Respect

[Lizmo]

I have been re-reading "Top Trainers Talk About Starting A Sheepdog" and one handler was talking about that you need a dog's respect for training.

 

So this may be a silly question, but what does respect "look" like in a dog? Is it a dog that minds the handler every time it's given a command? Or is it the bond the handler and dog have?

 

I'm curious, those that have trained stockdogs, what do you consider respect? And those that train dogs in other things (like Obedience, Rally, Agility, Flyball) what do you consider respect?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I think of it as being a team. If the dog reacts in some way when I ask something, or give a correction, we're on the same page. It doesn't have to be exactly what I was looking for - as long as we are working together we can get the final result somehow. I think if the dog is trying to figure out what you want you are 80% threre.

 

But if the dog is off on his or her own agenda entirely you've got nothing. Well, I should say I do because I'm not a good enough trainer to make an unwilling dog mind. At some point I'll be standing there with a bunch of sheep while my dog amuses himself - or worse - my dog will be amusing himself with the sheep while I stand there issuing commands futilely.

[Root Beer]

And those that train dogs in other things (like Obedience, Rally, Agility, Flyball) what do you consider respect?

 

In a lot of ways, respect is going to be in the eye of the beholder.

 

For me, respect between my dogs and me is a mutual thing. First and foremost, I respect them as individuals and I put their needs ahead of my goals and aspirations for them. When challenges and problems arise, I look at the whole picture and make my decisions taking what is truly best for the individual dog into account.

 

On the dog's side, my dog's respect for me is manifested first and foremost as trust. Second to trust, I see respect manifested as a true sense of being a team and a partnership. The essence of this is something that I can't really describe in words. I know it when I experience it, though, and it's pretty amazing. It is definitely a component of a deep and profound connection between handler and dog.

 

I don't really measure respect by behavior per se. For instance, if my dog blows a contact in the excitement of a trial or because the surface of the contacts is weird, I don't consider that the least bit disrespectful. If my dog is distracted, overly excited, or not at his or her best on a given day, I don't regard that as lack of respect. After all, it is not lack of respect on my part when I accidently send my dog into an off course tunnel or can't run fast enough to be ahead to front cross when I planned to! For me respect is a matter of give and take that has everything to do with the attitude of both the dog and handler.

 

Unlike the trainer you referenced, I don't expect to have a full sense of respect in place before I begin training a dog. In fact, it is through the process of training that I have found the deepest respect to be forged on both sides of the relationship. As the dog and I come to know each other as individuals and work together to accomplish new small goals, respect is born and begins to flourish.

 

It's a pretty cool process.

[desertranger]

Are we becoming philosophers? I mean first what makes a BNC different now this.

 

I'm not sure how you would define respect in this case. Do I have respect for Jin. As a BC yes. I have a profound respect for what htese dogs can and won't do. Yes, won't do. I had one who was trained in all manner of sports, SAR, trail and drayage dog. But I couldn't get him to learn a single stupid pet trick. His attitude was, "You expect me to do what?" I respect that. Basil argued with me. If he didn't want to do something or worse disapproved of what I was doing he yelled at me. If I told him to do something and he argued he eventually would do what he was told. I respect that and I respect Glynnis's ability to open a latched lattice gate.

 

What about the other side? I think that a dogs respect is measured in the confidence and trust he has in you. The more there is the easier it is to teach him something. He knows you won't send him into danger or purposely hurt him. Right now I'm wondering about the respect, trust and confidence Jin might have for me after his ordeal. Did I do something to spoil his trust? Did I do something to scare him? Right now I don't know and that bothers me.

[Root Beer]

Did I do something to spoil his trust? Did I do something to scare him? Right now I don't know and that bothers me.

 

If you did, you can rebuild it. That is one of the most valuable lessons I've learned from Speedy. I shattered his trust in me completely at one point. He went, within one day, from a dog who had earned a first place on a Rally course to a dog who was a shut down, shivering mess. It was very severe and it took me a very long, long time to earn his trust back - all because of a very poor choice that I made that was completely inappropriate for him.

 

In the long run, our bond became stronger. I learned some important lessons from the experience that have made me completely committed to being a person who is truly deserving of his trust. He, in turn, did learn to trust me again - even more than he had before.

 

These dogs are pretty resilient. If you find that he doesn't trust you as much as he did before, give him time and treat him with compassion. You can come out on the other side and things can be even better.

[bc4ever]

What about the other side? I think that a dogs respect is measured in the confidence and trust he has in you. The more there is the easier it is to teach him something. He knows you won't send him into danger or purposely hurt him. Right now I'm wondering about the respect, trust and confidence Jin might have for me after his ordeal. Did I do something to spoil his trust? Did I do something to scare him? Right now I don't know and that bothers me.

I don't think your relationship will change. It will probably just get stronger because of this. When Scooter was around two, he had several bouts of intestinal problems. But every time we rushed him to the vet, so sick, he seemed to know that we were trying to help him and was very calm around the vet's and vet techs, even with all the poking and prodding. That's sort of like your comment on What Is A Border Collie? They know. And understand. A lot of things...

[hsnrs]

That is one of my favorite books. I'll have to find that part and see if there is some kind of explanation. We have Aussies so they tend to blow me off quite a bit. I think it isn't so much a loss of respect but that they know the stock much, much better than I ever will. What do you think? I see you have a Border Collie/Aussie mix so maybe you are seeing some of the things we are also. Narita

[Lizmo]

Are we becoming philosophers? I mean first what makes a BNC different now this.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. But my original question isn't me trying to become a philosopher and I'm sorry if you see it that way. My main purpose for asking this question was to gain more knowledge about dogs as training dogs has interested me for a long time.

 

What do you think? I see you have a Border Collie/Aussie mix so maybe you are seeing some of the things we are also. Narita

 

I don't work my Border Collie/Aussie She's just a pet dog. But she is a stubborn female with her own agenda. I take some responsiblity in her temperment as she probably didn't have the best ssocializing or handling as a pup, but part of it is just her personality I think. And I've poured and poured training into her. We've taken many classes together and spent alot of my free time working on her sits or downs or teaching tricks, etc. And I think that's why I've gained so much trust from her. I can look in her eyes and see complete and total trust from her.

 

So thats partly why I ask that question. As I'm not sure where respect fits into that. And the other part because I have another dog who I'd like to do stockwork with so the part in the book made me curious

[desertranger]

Lizmo I was being whimsical. I understood your question and Judi and I talked about it. It's the kind of question that shows wisdom. It is also a question that doesn't have a simple answer. It truly is a philosophers question and a very good one. Tell me what do you see as respect from your dog. How would you recognize it. After reading the posts after mine I found my answer. Jin wants to be in physical contact more than before. Right now he's sleeping on my feet. If I move my feet he moves back on to them. He trusts me not to kick or step on him. Mookie won't do that. She doesn't like having any kind of foot contact at all. By what we are discussing that's respect. I suppose you could say he respects me enough to do what I want him to. He spent 5 minutes giving me kisses and licks today. He wouldn't stop. Why?

[sandra s.]

I suppose if a dog is interested in what you have to say about a situation, then he respects you in that situation. If he ignores you, or maybe obeys you because you're bigger or to avoid trouble, then he's not respecting you in that situation.

The latter happened to me on sheep - I let Kessie down so badly that she didn't want to work with me at all. There was probably a point at which she was still expecting help or input from me, but the fact that I didn't pay her enough attention to even know if there WAS such a point probably says it all.

Other than that, there have only been little moments thankfully, usually something to do with me not communicating or listening as well as I should. Or taking something out on them unfairly.

 

In my experience the dogs are usually right. If they treat me like an arse, then I'm probably behaving like one (<- that's something that's MUCH easier to see in hindsight most of the time ). If I don't fully believe in what I'm doing (like half-heartedly trying to teach them tricks, which I'm somehow, stupidly, biased against) they don't believe in it either. It's as if they had a detailed map of my conscience at every point in time, scary little mind-reading critters that they are .

[DTrain]

I have two dogs that I have had since they were born and another I got when he was two. Each dog is different. I allow my dogs to be puppy's and I interact with them as much as possible as they are growing up I guess respect just builds in that situation. They are high energy and eager to please. But since I started with the two year old who was trained on stock by someone else he had little respect for me for a long time, in fact I am pretty certain he did not even like me. But I decided to do two things with him. I worked with him on stock but I also practiced with him a lot. It was not needed, he is an exceptional dog but through the practice sessions I learned what he could do and that was my intention. I gave him lots of room and I payed close attention and I developed a very high regard for him and his work. I gave him time to understand me and slowly we began to work together as a team. When not working I played with him, something he had never been exposed to. I felt I needed to do something with him that was different and unique to me. He was very eager to please and quite frankly he knew his stock and his job so well that I let him for the most part just go ahead and do it. I was certain he was beginning to like me so through the practice sessions I began to inject what I wanted from him. We reached a point I believe where we understood each other. I should say that before I got him there was nothing in his life except work. How do I define respect. At the end of one of our practice sessions when I called him off he came to me and I petted him and praised him. Normally he would just stand aside and wait to go to work again, he was not social until that day. I had already gained a huge respect for him but something happened that day that changed our relationship. Now he is with me constantly, he never leaves my side, he is high spirited and ready at a moments notice to work or play. I think respect and trust are just about the same thing.

[Liz P]

Respect is something you earn over time through a relationship. Looking back on every relationship I have ever had with a dog, I would not say there was mutual respect when they were young pups. Often I realized we had reached that goal when the dogs were already several years old, and our respect continued to grow with time. For me a key part of respect is trust. It means that the dog trusts me to not put it in danger, to look out for their best interest and ultimately have the final say in any situation. It also means that I don't ask more than the dog is capable of, that if the dog does not obey a command I think for a moment about why that may be (is the dog right?), that I value input from the dog and sometimes I have to blindly trust their decision because I realize they have superior senses and instincts that I was not born with.

 

I have seen far too many dog trainers mistake fear for respect, or even desire fear rather than respect. The very best dog trainers, the ones who seem to work miracles, are the ones who know how to quickly earn the respect of the dogs and keep it.

 

When you are talking about respect with stock work I think it is really hard for a novice handler to earn the respect of their dog. Novice handlers make lots of mistakes. The dogs are blessed with natural instincts and pick up on those mistakes, which makes it hard for them to completely trust their handlers. Thankfully, Border Collies are very forgiving and if you stick with it and figure out what you are doing you can earn the respect of your dog.

[Lenajo]

I think of respect as the expression in a dog eyes and body when it approaches you when called. A dog that respect you will have a soft eye - deferential but not afraid, his body slightly off center (unless specifically trained otherwise) in his approach, and his tail will be loose and relaxed, usually half mast or low.

 

It is correct that some trainers consider fear behavior to be respect, and vis versa I think some trainers, often in response to the fear based ones, try too keep a dog all giddy and up all the time to "prove" he is not afraid. Neither is good.

 

I've had to backtrack on a few of my dogs, especially a certain redhead you know, because lack of respect was undermining our progress as a team. I had become just one more game to play, ifar from the goal of the ideal 49:51 ratio of dog:handler control that you would want. There is always give and take with a good team, just as long as that tiny final percentage of handler override remains as "boss".

 

Think about how you would a good human boss at a job, or a teacher in school. You can kid with them, be friendly and happy, and you know they will stand up with and for you to succeed. There is just this line you can't cross - those words you would never say, that tone you would never use, and the actions you would never consider because they are your boss/teacher. That's respect. You know they would enforce that that boundary, and your respect that. You also trust them to be clear about the line and that you are safe and supported under their requests. That's respect.

 

And vis versa they know you as a good kid/employee who respects their rules and can be trusted and given maximum priviledge. That's respect.

[Jedismom]

Respect is something you earn over time through a relationship. For me a key part of respect is trust.

 

These are excellent points from Liz. I think you build trust first in a relationship, then you earn their respect by consistent leadership. All my dogs started doing things I expected at first, because they got good things in return like treats, praise, or butt scratches. Cadi absolutely lives for a good butt scratch. But eventually they just did things or followed certain rules just because they knew I wanted it that way. That's when I knew I had their respect. It's hard to explain until you experience it. It's like turning the corner in a relationship and all of a sudden you don't have to work as hard to communicate.

 

Georgia

[Kyrasmom]

I'm going to chime in and add that I also think respect from a dog comes in the form of trust. The kind of trust that makes them put thier lives in your hand without a wimper. All of my dogs are obedient but I don't necessarily think that sitting on command is respect...it's a learned behavior and especialy with working dogs, they aim to please. It's how they're wired. Respect, for me at least, is being in uncomfortable situations, or difficult situations, and trusting their person enough to not get upset. Or being hurt and allowing the owner to fix or treat even though it hurts. That they trust me and know that I would never do them harm.

 

At the end of the day, for my dogs, I would rather they let me give them shots and treat any injuries then sit on command....that I can always teach them. Respect I can't teach...it's something that I have to earn as much as they do.

 

Maria

[Lizmo]

ifar from the goal of the ideal 49:51 ratio of dog:handler control that you would want. There is always give and take with a good team, just as long as that tiny final percentage of handler override remains as "boss".

 

I've never heard of this before. Thats a neat way to explain it.

 

I'm going to chime in and add that I also think respect from a dog comes in the form of trust. The kind of trust that makes them put thier lives in your hand without a wimper.

 

Thats one thing that crossed my mind. That -in terms of dogs- respect might be the same thing as trust. Since this is the way Lizzie is with me. I can really do anything to her -alot of things other people, including other family members, can't. Maybe it's just how some dogs express their respect?

[Amelia]

"So this may be a silly question, but what does respect "look" like in a dog?"

 

Hello all, this is a great question. Gaining a dog's respect is one of my first and main points when I'm teaching someone or training a dog. My dogs understand that I make the rules. I decide who does what and when and I start that dynamic from my first contact with them at whatever age that occurs. I don't believe that dogs think along the lines of whether I respect them or not. I don't believe they process information that way. They look for a leader and I fill that need.

 

Here's some easy ways to engender respect from you dog.

 

Never let him put his feet on you. That is a huge sign of disrespect. From the time my dogs are puppies, whenever they put their feet on me, I shove them aside with a growling correction. This should not be in any way painful, scary or intimidating. The only thing it needs to be is consistent.

 

Keep them below you because height equals dominance in a dog's world. When I want to play or show affection, I go to their level to play, then return to mine. My dogs aren't allowed on the furniture. If they come in the house, they stay on the floor.

 

Teach your dog to walk properly on a leash and correct them whenever they pull. Straining or pulling on the end of the leash is another sign of disrespect. When they pull, tug back with intensity that matches theirs. Again, no fear or pain, just consistency and before long you'll have a dog that walks with you, not one that pulls you.

 

Without a correction, a dog doesn't know it's doing anything wrong. That's why treats don't work without a correction. First show the dog what it's doing wrong with a correction, then reward it when it does it right.

 

Control their food because whoever does that makes the rules. If I have a dog that is learning respect for me, I'll feed him last and make him lie down before setting down his food. Then, I increase the amount of time he has to wait until I tell him he can eat.

 

Dogs require a leader and it will either be you or it will be them. If people would adhere to these simple rules with their dogs, many fewer dogs would end up in rescue and killed in shelters. All of my dogs are confident, content, well mannered, quiet and completely obedient beause they know absolutely who makes the rules. For them, there is comfort in that.

[Dixie_Girl]

Amelia, I would have to agree whole-heartedly with this assesment. (While I'm not as strict as far as the dogs getting on bed or couch.)DH babies Skip so much it drives me nuts. I have told him over and over that he is creating a problem. He didn't see it until yesterday. And it was bad. We had just come home and as usual the dogs were all at the fence to greet us. DH got out first and was talking to all the dogs. Without warning(well, warning DH could see) Skip attacked Jackson. Why? Skip didn't want Jackson greeting DH! DH "belongs" to him. That is HIS property. Don't horn in on it. I fly out of the truck yelling for them to stop, Jackson did immediately, but Skip wasn't done. I grabbed Skip by the collar and literally drug him into our room and shut the door. Left him in there about 30min. That's about how long my lecturing and ranting and raveing lasted. When I let him out, I told DH under no circumstance was he to do anything except ignore Skip. Then, 5min. after that, Jackson starts to come in and stops dead in his tracks and I look down in time to see Skip give him "the look". I took Skip and locked him up in Hollys "pen"(a very very short hall way gated off. maybe 5x4)He stayed there for probly 3hrs. No one talked to him or looked at him. After he was let out this time, he was fine the rest of the night, and so far today. It is all DH fault. When DH is on the couch, I have seen him let Skip literally stand on him(DH is laying on the couch) I will tell Skip to get down, but that's not the same as DH telling him. So, DH as agreed to listen to me and change how he deals with Skip. The dogs all depend on me to keep things right in the household. Even Skip. There is no preasure on the dogs because I will decide who does what when. They respect me. DH is just a play thing.

[desertranger]

Never let him put his feet on you. That is a huge sign of disrespect. From the time my dogs are puppies, whenever they put their feet on me, I shove them aside with a growling correction. This should not be in any way painful, scary or intimidating. The only thing it needs to be is consistent.

 

Keep them below you because height equals dominance in a dog's world. When I want to play or show affection, I go to their level to play, then return to mine. My dogs aren't allowed on the furniture. If they come in the house, they stay on the floor.

 

Party pooper.

 

Seriously we like to -lay feet games. Mine on theres and vice versa. Height is the same thing. We are always on the floor with these guys as the sit there or in out laps. Furnitures is the other one althjough BCs have never like the furniture. Mookie is a couch dog and wee don't mind. Jin will come up to visit then leave with the exception of the bed where he is allowed to sleep if he wishes. If he's sick he spends the entire night on the bed, if not he sleeps at the foot of the bed.

 

I'm pretty sure I have Mookie's (7yrs) respect since I have been able to teach her a few tricks that require good confidence in the dog since I got Jin.

[Ooky]

I really liked Amelia's post too, even though I'm not entirely sure I agree those rules are absolutes. Take for example the height thing. While it does mean dominance I have seen a smaller animal be dominant to a larger animal many times. For example, Benway is very clearly dominant to Odin in our household, and is much smaller. But at the same time, Odin *does* try to maneuver his face to be below Benway's when they are interacting. He is now so much taller this is actually pretty amusing to see, and it means he pretty much always looks at Benway upside down.

 

I read about getting on the floor with your pup (and knew it from my dad saying it was a terrible idea). I really wanted to be on the floor with Odin a lot while he was small because he was SO cute and fun to play with. I rarely did, and when I did do while he was a puppy, it often got him too excited, unfocused, and hyper. But now that I think he is at least gaining respect for me, we can lay down together on the couch or on the bed (him invited by me), and shadow box calmly and quietly, and examine each others paw/hands, and I *really* don't feel anything resembling disrespect in those moments.

 

The list of things Amelia had are all good solid rules from a coherent training philosophy - all rules my dad would go by with a dog absolutely (although I'm pretty sure Amelia has my dad beat in ultimate skill as a dog trainer ) . From my upbringing, I really agree with this touching on the a core concept of dog-handler respect:

 

My dogs understand that I make the rules.

 

In this, I understand that up to a certain point, as long as I'm still making the rules some things can be ok. For example, to me playing tug is not allowing the dog to be disrespectful unless the dog's not playing by your rules, dropping the second you say let go, and "taking" on equal command. And leaving you alone when you say enough, too. It's not the tug itself. I would imagine feet on you etc. could follow those same lines - if you know what you're doing and the dog is still playing by your rules, the act itself is not inherently disrespectful. Does that apply to all the things on Amelia's list? I don't know - I'd be interested to hear others' opinions if any of these truly are unbreakable rules, that would mutually exclude respect-building. Obviously, I personally felt it just wasn't wise when Odin was a pup to get down on the ground with him.

 

This, however, I don't agree with:

Without a correction, a dog doesn't know it's doing anything wrong. That's why treats don't work without a correction.

 

I just think that statement is just completely contrary to my training methods so far. I think Odin enjoys feeling like he's choosing to learn things and do stuff I tell him to, and I get really consistent results for all the commands he knows. He *definitely* knows what's the "wrong" action for things we taught completely with rewards and praise. BUT I don't train on stock, which I understand is more fluid/unforgiving/interactive than anything I've ever done with Odin, I guess? So maybe that makes a huge difference too. BTW I do give Odin corrections, just not often and I just don't think they are needed in conjunction with or prior to rewards to train any specific behavior.

 

I don't know that we can be quite there yet at his age an my level of inexperience, but one of my primary goals with Odin is to develop the type of relationship where I'll look at him and feel he totally respects/trusts me, as a leader and partner, and I also can respect and trust him too.

[afrancis]

Party pooper.

 

I see things are getting back to normal at the Ranger household.

 

I certainly agree with much of what Amelia says as well in terms of hierarchy and respect. But in our household furniture and bed privileges are regularly awarded

Ailsa

[bcnewe2]

I tend to agree with everything that Amelia says except the feet on you part and the furniture part. My dogs are working dogs. I have old seniors that I learned to train on that are here for the duration. The couch is there fav. spot. but will egerly give it up if a human wants to sit on it.

I don't have issues with a dog putting it's feet on me as long as I ask or they ask first. Some of my dogs don't put feet on me and some do. Dew is one that is forever wanting to give hugs. For lack of a better description I call it a hug. She wants to put her leggs around your neck and squeeze. With her hug you get a goan of delight and sometimes a bit of a smile. She is also my bed warmer if DH is not around. I really enjoy her laying down at my feet. Call it comforting.

If I don't want a hug, just a look will tell her to stay off. Or she will come up and look at me to see if I'm in the mood. The only issues I've ran into is soft visitors that don't want a hug but don't know how to not solicit one. So if someone is coming up and I don't want her to offer a hug or even think about jumping up, all I say is No, stay off. She then gives that stranger about 20 feet of space waiting to see if things might change. I guess I've trained the respect in with her having to ask or me asking her. But I enjoy her lovies and I wouldn't give them up in the name of respect.

Now Mick's a bit older and less respectful when working. He's the one that I have to say lie down one extra time or raise my voice if I think he's going to blow me off. BUT he NEVER jumps up on anyone. NEVER. It's not what I trained, but what he does. Now that he's getting a bit older and has spondylosis that's getting worse, I find him crawling up onto my leather couch (leather for dog hair) to lie in comfort. Doesn't bother me in the least. We stay at my Mom's where dogs are not allowed on the furniture. He tired to crawl into a chair at her house once. I said NO STAY OFF and he's never tried again and we stay there at least monthly.

 

Respect is something I feel we set right in the beginning. No pulling on leash, no biting my feet or other body parts, eating when I say, or any number of ways I set myself as leader. I use treats for shaping a behavoir but not to bribe the dog into obeidence.

I really think feet on you is a personal prefrence. But....what do I know, I'm not competing on Amelia's level though I'd like to in the future. We'll see if I change my mind which in learning the art of training stockdogs can change each time I take them out!

 

JMHO

[desertranger]

A dilemma. Everyone has good points and there are things we shouldn't allow our dogs to do. Using furniture for an example. A dog allowed on the furniture has to yield it when told to or in the car, ride in back despite the fact the dog wants to ride shotgun. There are some behaviors that shouldn't be encourage, jumping on others that we allow on ourselves. And more not to be encouraged but make us closer to the dogs when we do them. Sort of a Catch-22. It's kind of like raising children, it's a do it yourself thing with no real instruction to help you out until after the fact. I would say in a lifetime of having dogs and training them I still don't have it down. Right now I'm focused very intently on Jin and I'm always wondering if I'm doing it right especially when I don't get the results I want.

 

That brings up another thought that could have an effect on a dogs respect, frustration. These days my frustration level is reached rather easily and I wonder how it effects Jin when I get frustrated over his not doing something he knows how to do and doesn't. Recall being the hard one at the moment and not always 100%.

[Root Beer]

I'm probably about the most polar opposite of Amelia that one can be on this matter.

 

I do agree about the food thing. In my house, the humans control the food. I actually started Dean's training by teaching him to train for his meals and it did wonders for him. I love using meals to train a new dog because it teaches the dog that I control the resources without putting the dog and I in conflict with each other. He does what I ask (which at first is VERY low criteria behavior) and he gets what he wants. If he doesn't do what I ask, he doesn't get what he wants. He caught on quickly and that practice, which I carried out for about a month, really prepared him well for his training.

 

I also teach a dog to walk on leash without pulling, but my choice is to do so without corrections. I don't view pulling on a leash as lack of respect, but as lack of training.

 

Paws up is just a behavior. It is actually one that I want my dogs to be able to offer me on cue. Also, I would consider life much poorer if my dogs did not greet me with hugs when I get home from work every day. My house, my rules - paws up hugs are appreciated and encouraged by my husband and I. Of course they are taught - through reinforcement - to stay "off" if cued to do so. That is for the rare times when I am wearing something I don't want to get snagged, or for guests who don't like dog hugs. Believe it or not, the dogs can actually understand to stay off when cued to do so, even though they are normally allowed to paws-up hug.

 

As far as corrections being necessary and training with treats not working - that's absolutely not the case in my home. My dogs are never corrected when I train anything - ever. Yet they are well-trained (in the things that I have trained), respectful, confident, content, well mannered dogs. Training with treats is not everyone's preference, but to say that "treats don't work without a correction" is simply not true. It is working for me, and for plenty of other people that I know.

 

Personally, if the only way to earn a dog's respect were to adhere to a set of rigid rules about paws and furniture and corrections, I probably wouldn't even own dogs! I am grateful that those rules aren't absolutes and that a dog's respect can absolutely be earned through other ways.

[juliepoudrier]

Personally, if the only way to earn a dog's respect were to adhere to a set of rigid rules about paws and furniture and corrections, I probably wouldn't even own dogs! I am grateful that those rules aren't absolutes and that a dog's respect can absolutely be earned through other ways.

Write this date down--I agree with you.

 

J.