managing the end, somewhat morbid

[bcnewe2]

My last 2 animals (a cat and dog) were kindly put to sleep at home on their own beds. I didn't have to deal with fear being one of their issues but had that been an issue, I'd have asked for the right kind of seditive to give before the vet got there.

I would much rather have them where they are comfortable than in the enviroment of a vets office, personal prefrence I suppose. But the seditive would be the most important part for a fearful dog.

What does dormital do to him? Would that work? Could he be given enough before he got there to drift off to sleep first? I'd be looking into what might work. Liquid morphine, maybe a shot that you could administer yourself?

 

Such hard things will be in my not so distant future with my senior girls. Raven is so nervous where ever she goes, it's not the vet, it's everywhere. BUt she is not really afraid of people. I would never dream of taking her anywhere if I can help it. I will find a vet that will do it here or where ever we end up.

 

I understand why you are thinking about this. But if I were you, I'd come up with a plan and then quickly put it out of your mind. You will do what you have to do when you have to do it. It's part of our deep love and devotion for them.

[Jo&Tex]

I consider myself to be a very Spocklogical person who has great control of her emotions. Losing Nell stripped me raw and I'm still not over her, not by a long shot. The Mist, the sheepdog puppy movie just slays me, Sir Gregory looks so much like Nell and has the same mannerisms. I just sit and weep whenever I watch it.

 

Every loss in my life has been sudden. I've been presented with it and I had to deal...no chance to get used to the idea. Nell was different. I knew she was dying and that took me to a new level of emotion. She taught me about myself and I'll always be grateful to her for that.

 

The last few nights Nell was having seizures and then was better the next day. There was no clear cut sign that is was time. Dogs are so stoic with their pain. She just endured and looked to me to ease her. She would never dream of demanding anything from me...she was willing to wait and trust me implicitly...no matter how bad her discomfort.

 

I had to decide when, not Nell. All the plaitudes of 'she'll let you know when it's time' were no comfort to me because I knew she'd never share that with me. When the cancer moved into her throat, she could no longer swallow but she was clearly hungry. She could still run and wrassle with Loki on that last day. The next morning, on the way into the vet's office, she stopped to roll in the snow. In the office doorway, she went down and wouldn't budge. I pulled her thru into the office and held her on the floor. She licked my wrist as her life ebbed.

 

For her and me, it was an easy end. I can barely grasp the horror of having to deal with a dog fighting not to go. Nell was given to me to teach me to let go.

[MickeyDogs]

I was fortunate to have my last dog's end come in my car with my arms around her. I drove to the clinic, at 2 in the morning no less, and the vet came out, did the deed, then discreetly went back inside while I said goodbye and composed myself. Then she came back out and took the body inside. Later I picked up the ashes and paid the bill. I was lucky in many ways; there was no doubt it was time and the end came easily (RIP Jessie).

 

Dogs are amazing in so many ways and one of them, at least to me, is how gracefully and accepting they age. They don’t seem to mind losing their hearing or their sight and seem to continue their puppy-like enjoyment of life until the end. Our burden is knowing when the time has come and being selfless enough to do what they need when they need it. It’s been my experience it’s seldom that they go quietly in their sleep and my one dog that did should have been helped a couple days earlier, for her sake (RIP Nifty). Losing a young dog is a whole different ball game (RIP Katie) ...

 

Planning is good; dwelling on it robs us of enjoying their old age. I love old dogs (good thing – my 2 are pushing 12… ).

[btrent]

Absolutely insist that the dog will be sedated before the final injection is given. If you need to prepare in advance to give that sedative at home, or choose a particular drug, so be it. Just insist. Pay more, it doesn't matter, but do it.

 

More than 25 yrs ago I was a vet's assistant and helped with (way too many) drop-off euthanasias. Lesson learned.

[SoloRiver]

Solo is comfortable greeting strangers in many neutral places but being handled by strangers, no way. Not anywhere I'm afraid. He'll let people take his leash and lead him off somewhere, and he'll do an agility course for pretty much anyone who can handle, and work sheep, ditto -- but in terms of physically handling him, ain't gonna happen. Having the vet come to the house won't help, because Solo is deeply suspicious of intruders. Having the vet come out to the car won't work either, since Solo is deeply defensive of the car (and what's more, feels cornered there).

 

Once to get Solo's rabies vaccination, I took him to one of those low-cost vaccination clinics at the local pet food store (Pet Food Express) and told the vet my situation. The vet came out of the store to the parking lot, snuck up behind Solo while I had Solo on a leash, and gave him the shot pretty much before Solo even noticed. That has been the only "easy" injection anyone has ever given Solo, other than me. I give Solo subcu Adequan injections every week.

 

I am probably the only person who can put a needle in him without him being scared. I am not sure he would let my husband do it. Actually, I am pretty sure he would not let my husband do it. That's just a little bit too invasive.

 

It is looking like my best option would be to give Solo an IM sedative beforehand, like Dormitor, so he is just out cold and has no idea what is happening. I have euthanized a beloved dog before and I know that it can be a peaceful death. But Harley trusted everyone and had no concept of badness or evil, since nothing bad had ever happened to her in her entire life. I don't think it will be like that with Solo unless I make sure that nothing can go wrong.

 

I will have to develop a very good relationship with a vet, I am guessing. If we were near, I would ask Solo's behaviorist, but we are on the other side of the country now. I have a very hard time finding good vet care for Solo. He is a very unsympathetic patient, and I am pretty sure he has gotten sub-par care in the past because of it. I try very hard, I always send thank you notes and photos of Solo in his element so they can see that he is not always like a wild animal. But I am not sure it really helps, because when they handle him, he is like a wild animal.

 

Thanks again for your input. It is very valuable.

[bc4ever]

If our experiences with Charlotte can help just one person not to have to deal with what we did my tears are more than worth it.

 

For those that don't know Charlotte was only 4 yrs old.

 

Planning ahead is something that should be done.

Oh God. I'm actually physically ill and crying right now. How horrible for you. I'm so sorry you and Charlotte had to go through that. How traumatic. And so young. Our Scooter just turned four in December. I hope you have found some peace. Loving thoughts being sent to you tonight.

 

Pam

[bc4ever]

I have thought about this with every dog I've loved. I think it's horrible that they should have to pass in a place they hate. I think that about humans, who are forced to pass in a hospital room that smells of antiseptic, is lit by glaring fluorescents, and noisy with the sounds of technological care.

 

I think we should push that there be a way for both dogs and humans to go in their own homes or some other loved place, when it is time.

Mary

I totally agree. I still hear the incessant beeping of those damned machines sometimes when I close my eyes at night...

[2 Devils]

I am lucky in many ways. Our regular vets would probably give us sedatives in advance. They trust us more than they do most patients. I also have a holistic vet that would give us whatever we needed. She would probably come to the house even since she comes for the doggie chiro/acupuncture stuff it would be after that would be a problem. The holistic vet is actually an equine vet and does not have an office. I know more now than I did when Charlotte had to go through things.

 

We have a very good relationship with our vets and I am thankful for that. They donated money to cancer research for canines in the name of Charlotte, they had an ornament made and sent to us along with some other things. They do these things for all patients. We have very caring vets and I wish everyone could be so lucky.

 

I would highly recommend them to anyone and anyone who has listened agree. I have to take about 1/2 day off work to take my dogs if we have a week day appt because of where I work, live and where they are located. It is all worth it.

 

Sorry for hijacking.

 

Melanie - you will do what is best for Solo, Fly and Jett.

 

It was good that you brought this up because it will help others. Drugs are good.

[NC_Y2K9]

I can't thank everyone enough for this thread.

 

I had to go with my 80-yr old Dad to the ER vet just a few hours ago for his heart dog, Duchess. She was diagnosed with anemia (IMHA) 2 weeks ago and got the all-clear at her vet visit yesterday.

 

Today, she was vomiting, lethargic and seemingly in pain. Tonight's diagnosis was pancreatitis but she also had several seizures and the possibility is that the pancreatitis caused her to throw a blood clot which caused the neurological symptoms.

 

My mother is home with a broken leg, so after several phonecalls home to her, walking back and forth from the exam room where my Dad was stroking Duchess and crying, we left Duchess there for overnight treatment. They can manage her pain, but she won't have "her" people. To take her home would mean a painful passing, but in familiar surroundings with loved ones.

 

Just knowing that her odds are less than 50/50 makes it very possible I'll have to help my aging parents navigate their way through this really difficult time - and all your posts and suggestions have really helped.

[Denise Wall]

This is something on my mind a lot since Molly is 16.5 + and I don't think she'll make it to 17. There's nothing wrong with her, she's just getting too old and weak to function. It would be a blessing if she just died in her sleep but I've never had one do that. She's a real fighter; I know I'll have to make the decision.

 

My vets will give me a sedative for them beforehand if I need it and come out to my house. When Kelly, Molly's littermate, was put down three years ago, she didn't need a sedative. They then took her back with them to be cremated.

 

When Rob was put down, I took him in. He loved the vets. He had "boarded" with them on occasion and spent the whole time in their lounge room on the couch. He was happy there, and went peacefully as I wished, but it took two hours before I could drive home only a few miles away.

 

I would say with Solo, give him whatever he needs to knock him out beforehand, and try to get them to come to your house. It's easier on everybody.

 

You're smart to plan ahead. You'll want to concentrate on your last moments with him and how you what things to be for him at the end without being distracted by technical details.

[Soda-pop]

I am way to lazy to read all the responses so here is my dog's euth plan if that time comes. He also suffers from "white coat" syndrome and will absolutely eat a vet.

 

It will be at home, for sure. I work at a shelter so I know I could do it at home and have friends do it. Most people don't get that luxury.

 

He will be dosed with Premix (or Legend) it's a general anesthetic. It's a mix of 5 parts ketamine, 1 part xylazine. Some animals, particuarly cats, will barf with the xylazine, but hoenstly, I've not seen many. It's an IM injection and I'm pretty sure I could sneek that in while we're cuddling. They go out pretty quick with that.

 

Then, it's just the end and the fatal dose of Fatal Plus will be delivered, hopefully by IV if the pulse isn't too weak but because I'm so familiar with the process AND if he's unconcious, I don't care about IC, but admittedly would prefer IV.

 

Anyway, the point is: Ask for Premix (or Legend). It makes it all so easy and you don't need a vein.

[Sasha's Mom]

Random thoughts from the other side (human) of medicine.

 

Presedation is something to consider. Depending on the reaction, benadryl might be an easy option. Sure it isn't that strong, but it will take the edge off.

 

I had to take in a foster nearly a year ago (has it really been that long??) She was suffering and neurologically devastated from distemper, so the decision was easy. It was quick, and very painless. More quiet and painless, in fact, than 95% of the human deaths I preside over. As my Nikolai is going on 13 or so (GSD), I've given it some thought. He used to be really bad at the vet, but lately when we go, I take lots of yummy treats. He's a different dog if I have the BilJac liver treat box, I swear. It won't work for all, but might for him. I would premedicate. Benadryl works well for him, whereas Ace just makes him weird and scared. (I don't like Ace) Hell, I'd probably go get him a drive-through cheeseburger too. With extra cheese. Nik does anything for cheese.

 

When I took Sine to the vet, she was so far gone that it didn't matter than she'd never seen that vet before.

 

Really, just the fact that you are even thinking about this in advance shows you care. Most people's instinct is to run and hide and not acknowledge it until it we are past that point. Or at least, it seems that way when it comes to my elderly patients. Just be there - your presence is worth more than anything.

[SoloRiver]

My husband is an emergency physician. Unfortunately, all the euthanasia drugs are the type of thing you can't exactly sign out from the pharmacy and take home without someone wondering what you're doing with them, otherwise this would be a much easier problem to solve. I have assisted in enough canine blood draws now that I have a good working knowledge of how to get a foreleg or hindleg stick, although I wouldn't bet money on my ability to get one flawlessly, especially not on an old sick dog. I do know how to hold, and how to raise a vein. Perhaps by the time it becomes an issue Solo will trust my husband enough to let me hold and my husband get the needle in, but without being able to get the drugs in the first place, the issue is moot.

 

I wish that bringing food treats would make a difference for Solo but they don't. When he was young and naive they seemed to help, but he's been around the block a few times with vets and no longer has any optimism about vet visits. There's no way to avoid doing at least some things to Solo at the vet that make him scared and uncomfortable, so he has learned that the vet is where scary uncomfortable things happen to him. I might be able to get him over the vet thing if there were also sheep every time he went to the vet, but it would be difficult to make that happen.

 

Premedication would require something a lot stronger than Benadryl. I have tried horking huge doses of Xanax before vet visits and I guess they make a difference, but the vets never believe me when I tell them how much he's had. You would not believe the amount of Xanax a dog can absorb and still be anxious when you put them in a situation that is that highly charged. They take human-sized doses anyway and... well, it's pretty remarkable.

 

Premix/Legend sounds like it is related to Telazol. Solo has had Telazol before as a pre-anesthetic and it worked well for him (WAY better than Ace, which was a total nightmare). It would have worked better if he'd gotten it before he was all wigged out and the adrenaline was going, but it did work. Either I or my husband would be able to give an IM injection at home quite easily.

 

I am not worried that I won't know when it's time. I know that I'll know. I will never let anything bad happen to Solo as long as prevention is within my power, and that includes being better off dead. I do retain hope that by the time the time comes this will all be a nonissue, that Solo will be old and tired and ready to go. But so many of his problem behaviors are rooted in a primal instinct for self-preservation. I don't want him to walk into this like it's his last battle and everything is on the line -- especially when, for once, he'll be proven right about the motivation and the outcome.

 

Thanks again everyone. I know this decision is way off in the future -- other than the arthritis and slightly blue cast to his eyes Solo is in perfect shape and appears to observers to be a much younger dog. He hasn't greyed at all and is just as bright and alert as ever. He only looks creaky when he runs. I'd just rather be prepared.

[mbc1963]

Here's something veterinary science should be working on: a pill that could be prescribed to owners when dogs are very ill or very aged. The pill could be administered at home by the owners. Maybe two pills: one to knock the dog out, and one to finish the work.

 

This would be a great kindness. Medical people understand this far better than I do - is there no drug that could do this in pill form?

 

Mary

[juliepoudrier]

I would say with Solo, give him whatever he needs to knock him out beforehand, and try to get them to come to your house. It's easier on everybody.

 

My thoughts exactly. You have had in the past prescriptions for something like Prozac and diazepam haven't you. If it were me, I'd discuss with my vet what the best cocktail of such drugs would be that I could give ahead of time to pretty much knock him out at home (ISTM a high dose of valium or some other barbituate type drug would get the desired effect--I don't know if you'd need to add something else to put him in a mentally happy place) and then still have the vet come to the house to do the euthanasia, but only after I had already administered whatever was necessary to make him pretty much unaware of what's going on around him. You can say your goodbyes while waiting for the drugs you use to take effect, and time everything so that he'll not notice when the vet arrives to finally send him on.

 

FWIW, I've got a 14 y.o., one who's 12.5, one who's 11.5, and one who just turned 10, so sooner or later I'll be facing the same issue. I don't dwell on that time, but I already know I'd do something like suggested above before having the vet come here or taking the dog there (in my situation, none are particularly concerned about going to the vet, but it would still be easier on us to have the vet come here).

 

J.

[laurie etc]

Consider asking your vet for valium supositories (no needles involved, but fairly quick to act). A friend with an epileptic dog keeps them on hand, so she can quickly administer if her dog starts seizing and won't stop. It is a controlled substance, but can be prescribed (not sure of the shelf life, though). Laurie

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

Our current elderly vet does house calls and I wish I had known him when it was Kirby's time.

 

I do agree putting them to sleep in the car is less frightening although it's only a second usually before they go. For some reason Kirby's didnt go as well as some others I've seen. He kept breathing long after it should have been done. I think it took 6 mins or more.

 

Lets hope for Solo's sake he goes like Pep. Has a nice day of playing eats a hearty meal and passes in his favorite chair.

[Soda-pop]

Premix/Legend sounds like it is related to Telazol. Solo has had Telazol before as a pre-anesthetic and it worked well for him (WAY better than Ace, which was a total nightmare). It would have worked better if he'd gotten it before he was all wigged out and the adrenaline was going, but it did work. Either I or my husband would be able to give an IM injection at home quite easily.

 

Premix is related to Telazol. Telazol is more expenisve so most places make their own. I'm not sure what chemicals Telazol is comprised of. I love Premix. I had my cat PTS and she was premixed first. I was able to snuggle her while my friend gave her a quick IM injection and then she never had to be restrained. It was truly a good death.

 

You may not be able to get a script for Premix b/c I believe Ketamine is class 2 and highly controlled, but they also have home euth services that are able to carry it... or if you have a good vet friend that will let you take some home, that's nice too.

 

It's good to have a plan for things like this. I do.

[KrisK]

I can't read all the posts....with Zachary having some strange health issues, I'm not at all ready to deal with the inevitable - whenever that time comes. That being said, I had my vet come to my house when I had Brandy pts. She hated the vet office and I would not put her through that on her last day. In an article I read yesterday, the woman had her retriever pts in her car. He loved going for car rides and was content. In the same article, another woman was ready to take her dog in, was on the phone with the vet, when the dog quietly died at home.

 

I hope we all have a lot more time with our dogs....

[denice]

Yes, this is a tough subject. Working as a vet tech for years I have helped many people and dogs in this situation and cried more times for dogs that I barely knew. I have held my own dogs in my arms for their last moments and always felt that at that moment as hard as it was there is no where else I could be.

 

Some vets put in an IV cath fist. then use a soloution of basically heavy anesthetic that should take effect in minutes or less. Some vets are very good at injections in the vein and do not use the cath first. There are good and bad to both ways. I think if the vet is very good one injection of the drugs makes things quick and simple. If the vet is uncertain then go for the cath. The drugs stop the breathing and mental activity and then the heart. There can be involuntary muscle activity after death, urination, defication and what looks like 'gasping' which is disturbing to see but it is just muscle activity. Most of the time it all goes very smoothly but not always.

 

Most vets will not allow anyone else access to these drugs due to the classification of these drugs since indeed they are lethal, even techs unless in the hospital. You may be able to ask the vet to come out to the car or ask ahead of time about them coming to the house. The house call would most likely have to be after hours. I would encourage you to discuss this with your vet now so that you are awre of policies and what to expect.

 

I think helping our wonderful dogs end life peacefully is one of the greatest gifts we can give them.

 

hope that helps,

Denice

[bc friend]

I guess I've been lucky. Most of my pets have not been afraid of the vet but the two who were normally terrified and aggressive at the vet's office were both so sick at the end that they could have cared less where I took them - with one cat (who normally terrorized the staff - even at age 23) and who I was so emotionally invested in "saving", my vet pointed out that her lying quietly and disinterestedly on the exam table was a definite sign that she was ready "to go." My 2 current seniors both like the vet's office so it is one less thing to worry about while I see them through their old age.

 

I think planning ahead is a good thing, and you've gotten some great suggestions here on how to manage the end. It won't help with your current situtation but I also think the best solution is to work with your pets from an early age to make them comfortable at the vet's office - it's not just old dogs that sometimes have to be put down and you can't always plan ahead.

[SoloRiver]

Sure.

 

I hope you don't think I haven't worked with Solo to try and make him comfortable at the vet's office. Solo is probably the most "socialized" dog on these Boards. Trust me -- I know perfectly well how to do behavior mod and we have walked in and out of cooperative vet offices with really really yummy treats probably thousands of times.

 

It isn't the solution to everything and it isn't a solution at all if it isn't going to work. Solo is both extremely intelligent, and pathologically anxious. He knows very well what is going to happen at the vet, and frankly, there is no way to sugar coat what happens at the vet for a dog who thinks that being handled by strangers is always a potentially dangerous situation. And the truth is, usually something unpleasant happens to dogs at the vet -- normal dogs simply tolerate it. Solo isn't normal. There are some things that certain dogs will never be OK with. Surprise, it isn't always a matter of pulling out your little clicker (by the way, I own dozens) and some nummy nummy treats.

[bc friend]

Melanie, I didn't mean to suggest in any way that you hadn't tried to desensatize Solo to the vet - and I'm aware from the 2 I've had that didnt' like the vet - that desensatization doesn't always work but it's the best solution I've found so far.

[Sasha's Mom]

I've given this a little more thought (and of course, some wine), but the rectal valium (the human brand is Diastat) may be what you're looking for as a reliable presedation. 10 mg is the adult human dose, and while that's for a sterotypical 70kg person, it would probably work for a 30 kg very anxious dog, too. There's a pediatric version, but the dosing escapes me.

 

I'm a human ER doc too, and although benzos are generally verboten for family, I'd probably write for it in a case like this. (For the record, I keep keflex on hand for my fosters and have no qualms writing for it.) And if my Nik was nearly as bad as your Solo at the vet, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

(edited because the cat jumped on the keyboard and hit enter before I was ready)

[bc4ever]

A few days ago my husband pointed out that both Solo and Fly have blue casts to their eyes. Fly turned 10 on Christmas. Solo will be 10 in May.

Showing my inexperience here, and sorry to dredge up an old post, but I've been meaning to ask, what do you mean about your dogs eyes having "blue casts?" Is that an age thing? I've been peering into Scooter's eyes ever since (he just turned four in December.) And, that was a very interesting, albeit sometimes depressing, topic. Very informative.