loving God, and wants everyone to show love to others as well. And other statements have been made about if God is so loving how could He condemn you to hell for not acknowledging. It's not like that. He gave each and every one of us free will to choose whether or not to love him back. He WANTS everyone to end up in Heaven w/ Him. But it's by your choice....He doesn't MAKE you love him.

 

Again, not trying to offend anyone by any means, I just think that alot Christians try and "scare" people into converting, and that's where alot of the bad representation comes in for Christianity. In other words the postive sides of believing in Christ aren't being reinforced.

 

So you see, all of you that were worried about "outing" yourselves for your Wiccan or Pagan beliefs are not alone. There are alot of us Christians that would rather not be persecuted for what we believe in also.

 

I am glad that you as Wiccans had the courage to explain, because now I have a better understanding of what your faith is about. I have to admit, until this thread came along, I would have been scared to death because I was taught that witchcraft is the equivalent of black magic. I won't say that I agree w/ your beliefs (just like I'm not expecting you to agree w/ mine) but I have seen the loving and caring attitudes on this board...not just for the animals but people also...and that's not evil in my book.

 

I hope all this makes sense when I'm finished writing this. I'm one of those that I know what my heart is telling me, but I just can't put it into words.

 

P.S. to Donna...see all that worrying about apologizing, and everyone has more admiration for you for it. I know its easier said than done at this point, but try and keep your spirits high so you can get through this...please don't think you have to go through this alone.

[Tonya]

Tammy,

 

I believe, and don't hold me 100% to this, that the Islamic religion also believes that there is only one true path and one true person to salvation. They believe that Jesus was a prophet and a good man but that Muhammad is the "God" or Allah. And I am of course talking about people who have read the Koran and like you, Tammy, take it for what it means, not the religious zealots who have turned it into a terrorism "how to" book!

 

I also think that while we as Wiccans are afraid to do too much ?sharing? of our beliefs because of persecution, that currently anyone who is a true follower of Islam is, indeed, in a hard spot right now.

 

(My next door neighbors are Pakistani, and extremely nice. EVERY year, they bring a basket of fruit to all their neighbors on Christmas Eve to show their respect for "the American" religion, even though they do not celebrate Christmas, and do celebrate Ramadan. I have always thought they were the type of people that the Koran and Muhammad would have wanted the world to see as to what they believe in)

 

 

(edited - I of course always accept their gift, and provide them with a small gift of homemade candles as well, even though i don't believe in "Christmas" so to speak. They don't know I am Pagan, and they are just doing something nice.)

 

Tonya

PS - if I have made spelling errors on Islamic words, I apologize

[Tammy525]

My question is: Is Jesus the only man to proclaim himself the Son of God? Not path, not road to enlightenment, but Son of God, "no man cometh to the Father except by me."

 

Does the Koran or Buddhism prophecy about a Messiah to intercede for us with God?

 

Did Mohhamed (sp?) proclaim himself to be the promised one, the Son of God? My understanding is that Islam believes that there is one Allah and Mohhamed was his prophet. Is that correct?

 

My DH says that the Dali Lama remains a constant person because when the person who is the Dali Lama dies he is reincarnated into the new Dali Lama? Maybe often found as a child? Is the Dali Lama one guy or is he several people who have held a title, like the Pope?

 

I think that Islam is a great example to use to explain one of the points I am trying to make. Islam as a religion promotes the tenets I stated above, kindness, love to fellow man, peace, service to others, etc. The terrorists have twisted this religion for their own use in a dreadful way. This has happened in Christianity over and over. It would be unfair to categorize Islam as "bad" because it has spawned terrorists. It is also unfair to judge Christianity based on the bad Christians who are out there. It is unfair to judge Jesus based on the people you know who meant you harm. (or were just hopelessly ignorant and hurt you without even meaning to)

 

So I guess I have mostly historical kinds of questions, I guess I should have paid more attention in my religion class in college, but of course it only covered Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. We really need a broader view, don't we?

 

I think you have answered all my questions about Wicca, which I appreciate. I repeat that any kindness or tolerance brought into this world is a good thing, and it sounds like Wicca does that. I can't agree with it, it would be really wrong for me, but I understand why you have chosen the path you have.

 

Oh, and I really love my supergreat dog.

[Tonya]

Denise, I will do my best to answer your questions from my point of view. As Claire said, we all believe things a little bit differently.

 

1. Ostara? What is it? Seems like an easter sort of thing? Spring celebration? Fasting? Like lent?

Ostera is the spring equinox. And Pagans/Wiccans celebrate it as a way of celebrating all that comes from spring. The crops are starting to grow; animals are starting reproduce, etc. ?Easter? eggs are a Pagan tradition. The egg is the perfect form of fertility, and in ancient times they were painted and given as gifts to tell your friends you hope that their life is abundant. They say the Easter egg hunts started when the witch trials started. Since you would be condemned by giving gifts such as this, people ?hid? them for their neighbors. The ?Easter Bunny? is also associated with the Goddess Oestre, and is a sign of fertility. The reason some fast at this time is to cleanse the body of the winter food, much heavier, not as fresh, etc, and to make the body ready for ?fresh? meals.

 

2. Wicca defines gods and goddesses? Is it based on everything or are there higher gods?

I am not entirely sure what you mean by this question either. Most Wiccans believe in a duality of deities, that is you can?t have a male deity without a female one, because if not, where would the male have come from? There is no ?Bible? for Wicca. There is a certain creed, but other than that, you can?t be wrong because your beliefs are a bit different than someone else?s. I personally believe in ?a? God and ?a? Goddess, but I do not give them a certain name, while many do. I also believe in an energy force that is a part of the God and the Goddess and everything else in nature.

 

3. Is the sex of the god important? Stressed? Observed?

 

Yes, The Goddess is probably more important, because it is from her that life comes from. However most pagans still believe in a duality.

 

4. How do other religions factor into Wicca? (Many other popular religions spend a lot of their energy putting down other religions and explaining how they are wrong and they are right, etc. How, if at all, does Wicca explain/deal/treat other religions?)

 

Interesting question and I think could be taken a few different ways. I have already said, one of the main things that drew me to Paganism is the fact that it is unheard of to put down other people?s religions. We believe there is a place for everyone. On a different note, I think Catholicism factors greatly into Paganism/Wicca, because in the ancient times, the people who were trying to ?convert? the multitude of Pagans into Christianity realized that by incorporating pagan ideas into Christianity, they would have an easier time with it. One such example is that of the Easter egg and the Easter Bunny!

 

5. What is the benefit of practicing Wicca?

 

To me, that is like saying, what is the benefit of practicing Christianity? The benefit for me is that it is how ?I? feel connected to the earth and to a ?higher being?. I would say that most people of any religion would say the same about their religion.

 

6. Why do you feel Wicca is the way for you?

 

I have said before I am more Pagan than actual Wicca. However, I did ?find? Paganism myself, from studying many different religions and for me, it was how I felt. I can?t tell you how it was for me to go through most of my life, picking up a little from that religion and a little from this one, but never really feeling like I ?belonged? anywhere, Then I read a book on Paganism and said, WOW! This is how I felt my whole life, and I never knew this religion was out there and there are other people who feel the same way? WOW! Paganism gives me the opportunity to ?talk? to my Deity, without having to go to church, etc. It suggests that ?God? is all around us, all the time, in everything living. I can cast a circle in my living room, bedroom, or on top of a mountain, and I feel close to my beliefs.

 

7. How would it benefit others?

 

I don?t think that is a fair question to ask of a Pagan/Wiccan. Because we don?t believe that ?our? religion is the ?right? way for everybody and we don?t believe that you have to believe the exact same as us. I think that it would benefit many others to actually study their own religion and find the goodness in it, instead of the badness. Something that I think Tammy has a great grip on!

 

8. Why do some of you feel the need to keep it quiet?

 

Well, umm, in ancient times they burned witches at the stake! People do not go that far now, at least I hope, but they do still persecute us. Other religions have taught people to think that we are evil, worship the devil, cast spells and turn people into toads; we sacrifice cats in our backyard rituals, and sell our souls. Which of course, NONE of that is true. But since Pagans/Witches have been persecuted since Christianity came into being, we are just a little ?weary? of what most people will say. I said before I have a son in high school who is graduating this year. He is 5th in his class, an athlete, a national Academic award winner and has applied to many colleges, including MIT. What if the people of this town found out I was Pagan/Wicca and my name ends up in the paper, and etc, etc, etc?. what if MY beliefs harmed his future. I don?t want to do that to him (He is a very old 18, BTW and Agnostic, but doesn?t tell his friends that either.) Besides for me Religion and Paganism is a solitary thing.

 

Okay hope that gives you an idea of my beliefs!

 

Tonya

[Lunar]

Tammy - I *think* you are right about the Islam beliefs being that Mohammed was their prophet, not an incarnation of Allah. So perhaps you would be right that Jesus would be the only one claiming to be the son of god.

 

And I think you were so right about Islam and Christianity as well. The loud few who twist it all makes it much harder for those who follow with love and kindness in their hearts.

 

Some of you have had statements made to you about "well if you would have been right with God then bad things wouldn't have happened". That's not the case. Our God is a loving God, and wants everyone to show love to others as well. And other statements have been made about if God is so loving how could He condemn you to hell for not acknowledging. It's not like that. He gave each and every one of us free will to choose whether or not to love him back. He WANTS everyone to end up in Heaven w/ Him. But it's by your choice....He doesn't MAKE you love him.

Nik - I understand! I was just trying to explain how I feel about the matter, which I am very sure is different from the Christian view. I have had many friends and other people explain it to me like you have.

 

I am really hoping to go back to college, maybe for a masters, maybe just for fun. But I so want to take some theology classes. I took a bunch of Philosophy classes in the last two years, which I also find fascinating.

[Claire Owen]

Tonya you explained it wonderfully I wish I could say what I mean with that much ease!

Olivia mentioned spells I would just like to elaborate on that a little. Yes some of us cast spells (I have) but our magick is not evil or scary it is about finding the magic within yourself NOT manipulating your surroundings or other people. The power is in nature. Again the Wiccan Creed applies here An' It Harm Non Do As Ye Will!

As for the burning times, Witches/women in general were persecuted and its something thats hung around... although not to the same extent. Women accused of being a Witch were thrown in a river, if they floated they were a Witch and burned at the stake. If they sank, they werent a Witch but they'd drowned anyway. I believe that it was in Germany the Witch hunts were so bad that entire villages were left without women!

And I think, I'm not 100% sure, that there was a law about Witchcraft in the UK until about 50 years ago... which is reletively recent!!!

 

And as for easter eggs and bunnies I think again it was a German tale of the Goddess Eostre/Ostara turning her chicken into a rabbit who then laid brightly coloured eggs that were given to the children. But yes the egg is a perfect symbol of fertility so Pagans still use it in Ostara celebrations plus it is this time of year when the chickens would lay more eggs... another thing to be celebrated.

 

Olivia, I would love to learn the runes, I havent got around to that yet but I have always had a gift with Tarot/Fortune cards... to the extent where I wont use them any more as I've seen things, bad things that actually happened. I havent done a reading since xmas eve 4 years ago, I saw a death in the family and sure enough my uncles long-term boyfriend died on boxing day! That was the last time, I decided I didnt want to know anymore! Funnily enough I was 10 when I first did Tarot cards I saw saw two things, we were going to come into some money and someone would die. A few days later my dad won ?500 on the horses and a week later my great nan died... my Mum banned me from reading the Cards ever again in her house- understandable really. Of course it could all be a coincidence, my hubby didnt believe until he saw me read that Christmas, that scared him (and me).

 

And here is a link to some bumper stickers I saw, some are funny. i hope non are offensive!!!!

 

Blessings all

Claire x

 

PS- I still cant believe what a wonderful conversation this is, everyone is being so understanding and civil... its great!

 

Oh and Tammy if you have any historical questions about Wicca/PAganism.. I may be able to answer some.

[Olivia]

Hi all!

 

I guess I should have been more clear about spells. I feel that by focusing my goals that I can make it clearer in my mind how to accomplish it. At no point have I danced around wishing harm on anyone! :eek: One time I did light some candles, draw a circle and meditate on getting into vet school. I didn't think that the candles and words would make my name appear out of thin air on the acceptance list. Instead it made me really think about wanting to go to school and it made me have faith in myself and look what happened!

 

You have to admit that many people wouldn't understand or even want to try to understand about Wicca. They would automatically assume I worship the devil! I think it is highly possible that my business would suffer if people knew and I don't think that is a worry that Christians have.

 

I very much enjoy reading the runes but I have seen some disturbing things. I try to concentrate on the good stuff! My parents feel it is a gift, neither of them can read runes or tarot.

 

Olivia

[prosperia]

Tammy, I understand your question. (Im not preaching guys, Im just clarifying

Jesus is a bridge between us and God. When we pray, we pray to him and he brings our needs before God. Christianity is based on the "Law". Rules that are laid down that man had to follow. God is not anger, and he is not love. He is the word, the law. Jesus, as Gods son, was pure. Jesus is Love. He sacrificed his life, so that we could enter heaven. He paid the price for the sins that all man commit. When he accended into heaven, he left us with the last of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. The still small voice in your heart that tells you when something is wrong. The comforter, when life gets tough.

So, thats Christianity in a nutshell.

When I look at it in its simplist form, to me, it means, that to believe in Jesus, is to believe that Love and faith is your salvation. To follow what He showed us is the most important principle to base your life on. Not that you must follow a specific religion or set of beliefs strictly.

I believe that has all been manufactured by man.

[Lunar]

prosperia - That's something I've never really understood... How did Jesus dying save humankind, how did he allow you to enter heaven? Why couldn't you have gone to heaven before then? Does that mean that all those people who lived before Jesus' time are in Hell?

 

Not critisising, just hoping for clarification and explanation!

[smileyzookie]

Originally posted by Lunar:

How did Jesus dying save humankind, how did he allow you to enter heaven? Why couldn't you have gone to heaven before then? Does that mean that all those people who lived before Jesus' time are in Hell?

Due to the original sin of the temptation of Adam and Eve, every person has been born into a sinful world. In order to enter heaven and be in God's presence is to have no sin. The ONLY way to pay for sin is death. Before Jesus Christ, God accepted the sacrifice of animals in exchange for these sins. It was not the act of killin the animal or shedding its blood that allowed their sins to be taken away, but the faith (or belief)in what God had stated through his prophets that by doing so their sin was taken way. God in all his wisdom realized that humanity couldnt keep goin like this forever. So in an act of complete love toward us he sent his son to DIE on a cross.

 

The son of God (Jesus) had NO sin, perfect in every way, a being that could enter heaven, took on every single persons sins in existance. He died for mine, yours.. everyones sins. The act of Jesus dying is not what saves you alone. Its the belief and trust in God -like if I believe Jesus died for my sins (Which I do) and accept that, that is the act that leads to salvation or goin to heaven.

 

That is the way I believe, anyone who thinks I've butchered it please feel free to correct me.

[Lunar]

Ahhhh, okay! Thanks!

[Claire Owen]

Hi Olivia, Here are some of the Ostara recipes I have. Let me know which ones you'd like and I'll pm you with them. I have more somewhere and I'll let you know when I find them... Trying to organise my BoS so I have stuff everywhere at the min!!!!

Flowery Canapes

Welsh Bake Stones

Almond Paste Dates (Yuck)

Ostara Stuffed Eggs

Honey Cakes

White Almond Bark

Hunny Bunny Bread

Apricot Balls

Poppy Seed Cheese Bread

Violet Salad

Green Man Salad with Green Dressing

Hot Cross Buns

 

Blessed Be

[Tammy525]

SmileyZookie,

 

I thought you did a great job. I want all of the Wiccans to remember how kind Jesus was to women as well. The church has not been so kind, historically, as well as being a significant contributer to the oppression of women and children. Jesus is about love and acceptance, respecting the rights of all God's children. (men, women, and children). He talked about how women should be treated, respected, born to be what women should be, of their own minds and fulfilling all the purposes God gives them, making their own choices, etc. (I am NOT talking barefoot and pregnant purposes, women are the only ones who can do that, but they have many other purposes which may even exclude those things)

 

I am not bad-mouthing churches, I love my church and feel very good about bringing my children up in it. But churches are run by people and people can be compromised by power and glory, and they can become very misguided in how they protect their power and glory. Jesus says God deserves the glory and I believe this. It is easy to become disillusioned with God because your church screws up. Don't let this happen. Protect your relationship with God and Jesus. A good church is like a good therapist, you might have to try a few first and even then the relationship might not be forever. But your mental health is what matters, not the relationship with the therapist, however helpful to your mental health it may be. Churches help your Christian life because they encourage the things that keep you close to Jesus. Like a therapist or support group helps your mental health, like weight watchers helps you lose weight., etc. But if the group isn't working, you can't lose sight of your goal of good mental health, or a relationship with God, or losing weight, etc.

 

The best resource for learning about what Christianity is about is the Bible. I would read the book of Luke in the New Testament first. It tells the story of Jesus start to finish and why he came. The first four books of the New Testament tell the story of Jesus from different perspectives, there is some repetition. The book of Acts describes the early church and how they progressed in their following of Jesus after he rose again and ascended to Heaven, leaving his Holy Spirit and disciples to establish the church. His disciples failed him plenty, but most of them were eventually successful. This is important to me because if they can fail and Jesus still loves them and helps them, then it is ok for me to fail, be forgiven, pick up and try again.

 

As an example, when an adulterous woman was about to be stoned (where was the adulterous man???, nowhere to be found) the crowd standing in a circle, Jesus stepped in and said, "Let he is without sin cast the first stone." Think that lady got out of that ok? Yes she did. And Jesus said he did not condemn her either, now go and sin no more. (John 8:3) There would be no burned or drowned witches if Jesus was in the hearts of the would-be town. I am NOT comparing Wiccans to adulterers, so sorry if that was how it sounded!!

 

The church is there to help you worship. There are as many ways to worship as there are people personalities! Which means you have a lot of options.

 

Still not trying to convert anyone, I promise. It is just hard to feel so right in the world, so loved by my Jesus, so supported by my church, so peaceful in my Bible study, I want to share it so everyone can feel this joy. I recognize this is not the only way to feel this deep peace and joy, for me it is the easiest and most sure.

 

That was long, sorry, I know everyone is just trying to do right, and feel love and acceptance in this world. (that's why we love our dogs so much, they do all of this very easily!)

[Claire Owen]

Ok I have a few questions about the Bible and Christianity, if someone wouldnt mind trying to answer them. They are not intended to cause offence and if I seem ignorant I am sorry but I have never understood Christianity... I thought the Bible was a story book and nothing more as a young child. So please forgive me if I upset anyone.

 

If Jesus was the first to stand up for womens rights etc how come the only women in the Bible were prostitutes (as I was tought in secondary school, our RE teacher was a Reverend and she wouldnt answer these questions)?

 

Where does incest, killing your brother, famines, plagues etc fit in with an all loving God?

 

Do you actually believe the Adam and Eve story despite science?

 

If so why was there no mention of dinosaurs ruling the earth long before we turned up?

 

I dont know if I believe Jesus ever existed or not but its not important to me. So please forgive if these questions seem really silly but its things like this that have kept me from ever believing anything written in the Bible.

Again I did not mean to upset or offend anyone, I am not trying to turn you against your belief, far from it. It'd be a real shame for you to loose faith and that is the last thing I am trying to do.

 

Claire x

[Tammy525]

Claire,

 

Everyone has those questions, at least anyone who has actually given any thought to how we got here!

 

There are countless women in the Bible, Old and New Testament which were not prostitutes. Just off the top of my head: Ruth, Naomi, Rachel, Rebekkah, Esther, Mary, Martha, Mary Magdalene, there are many many. There are books and books written about the women of the Bible.

 

Incest, killings are abmonitions against God. People have free choice and do not always choose God's ways. In the Old Testament, people sinned and were punished. (plagues, famines) In the New Testament, Jesus protects us from deliberate punishments from God. Natural disasters, etc., that happen now are not punishments. I believe they are the work of Satan, which Eve introduced to the world in the Garden. God does sometimes allow bad things to happen (doesn't do anything to stop it), but then you can see him work through those awful things to bring people closer to Him. The Bible says it "rains on the just and the unjust" but in the end those who trust Him, prevail. You may not always see exactly why God lets something awful happen, or it might be right there in front of your face (ie, when my niece died, my brother was in a really awful place in life, my niece's hospice worker fell for him hook, line, and sinker and I believe saved my brother's life. Without her intervention, I don't think my brother would be alive today.) There are several instances of extreme circumstances surrounding my niece, that I feel could only be the work of God.

 

The Adam and Eve story: I do not take that story absolutely literally. I believe the general principles, but the details came through men and were written long after they happened. So there might be things missing or added or glossed over because the knowledge of how the earth really works just wasn't there at the time. There are many many unexplainable things in this world, I think the Adam and Eve thing is part of this picture. Dinosaurs are open to MUCH discussion at my house as to how they fit into the creation story. We have some serious dinosaur fans and obviously, they roamed the earth. But we don't feel the existence of dinos in any way threatens our faith. It just isn't something we have a factual explanation for yet.

 

I firmly believe that Jesus existed, part of what is so convincing to me (besides the daily presence in my life and the things that happened with my niece) is that fact that books written hundreds of years before Jesus was born detail what his life will be and what it will mean. This prophecy was from God and described what Jesus would be like and what would happen to Him.

 

Questions are a necessary part of any education and I am so sorry that your teacher did you such a disservice in dismissing those questions. I went through a time in my life during college, where I decided no rational person could believe in all that hoo-ha. I couldn't understand how my dad, who is a brilliant professor could be so stupid about religion. Then I started my real life and found out that God is a lot smarter than I am and my finite mind cannot always comprehend how He works. That is where faith comes in. Once my mind was a little open to the idea that God was really out there, things started happening to confirm his existence.

 

Don't worry, there is nothing you could do to shake my faith in the least, I have seen it, I have lived it, and I believe it with all my heart.

 

I am sorry you scared me at first. I am embarrassed by my initial prejudice. I have learned a lot about how much the church has hurt Christianity, and I appreciate you convincing me Wiccans are not a bunch of Satan worshippers!

[Lunar]

Also... in my experience there are a lot of variance in what people believe... like about adam and eve and dinosaurs and everything. I've met som christians who firmly believe that god created earth in exactly 7 days and dinosaurs did not exist. Others I've talked to believe a lot of the "history" given in the bible are more for lessons' sake and not actual fact. And I've met a lot who explained like Tammy do, that it all kind of fits together somehow. It also varies from church to church! Every person has their own reasons for believing what they do.... I like to have discussions with all my friends, everyone has such widely different beliefs.

 

I really need to read the bible one day. I tried, but apparently I started with a boring story. (I decided to start at the beginning and work forward!) I didn't get very far before I just couldn't focus and had to find other things to do... and never got back to it!

 

One thing I've always wondered though... if God is all-powerful and all-knowing (which I think he is, in Christianity, yes?) then how or why does he allow Satan to exist, to bring evil into the world? I understand the idea of balance, of God/Satan, evil/good - but how does that mesh with the idea that God is omnipotent?

[donna frankland (uk)]

oh wow!

what a thread this has turned out to be!!

i have never seen faith and religion discussed so lovingly and thoughtfully anywhere else!

of all the place for people to say what is in their hearts who would have guessed it would have been a border collie forum!

 

anyhoo, i went to my reiki meeting and it was WONDERFUL! i cried like a baby and feel so much better for it, i recieved some wonderful healing from some wonderful people.

before i went i also did something i thought i would never be able to do (which probably wont seem like a big deal but to me it was). i have a phobia of foreign bodies in my flesh, needles splinters etc its not the pain that worries me but the thought of something 'in' my flesh if that makes sense?

I DONATED BLOOD!!!! i now have the world biggest bruise and they were only able to collect half the amount needed for a transfusion type of donation, but it is still enough for them to be able to use as research material, i feel so good!

i finally plucked up the courage after my friend was diagnosed with testicular cancer, the chemo didnt cure it totally and they need to remove the tumor, trouble is it may be attached to a main artery and if it is he will lose up to 5 pints of blood during the op! if that isnt reason enough to get over a fear i dont know what else would be.

i have been out for some lovely walks, i went to glastonbury for lunch today, and feel much better. i still want councelling as i want to try and find out why i can feel like this, but i wont panic now if its not for a few weeks. and i am sure the st john's wort is really helping too.

thankyou all for being here!

love

donna

[Lunar]

Donna! I'm so glad you're feeling better. I'm glad you're finding things in your life like reiki to help you out.

 

I can say I understand your "foreign objects" phobia... I've never been able to explain it, but that's how I feel too, to a degree. I got my ears pierced when I was 12... it freaked me out so bad! I took them out and never put them back in. I've never had a surgery, and the thought of doctors sticking things in me/cutting me open makes me panic so bad.

 

Anyways, yay for you!

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

It'd be a real shame for you to loose faith and that is the last thing I am trying to do.

LOL, I grew up in San Francisco and went to a state university - a comparatively liberal one here in the South - when I went to UNC-G they used to call it "UNC-Gay". I don't think they do that now, of course (since that was pretty nasty no matter how you cut it)!

 

Anyway, I've more than reconciled my faith with the reality I face every day, and I'm satisfied. My new farm name is Irena, which means harmony in Koine Greek.

 

I think that God gave us the gift to "know ourselves", to be able to get to know Him (our reason for being, in fact), and the ability to rise above and act outside of the framework of things that "just are." We can move beyond the clockwork world, in other words.

 

So we have free will. But there is no free will without actual choice, so we're given the choice - obey him, or not. We've all somewhere along the way made the wrong choice, rejected God's love, and gone our own way. Unfortunately, that's a mistake that results in permanent rejection from His fellowship, since that makes one a rebel. It all follows from this.

 

OK, so that's a starting place - that's the way I "decode" things and it's held up pretty well.

 

Bible reading: I'd recommend getting a good modern English translation and starting in I John. Finish the "Johns" then skip back over to the Gospel written by John, which is his account of Christ's life. Then I'd read Romans, which is Paul's thesis describing the mechanics of redemption and an apologetic for the Christian lifestyle.

 

Then check out the section in the library that has C.S. Lewis. In addition to writing some pretty cool children's fantasies, he was a great Christian writer who could put these basic questions in a modern context. His writing is comparatively light, sympathetic, and far from "preachy". Surprised by Joy is quite short and answers a lot of the basic questions people have in one work. If you are into fantasy, check out his science fiction works starting with Out of the Silent Planet. And The Screwtape Letters are both amusing and a pithy commentary on modern life.

 

Hope this helps. Religion - a good topic for Sunday, right?

[KJ]

Donna

I really hope you are feeling perhaps a little better today. Just know it will pass. I've read there's actually a reason for depression and it needs to be explored and while it's painful, there can be a benefit. It's like a necessary evil.

 

I've had depression all my life as well accompanied by major anxiety. Meds will help coupled with couseling. Sometimes family and friends, while needed, are not the best to talk to but it's a third party that helps bring some healing. It can be a lonely place, but now you know, you are not alone! Feel free to pm me anytime you need to...really.

 

The folks on this board are exceptional. There's a camaraderie that has always amazed me. They've helped me through some really tough times with Shep. They pulled through as a place I could go that wasn't sick to death of hearing about him. Not only listening but comiserating, offering advice, some hand holding, contacts etc.. I even went to see a shrink about Shep b/c he totally drove me over the edge. Apparently they don't teach dog/people counseling in school. It was here where I found what I needed.

 

Please keep coming to the board.

 

Peace to you. Know the storm will lift.

Kim

[Tammy525]

I am glad you posted Donna, I was worrying a little that we had so hijacked your thread that you had given up on us. I am very glad you have found some helpful support, never stop trying to find peace.

[donna frankland (uk)]

hijack away, i have really enjoyed reading about other peoples beliefs etc, and hugely appreciate others sharing their experiences with depression it really does help to know you are not alone! and if nothing else we sure all know each other better now!

[sandra s.]

So glad it helped!

 

And I really liked this discussion too. I learned a lot (I'd never heard about Wicca before! ) and smiled a lot!

[Miztiki]

For anyone who is suffering from depression, there is something that is helpful. It really helps to talk, and talk, and talk, and talk about what's on your mind. That's what therapists are all about, and that's also one reason why we are told to pray. When you say things out loud it makes you consider things, and it also takes the sting out a little bit every time.

 

There's a book called Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard I believe. It's been many, many years since I've read that book but he discusses this very thing and there really is alot of truth in it.

 

So consider praying, or talking to yourself out loud. It really is helpful. Heck, I'm sure all of us have talked things over with our dogs at one time or another!

 

I would really, really like to participate in the discussion about the bible and all of that, but I don't know if it's appropriate for this forum. If Eileen doesn't mind then I will.

[Lunar]

... and if you have no one to talk to, WRITE! I've been an avid writer since my highschool days. Whether it's a notebook by my bed or a Word file on my computer, I write about EVERYTHING. It helps since I'm such a hermit.