Little Bo Boop Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 So I went and got the three Karakul ewes on Sat. while we were there, she had a little bottle lamb, the ewe wouldn't feed him...anyway, OMG he was cute, followed my husband and me all over the place. Well long story short, I offered to buy the little guy (otherwise he was going to end up on a plate) For what I want, I don't care if I have wethers or not...plus he'll still have that pretty karakul fleece ;-) So I guess I'll go back and pick him up this week, I'll have to continue feeding him, I think he's a couple of weeks old, did I mention he was cute ;-) So what all can I expect, and how long will I need to feed him etc...I know, I must be nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 How whacked am I? For withholding Stella pictures this long, I'd say very. Sorry, no advice on the lamb, but good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Betty, If I were you I'd leave him with the flock and teach him to come feed out of a bottle hanging off the fence (they have ones made for that purposes). He may already be too bonded to humans, but if you want him to act as much as a sheep as possible for dog working purposes, then he needs to be with the sheep and have minimal contact with you. He'll always be friendlier than ones not raised by hand, but at least he doesn't have to be obnoxious. I raised one last year but left him with his mama (she was an old girl and just didn't have milk for him). He would come running if you walked out in the field and yelled "Little Boy," but I think he was a much happier, healthier sheep by staying with the flock. If he's already a couple of weeks old, you can feed him ~8 oz 4 times a day. By the time he's a month old you can go to three feedings a day of 2 cups per feeding. You could even hang a bucket (where the other sheep can't get to it easily, or make sure it has a lid so other sheep can't reach in and drink)) with a nipple and let him have at it whenever he wants, although depending on your temps, the milk might spoil (you can buy these ready made or make one yourself). If you do that, it's fine to use cold milk because it (the coldness) will discourage him from gorging on it. This will allow him to eat many small meals a day, which is what he'd do if he was still nursing from his mama. You could put a couple of milk jugs filled with water and frozen in the bucket to keep the milk cool. The other advantage to this feeding system is that if you have to work, you don't have to worry about a arranging your work schedule around a feeding schedule. But he may have to be taught to nurse from such a feeder. If he's already trained to a bottle, it shouldn't be too hard to train him to a bucket with a nipple. (Don't forget that overfeeding can cause scours, which can kill a lamb. You might want to keep some anti-scours meds or electrolytes on hand in case this happens, though I've never had a problem with scours in bottle lambs.) He's probably already willing to nibble creep feed (something that's ground or otherwise not big and hard to chew) and hay that's not too stemmy. I'd start offering it to him now--just put it in the same area where he nurses (make sure it's protected from the other sheep and the elements). I have read articles on early weaning, and I think it just depends on what you want to do and what milk replacer costs you and how well he's growing. You could wean as early as a month if he's eating feed well. I'd wait till he was at least 6 weeks old, and preferably 8. This will be easier to do if you are feeding him out of a bucket so it's more convenient for you. With the high cost of milk replacer, many people prefer to wean earlier rather than later, but I'd go as long as I can. I had neighbors who raised a bottle lamb as a pet; she lived in the house, etc. I kept warning her that she was going to be sorry. When she tried to put that lamb back out with the flock, the poor thing had a really hard time adjusting because it didn't know how to be a sheep. I enjoy bottle lambs just as much keeping them out with the flock and just calling them up to feed. But do whatever works for you! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 bottle babies are soooo cute, till you have to get up in the middle of the night to feed or they get big enough to start knocking you around wanting their bottle. I started my whole sheep adventure with 2 Rambouillet wether bottle lambs. My son at the time was only 7 or so. He named them Chip & Dale. It wasn't long till we started telling him they had new names....Lunch & Dinner. He didn't get the joke but we did butcher them (or had them butchered) I never told anyone that came over for lamb dinner, that they'd be eating alone. I could never get the meat in my mouth. I did try. Lesson I learned....dont name the sheep that you plan on eating! Lesson 2....I'm not to fond of bottle lambs unless they live somewhere else. The few that I've had born here I've sold before they were a week old to people that wanted pets. Way easier than the other options. We did keep one for about 2 months, we called her Ramora after the little sucker fish that attach themsleves to whales or sharks. She attached herself to Mick and would do out runs with him. Mick was a bit embarrased but as long as the little thing didn't try to nurse him, he let her hang with him. It was way to cute! Good luck with you new prize! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'm totally with Julie on this one. Let him hang out with the other sheep so he learns to be a sheep, and just supplement with the fence bucket with nipple, as Julie suggests. If he has access to his milk replacer at will, rather than slugging a hole bottle at a time several times a day, not only does that free up your life, but it's a more natural way for him to get his nourishment, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Thanks for all the info guys :-) really appreciate it. Although I'm sure its tempting to just make a pet out of them, I agree that I'll want him to be a part of the flock and not a house pet, so I think I'll def. go with Julies advice on this one. The other lambs she had out there, that were a tad older, were already trying to eat hay, and she did have a creep feeder as well. He's pretty people broke, but he also didn't seem to mind hanging with the other lambs and ewes, so maybe he won't be too hard to convert. Should be an adventure ;-) bcnewe2, that must have been a sight, your lamb and your dog on an outrun together ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Our old cow, Babe, was a bottle baby who grew up away from the other cows and with a lot of playtime with our Aussie, Mac (the best surrogate mother an orphan could have). When we did finally put her in with the cows, she didn't want anything to do with those stinky, nasty things. She also would never be worked well by a dog (and Mac would never work her - she was not a "real" cow to him, just a buddy that was a bit big). Let the babies grow up as naturally as possible, for the benefit of all concerned. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I've not had good luck with lambs that were not accepted by the ewes, it seems that I dump all kinds of time, money and milk replacer in them just to have them not do well and eventually die anyway, that milk replacer is not cheap stuff. I don't know how much you are paying for him, but if it was me I would take the money that I was going to pay for him plus my anticipated milk replacer, feed cost and just purchase another ewe making up the difference. It's kinda strange, but I've not had problems when with orphans where the ewe was lost, just the ones that the ewe would not accept. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I've done the bucket with nipples thing before when raising a set of triplets without their mom. It worked extremely well. I'd advise setting it up in a creep feeder - that way not only will the ewes stay out of it, but also he will nibble at the grain and hay earlier. If he gets on that grain, you can wean him around five or six weeks, with caution. You can do tough love at four weeks if the lamb is clearly established ruminating and growing well. Check with the different brands. There's a couple that will stay stable at around room temp all day with no problem. If it's really warm (say above 75 degrees and warming up quickly in the morning), then the cold pack in the bucket works nicely. This year I made a discovery for bottle lambs. I had a weak triplet I was supplementing and it was so successful I was able to stop after a few days - he'd gotten strong enough to fight his siblings and in fact is now bumping off his brother easily. I was using a daily dose of human quality probiotics. I've used Probios before and really didn't see the results it promised. But I had this stuff for our use and for the dogs - just 1/8 teaspoon daily for a lamb so ironically it's more cost effective than typical livestock probiotic products too. Probiotics do two main things: one, the good "bugs" help crowd out bad "bugs" - like e-coli and salmonella, for instance. Second, a healthy probiotic population is required to uptake minerals properly, including those needed for immune health, growth, and digestive function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Whoa! you guys weren't kidding about the $$$$ for the milk replacer, yikes!! They're proud of that stuff! $54 for a 20lb sack, yowzer, little Shaun better appreciate it that's all I've got to say ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Now you know why everyone suggested getting him on a diet of solid food as soon as practical! I don't know how people who buy and raise bottle calves ever manage to make anything off of them on resale, but at least one friend I know who does that swears he does! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 no joke! That's crazy, I wonder why it's so high $$$ Thank goodness she says he's already eating a little hay, and seems to like it. I take it alfalfa is a no no at this stage/age? just plain grass hay is best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I think Storey's Guide actually suggests alfalfa as the leaves are easy to chew, but I've never had a lamb so early (at least not a bottle lamb) that I had to worry about hay (usually there's grass available). I generally just offer creep feed. If the lamb is out with the flock it will learn to graze along with them. That's not much help, but maybe someone with more experience with bottle lambs when there isn't any grass available will chime in. ETA: According to Ron Parker in The Sheep Book you can wean as early as three weeks, but certainly by six weeks. Specifically he says: Get those lambs onto solid food soon, because every day they are on a milk replacer means you are losing money. Make every effort to give them the food they like and get them chewing and ruminating. If you don't have a copy, The Sheep Book is available in PDF format online for download (for free). Google it and I'm sure you'll find it. Storey's Guide says the following: After the lamb is three months old, feed whole grain and alfalfa or pelleted alfalfa containing 25 percent grain, but change rations very gradually. For creep I like a custom mix that has whole grains and a little bit of molasses in it to encourage them to eat. And I offer them grain well before they are three months old. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Well thats what I would have thought, that the alfalfa would be more palatable, higher moisture content, and offer more nutritition; our coastal hay that we feed here, especially now with the drought, is pretty much devoid of any nutritional value. I thought I read though that the alfalfa could cause them to scour...I have pretty much zero grass or anything green right now ;-( its pretty pitiful. Maybe I'll just put in a little alfalfa with the coastal, see how he does on it, and if looks like he gets loose, I'll just go back to the grass hay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Just saw your ETA, thanks I'll look for the sheep book, I'm sure it's good to have on hand. I thought I read in a couple of places where it said you could wean at 4 weeks...I know the one ewe lamb that I have out here basically weaned herself at a little ove a month. She was a really big lamb, very independent, always wondering off, leaving the ewe, seems like mom was always having to wander around looking for the kid ;-(...after about a month she was eating grain and a little sweetfeed with the others and of course grazing...I saw her nurse every now and again, but not very often. She's not even a year old yet and is as big as her mother (who's pretty good sized) so I guess it can work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Oh one little bottle lamb that isn't whacked try buying 20 to 40 of the little buggers in a couple months and raising them. That's wacked, but it was fun for awhile. Not sure i'd do it again. These are the biggies for bottle babies. While he is drinking milk don't feed him alfalfa. It is fine if you are supplementing a lamb that has a mom but alfalfa, bottle milk and an older bottle lamb spell trouble because he is very likely to bloat and die - not pretty. Also lots of C/D vaccinations to help prevent bloat - one vaccine every2 to 3 weeks at least until he is weaned, you can go every 2 weeks. Cold milk available for him to self feed is great but it has to be COLD or he will overeat and bloat. Bottle lambs come with a steep learning curve if you aren't careful and since you only have one we can't afford for you to 'learn' on this one. If his mom was vaccinated and he is healthy then you are off to a good start. Also watch for any coughing which is the first signs of pneumonia, not eating ect. I only fed my lambs three times a day for the first day or two then it was twice a day. I would put the milk in a plastic pop bottle and use a screw on pritchard nipple and they would drink as much of it as they wanted each feeding but never got more than a 18 oz bottle. they did have creep feed available and at 4 weeks I would begin decreasing the milk I allowed them. They would eat more creep then at 5 weeks they were fed 1/2 bottle one a day for a few days then just creep and hay. That 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 week old period is when to make sure you are decreasing the milk depending on how big he is and how much feed he is eating because this is when they usually bloat. Have fun with him, Denice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 If you can get goat's milk nearby that would be cheaper. We used to put our bummers on the goats and they did fine. You might get a goat temporarily for him and sell at the auction (maybe borrow one from a neighbor). Our lambs didn't do well at first on alfalfa either. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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