INU Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 If you know any breeders to AVOID in Texas, can you email me off list at bcandlab-sar @ yahoo. com Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Since he wants a pet and an atypical (the non-exercise requiring BC), why not Rescue? That said, if he doesn't want to exercise and train, why exactly does he want a Border Collie again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I know ABCA breeder in Texas (I'm sure you all know them) that I'd recommend if he was going to do something with the dog. I helped train 3 pups from the breeder and they are not suitable for pets. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying in this sentence. You like this breeder but wouldn't recommend them for pet bc's? What did you help train the 3 pups to do? And why are they not suitable for pets but would make you still like them? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 This breeder breed for herding and some of the pups go to agility/SAR homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I guess he wants to know the health history of the line so he prefers to know the parents. Since he wants a pet and an atypical (the non-exercise requiring BC), why not Rescue? That said, if he doesn't want to exercise and train, why exactly does he want a Border Collie again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I guess I should have said in the message that I need names of the breeders to 'AVOID' as I stated in the title. I can't help him with a breeder for his purpose. But I could at least tell him what to avoid. That's why I didn't know what to tell him. The first thing I thought was the rescue but when he said about the health issue, I didn't know what to say to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 If as a vet, if he doesn't know that you can't guarantee anything about how a puppy will turn out...I just don't know what to say. You can buy from the best lines, with the most health testing physicaly available, you can feed the best food and manage the pup's life like a stage Mom, and you can *still* not get the puppy you wanted (physically or mentally). It's a living being, not a car. And they even get recalls on cars...so that's not much of a comparison. If he wants guarantees, and those xrays and tests mean that much to him then he need to get an adult dog that he can vet out to his heart's content before adopting. The best and most available source for adult *pet* Border Collies is Rescue. Occassionally you will find one at a breeders as well. I guess I should have said in the message that I need names of the breeders to 'AVOID' as I stated in the title. I can't help him with a breeder for his purpose. But I could at least tell him what to avoid. That's why I didn't know what to tell him. The first thing I thought was the rescue but when he said about the health issue, I didn't know what to say to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Rescue groups would let you take the dog and x-ray him before adopting? I don't see that'd be a problem for the vet as it wouldn't cost anything for him. If he wants guarantees, and those xrays and tests mean that much to him then he need to get an adult dog that he can vet out to his heart's content before adopting. The best and most available source for adult *pet* Border Collies is Rescue. Occassionally you will find one at a breeders as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Here are a small sampling (although the most visible) of "breeders" I would avoid: Buchanan Border Collies About Ewe Border Collies Texas Gems Border Collies Sunset Ridge Border Collies Rapid Fire Border Collies Centaurea Kennel Visions Border Collies Border Collies in Blanco Texas Amazing how many of them are out there, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Rescue groups would let you take the dog and x-ray him before adopting? I don't see that'd be a problem for the vet as it wouldn't cost anything for him. That would depend on the rescue. Some would allow it, some would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I just don't understand the notion that a high energy working bred dog can't make a good companion pet. I have two very nicely bred dogs from working lines. They are VERY high energy. Currently they are just a companion dogs. But they have an off and on switch. They learn very early on in life that often we do nothing but hang out or watch TV. I give them plenty of exercise and mental stimulation. But when its time for me to chill its time for them to chill. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I don't think his dog will be that active. He wants to get a puppy so that he can ask about health conditions of the parents (which I can totally understand, him being a vet and everything) If it's not going to be that "active" why does he want a puppy in the first place, muchless a Border Collie? Has he discussed this with you at all? Also, many Rescues will allow health clearances to be done. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I I give them plenty of exercise and mental stimulation. But when its time for me to chill its time for them to chill. Jennifer Jennifer, If I read INU's post correctly, the key is she doesn't think the vet would give the dog plenty of exercise and mental stimulation. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I just don't understand the notion that a high energy working bred dog can't make a good companion pet. It's because in order for a high energy dog to make a good companion pet, the owner has to be willing and able to provide the dog with appropriate outlets for both mental and physical energy and to teach the dog how to settle down during down time. I find doing this a pleasure and I find my low-energy mixes kind of boring in a way (I love them dearly, of course) and I appreciate the "always ready to go when asked" attitude of my Border Collies. But there are a lot of people - a lot - who want a good companion dog without putting in the work it takes to get that with a higher energy dog. To my way of thinking, a high energy working bred dog is likely to be the best companion there is, but I also see that for a lot of people, that same dog would be a nightmare. Dean is a case in point. His owners couldn't cope with him at all and decided correctly that it was best to rehome him. He's practically my dream dog. He would have driven most people to the point of insanity, though. After adopting and seeing him change drastically in my household, I know first hand that a high energy working bred dog raised with almost zero structure can be an extremely poor companion pet. For an owner who is willing to put in the effort that it takes to give the dog structure and good energy outlets, a high energy working bred dog is likely to be a companion like no other. At least that's been my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 All of my working dogs are also pets. It's a myth perpetuated by bad breeders that "working dogs aren't good pets" (that statement is usually followed by "but my dogs are bred for pets, and yes we take VISA") Yes they need training, yes they need exercise. But lets be frank, all dogs need that. Some dogs and breeds can tolerate less of it by nature, but tolerate is not necessarily healthy. A working dog without an off switch is either badly trained, or badly bred. All sorts of red flags are going up about this vet's request at this point. He's apparently got a few meetings with a trained BC, and based on her passing hip xrays and that he now wants a Border Collie. Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture? I hope there is more to it than that, but the fact that it's already clear he wants one of these dogs...but not one that needs any like...real exercise or training.... A color pattern, species, and normal set of hip xrays does not make a good choice of dog.... after all if you want black and white, dog, and passing hips....an OFAed Japanese Chin meets the criteria as well. (and perhaps, I daresay...better LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I'm on my way out to the vet's office now, with a list of breeders to avoid and few other tips. It was partially my assumption that he would not do anything special with his new dog. I can find out more if I see him. He recently lost a Border Collie and he said he loves BCs. Don't know much about the previous dog as I only started going to him this past summer. I do get the problem a lot. People see how calm and well-behaved dog is at PR events and they want one just like her. I have to explain to them really how much time and patience I put in the training to get here. On the list for the vet, I explained all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyGRanch Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 [ I do get the problem a lot. People see how calm and well-behaved Jazzy is at PR events and they want one just like her. I have to explain to them really how much time and patience I put in the training to get here. On the list for the vet, I explained all that. Dontcha just love that? You've got a properly bred, trained, and worked animal and everyone wants one "just like it", just like that. One lady asked me to breed Auz to her female because he was "so laid back". (Apparently she didn't notice that he was kneedeep in mud after chasing the longe whip for 2 hours in the 35 degree sloppy winter mess that IS northwest ohio, lol). I wondered why she wanted to breed dogs AGAINST what the breed was meant to be, but I lacked the energy to ask. Plus, Auz is neutered LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepandakom Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 A friend of mine once said that she wanted a laid back dog like my Barkley. She thought he was calm and low-key. He is actually a very energetic Border Collie, but I always made sure that he behaved himself when we were visiting her house. The next time we visited, I didn't say anything to him. I let him run around like a wild child, jump up, and do pretty much whatever he wanted. She never mentioned wanting to get a Border Collie again. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylebrk Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I hate to sound like a resounding gong, but it's the truth. Our BC mix is the exact same way. She let's little kids pull her tail and fur, she often lays down out of the way when company comes over, she never has to be on a leash, she listens to me as if her life depends on it, and I hear all of the time how much people want a dog just like her. They don't see her destroy the trash cans in my house when I don't spend enough time with her, they don't understand the amount of time and effort that has gone in to teaching her how to be the dog she is. I tell people all of the time that a Border Collie isn't for them. Piper (12 weeks old) is my beautiful BC pup and we are going through all of the trials right now. It's really great that my friends are seeing what they start out as. I love her to death but still have a lot of work to do. I just don't think people have the comprehension of what it takes to train a dog to be excellent, shoot, I'm not even sure I do. I just know what it took to get my dog to do what I wanted. side note: Anyone have any tips on "excited pee"? You know, little bits of potty come out when Piper gets excited. It's driving me nuts but Ic an't help but think that it's an age thing. She is only 12 weeks old. -Kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Honestly, ck bcrescue Tx... There are a few really nice dogs being fostered right now... and a youngster I've got my eye on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 side note: Anyone have any tips on "excited pee"? You know, little bits of potty come out when Piper gets excited. It's driving me nuts but Ic an't help but think that it's an age thing. She is only 12 weeks old. Just ignore it, and try to keep introductions to new, exciting things low key. My Piper is 6 years old next month and on rare occasions will still pee when she is super exctited, but for the most part she grew out of it within a few months. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I hate to sound like a resounding gong, but it's the truth. Our BC mix is the exact same way. She let's little kids pull her tail and fur, she often lays down out of the way when company comes over, she never has to be on a leash, she listens to me as if her life depends on it, and I hear all of the time how much people want a dog just like her. They don't see her destroy the trash cans in my house when I don't spend enough time with her, they don't understand the amount of time and effort that has gone in to teaching her how to be the dog she is. I tell people all of the time that a Border Collie isn't for them. Piper (12 weeks old) is my beautiful BC pup and we are going through all of the trials right now. It's really great that my friends are seeing what they start out as. I love her to death but still have a lot of work to do. I just don't think people have the comprehension of what it takes to train a dog to be excellent, shoot, I'm not even sure I do. I just know what it took to get my dog to do what I wanted. side note: Anyone have any tips on "excited pee"? You know, little bits of potty come out when Piper gets excited. It's driving me nuts but Ic an't help but think that it's an age thing. She is only 12 weeks old. -Kyle Hi Kyle, My Daisy did the excited pee thing too. I got her when she was 12 weeks old and she is now just shy of 8 months old. She very rearely does it anymore, I think she has done it once in the last month or so. I think that it is truly something that they out grow. To help curb it you can always try to be more calm when you greet her and ask others to not be overly excited too. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragtimedog Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Also with "excited pee" try to avoid looming over the pup. Sometimes that will trigger it as a defense mechanism. Lil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Tess's nickname as a pup was "Pee Pee Princess". She would pee a lake every time she saw us and roll over on her back. We solved this was not having her sit but follow us around the house so she didn't have time to stop. After a minute she would calm down and we would treat her. We didn't loom over her either. She was anxious when she saw us so we made sure we talked to her in a happy voice and kept her moving. About a yr or so, she quit peeing. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Our Aussie did that too for quite a while. Eventually she grew out of it. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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