juliepoudrier Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Poor Fly. And poor you for having to deal with it. Yeah, jett was probably mentally harassing Fly all day long. Willow and Jill do that if crated where they can see one another. I hate to say it, but at some point you might have to consider rehoming one or the other of them. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Consider getting some Direct Stop/Spray Shield citronella spray - it'll help break up fights without the need for screaming or yelling or hurting anyone. In fact I'm going to be ordering a canister this week given that Maggie and Z had an altercation this week and this thread's warnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Yeah, the spray is a good idea. I hate that it would get Fly too though -- she is utterly blameless. I am not thinking rehoming. There have been no serious injuries -- yet (I believe that when dogs really mean it, there are) and I can keep them separated if things stay like this. Fly, my washed-up old has-been, is definitely not going anywhere, she has earned her retirement home and is as sweet as the day is long. Jett is my little black torpedo, and my husband's favorite, and otherwise stellar. Hopefully we can resolve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Nothing to add, just wanted to say how sorry I am that you and Fly have to deal with this, hopefully temporary setback. Naughty Jett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hey, Melanie. Really sorry you're going through this. This is as tough as it gets, I think. The one time I had this issue, I guess I didn't realize just how serious it was for a long time, having never been through it before. There was some posturing and the evil eye stuff, but I usually just told them both to knock it off and we went on our way. They were always great outside together, and worked as a great brace team a lot. The problem was always in the house, and I know it had to do with me--the younger one (a niece) was always vying for position. It became her life's mission and consumed every moment of her being. It really wasn't her fault--that's just who she was. It escalated, and eventually, it even began to affect her work. She was miserable, and so was everyone in the household. Fortunately, she was a wonderful working dog, so I sold her to a friend, and they are now both very happy, as she can be the queen bitch. I get to see her at trials, and the two girls now seem genuinely happy to see each other. I now have her daughter. I have seen little hints of her mother's behavior, and being able to recognize it much earlier, hopefully have quashed any thoughts the daughter may have in that direction. But Julie may be right--you may have to forever keep them totally apart, which is a major drag, or rehome one. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I hurt for you. I too have been there, and the only thing that truly remedied my problem was to get rid of the problem husband (now ex) and problem dog. I wouldn't suggest that for you though. One of the worst knock down dragouts Ginger and Bree ever had was literally coming out of crates where they were next to each other - and had evidently been trash talking all day. Some dogs will hold grudges too. Anyway, you've already received some excellent advice. I will say that with careful management on my part I managed to get the knock-downs down to about once every six months. When the two offenders (ex and dog) left there was a very palpable letting go of tension. Lots of good calming thoughts and vibes going out to you guys. I can imagine how stressful this must be for all of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambambuli Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Sorry to hear this is escalating. Jett seems to have fallen into a pattern pretty fast. Maybe this was going on longer than you thought, only without the actual attacking ... Is there any way you could elevate Fly's status in Jett's mind, especially since you mentioned that Jett was your husband's favorite? She might be picking up on cues like that, and believe it's her right to go after Fly? Poor Fly. Glad she is able to shake it off so well! Hoping for a peaceful outcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Sorry to hear this is escalating. Jett seems to have fallen into a pattern pretty fast. Maybe this was going on longer than you thought, only without the actual attacking ... Is there any way you could elevate Fly's status in Jett's mind, especially since you mentioned that Jett was your husband's favorite? Poor Fly. Glad she is able to shake it off so well! Hoping for a peaceful outcome! I don't think the answer is in elevating the status of the dog who is being picked on. That creates more stress and problems. If anyone is to have the elevated status, it's the owner, who ultimately calls all the shots. In these sort of situations, I've let the offenders know that they are lower than dirt, that it's MY house, and I control the food and the structure of their lives. This is done without yelling but firmness and consistency. Granted, it won't eradicate the problem and they still will probably have to be separated, but the upstart learns that he or she has to defer to you first. It not a good feeling to be lower than dirt. ETA - I've had to deal with a hormonal 100 lb. non-bc bitch -- that was tough, but to this day, she remembers that she can very easily become lower than dirt. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrasmom Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 And just to give you a bit of hope, when one of my "adopted out" dogs was returned, a pit bull, because she went after a goat I had serious bitch on bitch aggression between her and Gracie, my 38 lbs BC. The aggression started quite a few months after MomDog was returned. It was all Gracie's fault as she clearly was giving MomDog hard stares and trying to bully her but obviously when a fight broke out, Gracie was on the losing end of it. It took a few months of careful management and letting them both know that those behaviors were not to be tolerated. It was extremely important for us to learn to not "anticipate" any kind of violence as all it took was the hair on the back of my neck to stand up as they looked at each other and Gracie would go for it. So, lots of deep breaths on our part and distracting both of them right away. Miraculously (at least that's how it seemed to us) after a few months of this, they came to a mutual understanding and now very happily cohabitate and even sleep together. I'll give big props to MomDog who is very very soft when it comes to our instructions and wants to please us more than anything. She knows she is not allowed to engage. Jett coming up on that magic age and being in heat is probably not herself but it doesn't mean she can get away with it regardless. One question I do have though, as you've said Fly does not engage at all, does Jett actually go for blood or is it a lot of show? Maria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizmo Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I wanted to chime in and say I wouldn't look at rehoming one of them just yet. We had the same problem with two males. The one that was causing these "unknown" attacks (alot like you exlpained between Jett and Fly) got the snip and we thoroughly squashed any behavior resembling an attack or him being a brat to the other male. They could be together, but were always 110% supervised. It's been about 4 months since he got neutered and it's gotten alot better. We haven't had him "attack" (I write it like that because he never actually left wounds on the other male) in a while and his attitude has improved so much. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Jett's been in season for about two weeks (her second season). A few days before she started bleeding, she began attacking Fly. These attacks have not been serious yet in the sense that Fly has not been badly hurt (a small puncture wound on her chest, and one on an elbow -- note the locations) but they are very aggressive and Jett is very determined. I just popped in here quickly and saw your post, so I haven't read all the replies, so at the risk of being repetitive could this be hormonal? Was she like this before she came into heat. If this is her second heat cycle, and she didn't do it with her first heat cycle, the first heat cycle may have been milder. Some bitches become, well, TOTAL bitches when they come into heat. Just liike some mares. My sister has a mare that truned into a abosultely wacko thing when she cycled - you couldn't ride her, she would try to kick, bite etc - she was horrid - a real Jekyll and Hyde thing. THe rest of the time she was the suckiest sweetest thing you could ever find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 When I first read the title of the thread, I thought we were talking about "The View"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 My only suggestion besides keeping them separated, is to spay Jett as soon as she is done with this heat. Even though spaying won't change the overall behavior of the dog, it will stop the hormonal fluctuations of the heat cycles and should make the whole situation easier to deal with. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 just a quick note: I would not spay without first seeking advice from a professional. Although neutering can often help with inter-dog aggression, inter-bitch aggression is a different can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flrpwr52 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Just adding that I to have inter bitch fighting and the sound that would come out of me when they started to fight I have never heard from another human. What made things easier for me and calmed me was to have all 3 drag a short length of rope. That way if one starts posturing or giving the look I can grab the rope and walk them away quickly as I do a sign song way of telling that dog she did wrong and now she is in time out. If I don't sing the words I tend to sound more mad so signing works for me. The rope has seemed to change their behavior. I know it sounds crazy and simple but we have not had a fight in months. All three are spayed, ages 4, 3 and 2. Most fights happened between the 2 and 4 year olds. If my dogs have to drag a rope, for me, that's better than having to keep them separated. I know the pain in watching your dogs fight and not getting along. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCheaven Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 I thank you all so much for posting this I want to share this link. I have a younger female who is taken charge. She is 18 months and just now showing signs of trigger areas gated areas access to kitchen her crate etc. I will be really careful from here on out, I have two other girls one 5 who will stand up for herself and one 7 who is a total pacifist. My male is a total DOM but the little bitch won’t hesitate to let him know she’s not gotta take his crap. If he mean business she will back down which is good. If she’s pissed at him she will release pressure on the others occasionally giving a warning. I have been watching her really close as the older girls are approaching heat. The pressure release is mostly on the male since he is the bully. I would never have another male with him. The more females you have you have to protect the omega girl. The trigger areas are resource guarding and jealously of her humans proximity to humans, and her crate so I remove the food dish when not occupied. They can’t see each other when they eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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