Jump to content
BC Boards
Dal & Mad's Mom

BC without white on their faces

Recommended Posts

We recently rescued a mom with a 5 month old pup who had white but, none near his face. His owner swears he is pure bred. (we didnt care) He didnt sell without the white when she bred the mom.

 

He is exactly marked like another dog we have 7 months also without white on his face from a pure bred mom who did mix with something (we think Sharpei) and also a border collie or high mix. As some pups looked pure.

 

I dont have recent pics of either today. I guess my question is does the lack of white throw most people off? I always assumed the guy we had might have had a 3rd dad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It certainly doesn't bother me any. One of my all time favorite dogs was totally black except for 3 white hairs on her chest and one white toe. She was also a smooth coat with prick ears. I called her my black cattle dog. I personally knew all dogs in 3 generations, all good workers all registered

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, it normally doesn't throw me off with what breed it might be. I've learned that working Border Collies come in every shape, size, and color. lol I used to prefer B/W but now I pretty much like every color. Actually, I take that back, I have seen one dog that was almost an ashy white/black/brown. Thats one of the more interesting ones I've seen :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, they're known as BFDs. That used to mean something else to me (big f***king deal!), but now it refers to my black-faced-dog - who is definitely purebred but has an all black face. Retract that - he has white on the very end of his nose, but only about 10 white hairs on the top of his head.

 

diane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it throws most people off when they are looking for the typical "proper" look of a Border Collie based on what is presented fairly often which are the cookie cutter looking dogs of the AKC. I think the fact that the pup didn't sell because of the white on its face says something about the kind of buyers the breeder appealed to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen lots of border collies without white on their faces. One of mine is like that (picture below), and I know she's pure border collie (and if there was any doubt in my mind, just seeing her with sheep would clear that right up). I do get a lot of non-border collie people asking me what she is - but border collie people always know.

 

_KAC2166.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mick is a BFD too. He scares some people. He does have some white under his bottom lip. Looks like the oppisite of a milk mustash but doesn't show when looking straight at him. He's got white on his chest and belly, about 5 white hairs on the tip of his tail and some freckling on his front feet and some white toes but he's mainly black. He does have very light brown eyes. I love black face dogs but didn't till I got him. I've had some people ask me if he's an aussie. but he's pb and it shows when he works too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet it does throw some people off. Especially those not familiar with the wide range of looks in border collies. We have a couple of BFDs here, don't we? Melanie's Jet and Laura's Linc come to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet it does throw some people off. Especially those not familiar with the wide range of looks in border collies. We have a couple of BFDs here, don't we? Melanie's Jet and Laura's Linc come to mind.

 

Speedy is pretty close to being a BFD. He only has that bit of white near his nose.

 

People don't tend to think he's not a Border Collie, though. Probably because he has plenty of white on his blaze, belly, and paws. But his face is mostly black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cody has a very thin, uneven stripe up his face (see the avatar to the side). So he looks quite black-faced, especially from a distance. I think they are way more imposing and sometimes scary looking, especially to little children, without a lot of white. That can be good or bad, since his standoffishness with little kids, combined with that "scary" looking face, deter the little ones in our neighborhood from approaching Cody and me when we're walking around the neighborhood (on leash). Better for safety anyway, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it matters and I too like a black faced dog. We had the same issue with our black GSD. Most people associate GSDs with the tan/black or red/black with saddle, but they also come in solid black, sable (agouti) and bicolor as well as various recessive dilutions (white). I do have a preference for B/W BCs (over reds and merles) but then again, I must have a b/w hang up because all my recent dogs (14 years) have been black (GSD and Portie), white (Westie) or b/w (BC) :rolleyes:

post-9307-1226970317_thumb.jpg

post-9307-1226970338_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I met a BC recently who was all black. The owner got her as a rescue dog and they have always maintained she is a cross. 

But if you saw her you would say she’s 100% Border Collie, other than being black. Is that possible? I said to the owner I don’t think she’s a cross. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would prefer it, if I would care about looks in my dogs (I don't). Same for pricked ears, tricolor and a smooth coat.

That said, my current dog-in-training ticks two of the boxes, a prickeared smooth coated dog ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, has anyone ever seen a purebred that looks like this? No white on her face or neck, apart from some stiff, short hairs under her nose. I've been asked if she's part Kelpie, but the long hair gene is recessive so I don't think she could have a purebred Kelpie parent. I know it doesn't matter but I wish I knew where she came from!

wish_sit.thumb.jpg.0e812d583f5272f1368bf38e11298cfa.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm by no means the most experienced person on the Boards, but I've seen a couple dogs in my area, (Northern CA) that look quite a lot like your girl. It doesn't surprise me at all. 

Ruth & Gibbs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a blue merle and white border collie and people sometimes insist that he can't be a "pure" border collie.  Behavior makes a border collie, not what he looks like.

One time I got into a very long discussion on an WORKING Australian shepherd forum on the mindless tradition of tail amputation.  I won't repeat all the superstitions given as reasons for this.  Finally, a very respected breeder of working Aussies said that she liked docked tails so that she could tell quickly if a dog was an Aussie or a border collie.  If the only way you can distinguish between the breeds is to cut tails off one group of dogs and not the other, is there really any difference?

Of course there are many real differences between Aussies and border collies, but the discussion showed how arbitrary appearance standards are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Michael Parkey said:

We have a blue merle and white border collie and people sometimes insist that he can't be a "pure" border collie.  Behavior makes a border collie, not what he looks like.

One time I got into a very long discussion on an WORKING Australian shepherd forum on the mindless tradition of tail amputation.  I won't repeat all the superstitions given as reasons for this.  Finally, a very respected breeder of working Aussies said that she liked docked tails so that she could tell quickly if a dog was an Aussie or a border collie.  If the only way you can distinguish between the breeds is to cut tails off one group of dogs and not the other, is there really any difference?

Of course there are many real differences between Aussies and border collies, but the discussion showed how arbitrary appearance standards are.

I am very sorry to have to tell you that in certain parts of this country, docking tails on border collies is standard. So that is hardly a way to distinguish the breeds, and I have to wonder about the knowledge or lack thereof of that Aussie breeder. Appearance standards of course, are as you say entirely arbitrary and as such are one of the worst things that human beings have done to dogs.

Anyone who wants to tell me my dog is not a purebred or real border collie because of how she or he looks is someone to whom I feel no need to explain myself or my dog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the correction!  I have never heard of docking border collies.  Where is this done?  And what is the justification?  I'll have to update my file of superstitions about dogs, LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, D'Elle said:

 Appearance standards of course, are as you say entirely arbitrary and as such are one of the worst things that human beings have done to dogs.

Anyone who wants to tell me my dog is not a purebred or real border collie because of how she or he looks is someone to whom I feel no need to explain myself or my dog.

THANK YOU!  I simply don't argue w/anyone who tries to tell me what my dog is or is not.

Sarcasm Alert ~ Years ago I let myself get trapped into such a discussion: "That's not a border collie. Border collies are black and white.'  Me: How many border collies do you know? Other Human: 'I was just watching the Madison Square Garden dog show and the border collie was black and white. So your dog is not a border collie.' Me: Thanks for letting me know, as I walked away w/my red & white, blue eyed dog. Who had the build, the intelligence, the drive and the quirkiness of a bc.

Thank God there was someone who had seen a bc on television and so helpfully corrected me. Now I can sleep at night.

Ruth & Gibbs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first border collie was a blue merle, AFAIK only the second one on the east coast. We made a short foray into obedience competition before raising sheep and working dogs and I never looked back. But before that happened, one day a woman walked up to me at an obedience competition and said she'd never seen an Aussie with a tail before. With a straight face I replied, "You still haven't." :blink:

At another obedience trial (we went to a total of 4), another woman came up to us and said. "Oh, what a nice dog. It's a real shame border collies don't have a standard." (This was pre-ACK recognition). I put on my very best dumbfounded look and replied that of course we have a standard, but it's a working standard and has nothing to do with how they look. We spoke for a few minutes but as hard as I tried to explain it, she just could. not. get her head around it. It was the last obedience competition we attended. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both my girls lack the traditional "blaze" of what people think the standard BC should look like, but Lo is my BFD. 

Interestingly, she is always called a BC while no one believes my tri girl is one. 

IMG_3017.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had several Border Collies without white on their faces, as I rather prefer "dark" Border Collies.  Working Border Collies are not defined by their appearance, they are defined by their breeding and their work.  Here are photos of a few of my dogs over the years.

Bunks1.jpg.d184e994a89ff31e09a41455bc900f5f.jpg

1524984968_DriftbyBarb22-10-08.jpg.ea037c040bb5455552b9ac8c9a28adba.jpg

Rynn_2nd_birthday_7.thumb.jpg.46f0e6be0827f352063557e38cf99d3a.jpg

Rye 5 x 7.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...