Local Border Collie Breeders

[jenkshipley]

Jen,

 

It sounds like you have your hands full. So sorry to hear about all of the problems.

 

What does your contract say as far as what the breeder offers in the way of a guarantee?

 

 

My contract is vague about the breeder's discretion to refund. Becky at one point when Fever was in the midst of her initial really bad period of behavior issues, when she had bitten a few people, told me to send her back if I was so unhappy with her. Fever was two and I had no idea at that point of the extent of behavior problems in the lines, but was actually attempting to inform the breeder of an issue I "thought" she might want to know about.

 

I don't rehome my dogs. I don't send them off because they have problems they can't help and I certainly am not someone who would send a dog I had raised for two years back to it's breeder. I stopped all contact with RS until the health issues arose. You can attempt to blame behavioral issues in a dog on its owner but it is hard to argue against 20 pages of veterinary records. I also included the veterinarians contact information and a link to the behavorists info.

 

If I stop one person from buying a puppy there, I'll be happy at this point.

[jenkshipley]

[

Bute can be hard to supplement but I could put those additives in his raw meat and he will eat it. While the others eat supplements outright, I have to "hide" his. I appreciate your suggestions.

 

Most of the vitamins I use are powdered and I mix them in with the food. The dogs don't know they are there.

 

 

[jdarling]

My contract is vague about the breeder's discretion to refund.

 

Can you share the applicable parts of it with us?

[jenkshipley]

Can you share the applicable parts of it with us?

 

Yes, let me see if I can find my contract. It is at home somewhere with Fever's papers and I haven't looked at it since before I moved. I know it is somewhere. I'll scan it and post it.

 

I will say that I strongly feel after this has happened that anyone who breeds dogs should be willing to refund for health or behavorial issues. I CERTAINLY would not consider another dog as "replacement" from this breeder. Dogs are not cars or appliances. Most people don't want to return them at 2 because they don't function properly. I have friends who are breeders of BCs and of other breeds. I have asked them about the situation. Every one of them would have refunded me for Fever without a question and been happy that she had a permanent, loving, dedicated home despite any issues. I won't buy from someone who offers less again. I don't care how nice the parents of the pups are. If people aren't going to stand behind what they breed they should not be breeding.

 

Jen

[Journey]

anyone who breeds dogs should be willing to refund for health or behavorial issues.

 

I might agree with part of this, however, there is no way someone could stand behind behavioral issues. The breeder has no control over this and there's no telling "who" did "what". I feel bad for you and understand and have no doubt about Fever's behavioral issues but somethings are to vague for even the best breeder to be able to cover. Temperament may be a different story but even then "something" out of the breeders control may have happened.

[Kenbo]

It sounds like you have your hands full, however asking a breeder to take back a dog that is 3 years old is a little odd or even after a year. I agree with Journey that there are a lot of factors that will play into the temperment of your dog. Sometines, IMO it is the person on the other side of the lead and that is not the breeders problem. It sounds like there are a lot of litters planed, maybe too many, but it also sounds like you have an ax to grind and just want your money back. On the other hand, how many good dogs were turned out?. If all of your friends are breeders, why did you not buy from them? Ken

[Journey]

It sounds like you have your hands full, however asking a breeder to take back a dog that is 3 years old is a little odd or even after a year. I agree with Journey that there are a lot of factors that will play into the temperment of your dog. Sometines, IMO it is the person on the other side of the lead and that is not the breeders problem. It sounds like there are a lot of litters planed, maybe too many, but it also sounds like you have an ax to grind and just want your money back. On the other hand, how many good dogs were turned out?. If all of your friends are breeders, why did you not buy from them? Ken

 

 

Oh no, I am not saying RS BC is responsible or that they should not take the dog back after 3 years, they should based on "all" the problems Jen has had. Furthermore, I know too many breeders that would/will take a dog back regardless. What I commented on was her blanket statement about "behavioral issues". This dog has plenty of health issues and the breeder is aware of them and has been from the beginning. And if you read all of Jens posts you will see that other dogs in the same litter have issues as well. As far as having an ax to grind......BYB and Millers should be taken to task.

 

however asking a breeder to take back a dog that is 3 years old is a little odd or even after a year

 

Many reputable breeders would not squawk at taking the dog back but BYB and PMiller's will and do.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I think RS offered to take the dog back and give a refund but it was turned down.

[jdarling]

Jen, were you able to find the contract? I think that might clarify things a bit.

[jenkshipley]

I might agree with part of this, however, there is no way someone could stand behind behavioral issues. The breeder has no control over this and there's no telling "who" did "what". I feel bad for you and understand and have no doubt about Fever's behavioral issues but somethings are to vague for even the best breeder to be able to cover. Temperament may be a different story but even then "something" out of the breeders control may have happened.

 

 

I would agree with this as well and am actually considering a five month old bitch from who was a return to a breeder for behavior. I am looking for a dog for agility and a friend of the breeder suggested I try this dog. I find her behavior to be mismanagement rather then temperament.

 

However, in Fever's case there have been multiple incidents of severe behavior issues for years in the line. Why would you continue breeding that line after it proved to produce temperament issues in the first place?

[jenkshipley]

I think RS offered to take the dog back and give a refund but it was turned down.

 

 

Yes, she did offer to have me send Fever back but never offered to refund me. If she wants to magically produce the email that offered a refund to dispute that, I'd like to see it. We never talked on the phone since before Fever arrived to me. Fever was 22 months old at the time. The really severe behavior/temperament issues did not surface until social maturity at about 20 months. For anyone familiar with behavorial issues caused by temperament problems that are genetically common in dogs, this would not be surprising. If anyone would like to contact that person who is a behavorist who has met and worked with Fever that I included in my email to the breeder to get her opinion on whether this is a temperament issue or not, feel free.

 

I was never and will never be interested in returning Fever to the breeder. Sorry, not an option after I have raised and bonded to my adult dog. Unfortunately, IBD and epilepsy often don't show up until a dog is mature, IBD in young dogs happens often between 2 and 4, epilepsy often between 2 and 5.

 

Yes, I was absolutely interested in being refunded. Of course I am. I have a three year old Border Collie that with purchase price and veterinary care, etc. has cost me $5000 that I cannot work on stock or compete with in agility.

 

I was pretty convinced that it wasn't going to happen because I don't feel that this is a responsible breeder. I sent her as much detailed information about my issues as possible and gave her the benefit of the doubt. I was proven correct.

 

Yes, I have an ax to grind. Um, why wouldn't I? My young, energetic Border Collie has temperament and health issues that I wish greatly that she did not have to deal with. I hope letting people know what happened to her and to me keeps others from facing the same fate.

 

Let me ask a question. What exactly would the breeder have done with this dog do you think? What would those of you who have an issue with me believing I have a right to a refund have done if you got this particular dog back? What purpose does taking a two year old dog with temperament issues, Fair hips and health problems serve? Isn't the dog better off in the home where it is happy, cared for and has been raised?

[jenkshipley]

Jen, were you able to find the contract? I think that might clarify things a bit.

 

 

No chance to look, but I will try to find it tonight. If RS is monitoring these posts, I am sure they have a signed copy from me if I am unable to find my copy. They are also welcome to post it.

 

And to answer the question about why I didn't buy from people I know personally. Timing. I was very upset due to an career ending injury to my then 6 1/2 year old Border Collie. I made an atypical, quick and rash decision after only a brief amount of research and bought an available puppy. As I said in a much earlier post - very large life lesson learned by that poor decision on my part.

 

Jen

[Smokjbc]

No chance to look, but I will try to find it tonight. If RS is monitoring these posts, I am sure they have a signed copy from me if I am unable to find my copy. They are also welcome to post it.

 

And to answer the question about why I didn't buy from people I know personally. Timing. I was very upset due to an career ending injury to my then 6 1/2 year old Border Collie. I made an atypical, quick and rash decision after only a brief amount of research and bought an available puppy. As I said in a much earlier post - very large life lesson learned by that poor decision on my part.

 

Jen

 

Hello,

 

Although I have already expressed concern regarding this particular breeder (mostly volume and lack of continued working generations), I do not think it is reasonable, unless expressly stated in a contract, to expect a refund on a three year old dog. I also believe it is the breeders perogative to ask for the dog in return. If you purchased a companion, that dog is fulfilling that role, however flawed it may be. If the dog's problems are so severe, you have chosen yourself to pay those bills as opposed to PTS the dog or rehome it with someone who will not begrudge the vet bills in exchange of companionship.

 

I am NOT defending this breeder, but am concerned for other, better breeders, that they might be held accountable for every hiccup the dog makes from puppyhood to adulthood. Dogs are living creatures, they may have unforeseeable problems that are not necessarily the breeders fault. When I purchase dogs, I have done so without a formal contract and when an incident came up where a dog did not meet my expectations, I did not ever expect to get my money back and keep the dog. I understand how hard it would be to give up a dog that you are bonded too, and therein lies the choice.

[jenkshipley]

Although I have already expressed concern regarding this particular breeder (mostly volume and lack of continued working generations), I do not think it is reasonable, unless expressly stated in a contract, to expect a refund on a three year old dog. I also believe it is the breeders perogative to ask for the dog in return. If you purchased a companion, that dog is fulfilling that role, however flawed it may be. If the dog's problems are so severe, you have chosen yourself to pay those bills as opposed to PTS the dog or rehome it with someone who will not begrudge the vet bills in exchange of companionship.

 

I am NOT defending this breeder, but am concerned for other, better breeders, that they might be held accountable for every hiccup the dog makes from puppyhood to adulthood. Dogs are living creatures, they may have unforeseeable problems that are not necessarily the breeders fault. When I purchase dogs, I have done so without a formal contract and when an incident came up where a dog did not meet my expectations, I did not ever expect to get my money back and keep the dog. I understand how hard it would be to give up a dog that you are bonded too, and therein lies the choice.

 

 

 

Good points. Dogs are not perfect. Any puppy is a risk not matter how ethical the breeder. However, these are far from hiccups. I bought this dog in good faith as a performance prospect. Her health issues and temperament issues have nothing to do with me, her care, her upbringing, her training, etc. She did not have an injury, become ill due to care, not managed to be successful in performance due to training, etc. I do not begrudge her the care she needs or the expense she has cost. I feel a responsible breeder who cares about the puppies they have produced would be willing and interested in helping cover the costs or at least refunding the purchase.

 

I hope that others who might buy a dog here are careful to research past problems, health issues and temperament issues. "Better" breeders will not face these problems. They would not continue to breed a line with known issues.

 

Best,

Jen

[jdarling]

They would not continue to breed a line with known issues.

 

Unfortunately, they do because people buy them. Bottom line. People don't do their homework ahead of time, and many make impulse buys, and that alone keeps breeders like this one in business.

 

I do not buy my dogs on contract either. All puppies are a crapshoot. There is no way a breeder can guarantee anyone a performance dog, and to list such in a contract would be nothing short of stupid. But they do it. And they charge an arm and a leg for puppies. And they can because people buy them.

 

If she has guarantees in the contract that says she would refund your money for the particular issues you're having -- and she opts not to do so -- you can bring suit against her. If not, then she's not liable and you don't have a case. If you feel the contract protects you, I would find it and not wait for her to find it for you.

 

I do not agree with this persons breeding practices, and the information on her website alone would have stopped me in my tracks (and it makes me wonder why it doesn't stop everybody else on the planet), but I also do not feel a breeder is responsible for the dog for the rest of its life for everything that may go wrong with it.

[jenkshipley]

If she has guarantees in the contract that says she would refund your money for the particular issues you're having -- and she opts not to do so -- you can bring suit against her. If not, then she's not liable and you don't have a case. If you feel the contract protects you, I would find it and not wait for her to find it for you.

 

I do not agree with this persons breeding practices, and the information on her website alone would have stopped me in my tracks (and it makes me wonder why it doesn't stop everybody else on the planet), but I also do not feel a breeder is responsible for the dog for the rest of its life for everything that may go wrong with it.

 

 

 

I am angry that I had the issues that I did with my dog. I will honestly admit that. I am much more angry for my little dog then I am for myself. I made a poor judgement choice buying from this breeder. I am the first to admit that. Let's keep in mind that Fever had no choice in this matter.

 

I am a vocal, outspoken person and I will stand up and speak out about what I feel is right. If you knew me personally and had been witness to all that this little dog and I have gone through together, you might feel differently then you do. You might not. You are entitled to your opinion. Mine remains that this should not be a question of whether the breeder "should" be or "contracturally is" responsible for this dog, but should be a question of the breeder wanting to support and take responsibility for what has happened with a dog they have bred no matter what the age. Many genetic conditions can't even be confirmed until the age of 2 or older, like hip dysplasia or epilepsy.

 

I will be extremely careful from whom I buy in the future if I buy a dog at all. I hope I have warned some people off from buying there and educated others on not making such a poor choice. That was my intent in posting my email and in commenting from personal experience in the first place when the entire topic was started.

 

I think at this point is it clear that no one's opinion of what is right and what is wrong is going to change in my situation or in breeding in general. Everyone is clearly on one side of the fence or another.

[juliepoudrier]

Jen,

I think the problem that many have with your stance is that things like IBD and epilepsy can pop up in even the most well-planned and carefully researched breedings. To hold a breeder responsible for every possible *unforseen* genetic or other health issue that could go wrong with a pup is expecting too much, IMO. A breeder can breed two dogs with excellent hips and still end up with a dysplastic pup. Is that the breeder's fault? No, it's the crap shoot that is genetics. And then there's the whole nature vs. nurture argument. Perhaps a pup out of two excellent parents (hips) had a genetic propensity toward CHD (that genetic crap shoot) but in one super careful home that genetic propensity was never "activated" while in a less careful home, the pup did go on to develop CHD. There's no way any breeder can guarantee you a dog of perfect health years down the line. According to your POV a breeder's responsibility *never* ends, even for unforseen events or situations. I am not defending this particular breeder because I think their breeding practices are questionable, but your very rigid stance on this issue may well mean that you will *never* find a breeder who can satisfy your demands. (I for one would hesitate to sell a pup to someone with your stated expectations.) As for behavioral/temperament issues, I think you have a special case because there is documented evidence of other related dogs with temperament issues. In most situations, I'd be willing to bet that the handling of the dog by its owner is what will cause behavioral issues. It's a very sticky situation and unfortunately I think this is very much a case of "buyer beware" and you admit you failed to do your research. You have certainly brought the issues with this breeder to light and hopefully others will learn from your very costly mistake.

 

For most of us buying from working breeders, the purchase price is a very, very small part of the overall cost of owning a dog. From my POV, if I wanted to keep a dog with issues, I'd just eat the purchase price, since it generally is $500 or less. I can see where it might be more painful if you've paid a thousand or more for a pup, but I also think if a breeder is refunding a purchase price, that breeder ought to have the option of taking the dog back. JMO.

 

J.

[jenkshipley]

According to your POV a breeder's responsibility *never* ends, even for unforseen events or situations. I am not defending this particular breeder because I think their breeding practices are questionable, but your very rigid stance on this issue may well mean that you will *never* find a breeder who can satisfy your demands.

 

 

It is a risk I discussed with friends, some of whom breed, and some who do not, in publically airing the issue I have had with RS and the problems I have had with my dog that some breeders will not consider selling to me in the future. I am okay with that. If you are uncomfortable with the stance I have taken against RS, don't sell a dog to me. A breeder who takes the time to ask around about me, get to know me, meet me, meet my dogs, talk to people that know me, check with my veterinarinan - all things I feel someone should do before selling anyone a puppy, should not have any reservations in selling to me. I will have little reservations in buying from that type of breeder. That type of breeder would not be producing 15 litters + of animals a year nor breeding for income.

 

As you said, things happen. If you are responsible, selective and careful in your breeding, they should not happen very often and when they do, I would hope you would do something to compensate those who have bought a pup from you in good faith. If asking someone to return a dog they have raised to adulthood seems fair to you, that's your opinion. It isn't mine although I was never actually offered my money back upon return. Not that I ever would have considered that option.

 

As you also said, I have learned from this experience, but this isn't really about me. It is about my dog. She didn't have the opportunity to avoid the problem in the first place.

 

Jen

[Debbie Meier]

Can kinda see why some of the stock dog breeders are not keen on selling dogs into sport/companion/pet homes. Breed, sell and purchase stock dogs to be stock dogs, if they don't work or can't work return it for a replacement. If you don't want to return it due to fear of what will be done with it, that's your choice keep your dog and go purchase another. If you purchase for anything but stock work, your on your own.

 

Things have gotten so complex with all the health, temperment and behaivor demands that I believe would naturally be bred away from due to impeding a dogs ability to reliably work and/or produce reliable workers. Problem is, so many are breeding other priorities and/or not caring about the ability to work as their priority when they buy.

 

It would be interesting to evaluate the dam and sire of the problematic dog as stockdog breeding stock, how solid are they in the working pen, or did behaivor and temperment issues impede their ability to be proven? When the breeder put the pair together did they consider the faults and try to mate in an effort to make an improvement, or was it just a male and female athletic pair of bc's mated together the show some desire to work livestock? That's what I look at when I'm evaluating pups, not the pup.

 

To me it's not about the breeder, it's about the buyer, did the buyer agree or feel comfortable with the breeding when they committed to the pup? If so they were willing to take the risk right along with the breeder, when you purchase a pup from someone you are buying into their breeding decisions, basically saying you agree or trust their judgement. Understanding the parents of the pup can be a pretty clear window into the soul of your pup. If the buyer can't see through the window don't buy, if you don't buy, the breeder looses an out for their pups, end of program.

 

BTW, I'm avoiding using the "Working Dog" term and replacing it with "Stock Dog" in this post out of respect for those that consider dog sports and other working venues as work for a border collie, basically short circuiting any confusion as to what I mean as opposed to say breeding working dogs for work.

 

Deb

[juliepoudrier]

Jen,

My comments weren't meant to be taken in terms of *me* selling to *you.* (I've bred exactly one litter, all sold to people I know well and in working homes.) It's about what a puppy buyer can reasonably expect in terms of *guarantees* from a puppy seller and when the breeder's responsibility for the health of a dog ends and also what responsibilities the buyer must accept. I think we've already established that the breeder you got your dog from isn't the gold standard of breeders--in fact far from it. But I also think--based on your statements here--that your criteria for what a breeder must guarantee are a bit too demanding. I don't think any breeder can meet such a high standard as to guarantee a pup will *never* have a genetic defect, seen or unseen. And that's what you seem to be saying you're looking for. And you also seem to be stating that if an unforseeable genetic problem arises down the line then it's the breeder's responsibility to refund the purchase price, no questions asked. I don't see how any breeder can meet such a standard, especially when some genetic-based conditions have a nurture component as well. (And of course the temperament/behavioral issue is another kettle o' fish altogether--it's been established that temperament issues are a problem in this breeder's dogs, but what if a breeder has a long history of temperamentally sound dogs and then one pops up with problems? Who assumes responsibility? Can the breeder be held accountable for a dog with behavioral issues that has been raised by someone else for upward of a year or more, especially when that breeder has no past history of dogs with temperament/behavior problems? Do you see what I'm saying?)

 

I understand that a lot of your comments are based on the very bad experience you have had with this one dog. But I also think that you learned your lesson about what to look for in a breeder, and I think it's great that you were willing to post about your experiences here as a warning to others to do their homework. I just don't think requiring a breeder to be responsible for every potential health problem for the life of the dog is realistic. I have an older dog who has arthritis and is hypothyroid. He is being treated for both of those things, and I imagine both could be argued to have a genetic component. By your stated reasoning here, I should be able to go back to his breeder and demand my puppy price back (a decade or more later) because the health issues he's having can have a genetic component. I doubt that you really meant that sort of thing when you made your comments about guarantees, etc., but this example could be taken as a logical conclusion of where such demands could lead.

 

ETA: Very good post Debbie. I think I am coming at this issue with the same POV as you, which might explain why there's an apparent disconnect between how I see things and how Jen sees them.

 

J.

[jenkshipley]

As you said, things happen. If you are responsible, selective and careful in your breeding, they should not happen very often and when they do, I would hope you would do something to compensate those who have bought a pup from you in good faith. If asking someone to return a dog they have raised to adulthood seems fair to you, that's your opinion. It isn't mine although I was never actually offered my money back upon return. Not that I ever would have considered that option.

 

 

 

Oh, and one more thing. I would buy a young adult whose lines I could research for genetic disorders from anyone. I am not likely to buy a puppy again simply because I am, similar to someone buying a trained dog to work stock, buying for a specific purpose. I can tell a lot after a few weeks of time spent with an adult that I would have to wait a year or more to tell about a puppy. I would absolutely send an adult dog back if I felt it would not work for me or if x-rays or blood tests taken at my own expense did not have good results. I would not have an emotional bond with that dog verses a puppy I had raised.

 

I will be completely and utterly shocked if I ever decide to buy a puppy again.

 

Jen

[jdarling]

Jen,

 

I can completely understand how you feel. I think many of us on this board have made the initial mistake of buying from a less-than-reputable breeder and have suffered the heartache because of it. I would say that you probably would not buy a puppy for a while ... but give it some time and some little cutie is going to worm its way into your heart. I swore up and down I'd never get another puppy, and well ... that theory failed and is about to fail again ... in a big way.

 

The contracts, to me, cause more problems than they avoid. Often times, they state that the breeder will not cover X, X and X, but will cover Y, Z, A, B and C. However, the rest of the alphabet is left out of the soup, and the problems that come about are somewhere around Q. If you go in knowing you're on your own, I think there's a different mindset completely. You go in knowing the pup is a complete risk, and you make decisions accordingly.

[Debbie Meier]

ETA: Very good post Debbie. I think I am coming at this issue with the same POV as you, which might explain why there's an apparent disconnect between how I see things and how Jen sees them.

 

 

And I worked so hard resisting posting to this thread, all the way from the beginning....

[jenkshipley]

I just don't think requiring a breeder to be responsible for every potential health problem for the life of the dog is realistic. I have an older dog who has arthritis and is hypothyroid. He is being treated for both of those things, and I imagine both could be argued to have a genetic component. By your stated reasoning here, I should be able to go back to his breeder and demand my puppy price back (a decade or more later) because the health issues he's having can have a genetic component. I doubt that you really meant that sort of thing when you made your comments about guarantees, etc., but this example could be taken as a logical conclusion of where such demands could lead.

 

 

 

I keep deciding that I am done posting and then I keep finding reasons to respond.

 

I have a dyplastic dog. I had a dog who had thyroid problems. I have a dog whose structure is less then perfect. I didn't ask for refunds from the breeder for any of those dogs.

 

This is a specific case about this particular breeder and this particular dog, although it does involve other people who have related dogs.

 

A. There are known and ignored temperament issues in the lines. I feel that if the breeder knew about these issues that I ethically should have been informaed before purchasing a puppy for $1000.

 

B. I was told, despite the numerous past problems and the problems in my puppy's own litter, that I was at fault for the temperament issues that surfaced when I let the breeder know about them. I was not offered a refund but was told I could return the dog. I declined and did not contact the breeder again - until -

 

C. The dog then developed serious, non-related but multiple health issues.

 

D. The dog's mother and father are still regularly being bred with no regard to the issues that have surfaced in my dog or in other, related dogs.

 

This is not a stance against all breeders nor do I think every single problem that can happen with a dog should cause the owner to receive a full refund. Certainly not. I do absolutely think that I am entitled to a refund and that the breeder should be happy, not upset that I chose to keep the dog instead of return her. I think anyone breeding should consider carefully what they themselves would do in this particular situation and not generalize the issue that was directed towards one breeder and not all.

 

Best,

Jen

 

 

Best,

Jen

[Ooky]

This thread is interesting to me because I bought a puppy with several health checks/guarantees that required $5,000 worth of vet care in the first year. My breeder told us before we took the pup home that they wanted the dog returned to them if there were problems and if I was ever thinking of getting rid of the dog. Now, my situation isn't like Jen's (yet -- knock on wood) in that my dog appears at 14 months to have an extremely stable temperament, seems totally healthy in other respects, and even has even showed some initial and workable talent on stock.

 

So not the same situation (and not from RS) but sort of similar. I can easily see why Jen would be so reluctant to give up Fever but I find I can't really buy the argument that the breeder should or is obligated to refund the purchase price. Jen argues that the saddest and most helpless victim in all this is Fever, which I agree with. By coming on the message board publicly and stating your case with such good evidence and information, Jen is at least helping protect future dogs bred by them the best she can, in Fever's name. OTOH, the argument of why the money should be refunded at this point seems to be because Jen needs another agility dog. I just don't see how that is RS's responsibility after they have offered to take the dog Jen is having problems with back (and didn't they offer a replacement pup in return, too?).

 

I can't imagine feeling I had the "buyer's right" to hold a breeder to that level of responsibility. Beyond that, Odin's purchase price is a drop in the bucket compared to his medical expenses. I chose the breeder, I bought the pup, which was a fluffball of potential, and have been very very happy about some things, less so about one other thing. But I feel that I bought BOTH the package that is not only him the animal I love, but him the living, physical representation of my own decision to support the breeding of that particular sire and dam and in general support that breeder's breeding practices.

 

I do agree with Jen and others that RS does not appear to be a kennel that puts a lot of time or effort into choosing their breeding matches, their pup placements, future pup-owner welfare, or much of anything else. I finally went to the website and discovered they also breed bengals - one of the most lucrative cat "breeds". I might add they have BEAUTIFUL bengals that look terrifyingly close to the wild crosses and that I am willing to bet have tons of temperament, health, and behavioral issues too (since every vet who ever saw Lobo said exactly the same thing - all of his problems were par for the course with the entire "breed"). I blanketly disagree with bengal breeding and others may not, but to me that as much as anything alludes to their true animal husbandry philosophy (e.g., I will cross whatever I want with whatever I want to achieve aims based on looks/flash/trends/profit, NOT the welfare of the animals being bred). But I also don't think the buyer of a bengal kitten has much recourse as partly that should be addressed before ever choosing the animal and supporting its breeding in the first place.

 

I do think that after this thread hopefully more prospective buyers will know to stay away from them. That in itself is a good victory! I truly hope Jen is able to come to a good place with the whole situation, with or without RS's help.