beachdogz Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hi beachdogz, Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to let you know that I tug with my BC in Obedience class.... I still use treats for some things, but when our instructor says "release and praise your dogs" - WE TUG! We are the only ones doing it, but Binx loves it. It seems to give his brain a break - it releases some anxiety, and then he can re-focus for the next exercise. Just food for thought - Good luck! Thanks for that response, Angie. Last week was the first week I tried it in obed. class. She tugs at home, but I've not really pursued it a lot (being the anti-tug person I am/was.) So I took the tug ball to class and tried working with it. I wanted to try it because I am not getting a lot of dog attention. She loves class; is very distracted; and since I've only had her 2 1/2 months, she's really not truly bonded to me yet (but we're getting there.) She does work for food, but (here's a new one for all you border collie people)...I guess I think she's not "animated" enough...maybe not even hyper enough (I'll probably rue the day I said that ) Well, last week went well in class; she's a model student (it's an advanced beginners class) but even the tug didn't seem to turn her on. I was gonna chuck it, but then I thought "oh get real...takes more than one try to accomplish anything" so I took the tug ball again this week. So tonight when I came home, DH asked how she did. "Oh, she did GREAT!" I said "she didn't sit or down stay the whole time; she jumped around for food while heeling; and she even wanted to play tug during class." Well, now he was really confused. But perfect stays and model heeling I can shape easily...but attitude...well THAT'S everything. So this week, I am more hopeful about the tugging. It looks like it could be a very good motivator. And most importantly...we're BOTH having fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well, last week went well in class; she's a model student (it's an advanced beginners class) but even the tug didn't seem to turn her on. I was gonna chuck it, but then I thought "oh get real...takes more than one try to accomplish anything" so I took the tug ball again this week. So tonight when I came home, DH asked how she did. "Oh, she did GREAT!" I said "she didn't sit or down stay the whole time; she jumped around for food while heeling; and she even wanted to play tug during class." Well, now he was really confused. But perfect stays and model heeling I can shape easily...but attitude...well THAT'S everything. So this week, I am more hopeful about the tugging. It looks like it could be a very good motivator. And most importantly...we're BOTH having fun! Some dogs just need a bit of time to see that they're allowed to tug. A friend was telling me that her BC, Tango wouldn't tug. He would tug with the other dogs, but not her. I asked her if she had tried a tug-n-treat (a tug toy with a velcro closure that holds in treats). I got mine out and tugged with Zeb a bit near Tango where he could see, then gave her the tug to try with him. After a couple tries, he started tugging. It wasn't long before he really got into it. He just needed to see that it was ok and get bold enough to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 It's not that not tugging = not enough drive. It's that tugging can be used as a tool to build drive in specific circumstances. Say a dog does tunnels nicely, but at a moderate pace. One way to build drive is to tug as the dog comes out of the tunnel (I like to throw the toy, have the dog bring it back and then tug, but that's personal preference). When the dog starts to associate the tunnel with the game, the dog will likely start to drive through the tunnel instead of lumbering through. oh I understand that, and I agree, if the dog loves to tug, it makes a great reward and motivater. but what about the dogs that dont? when I was with a sport club I saw time and time again, people FORCING their dogs to accept the tug as the reward. the club made me do it with Misty, I HATED making her use the tug, she didnt want it! but I was a kid, and my mom was in charge. it litterally took years of work to make her accept the tug as a reward, yup she will now tug..and she will happily accept a tug as her reward, but she will still respond 100 times better to food or fetch. I just think people are TOO obbessed with tugging as a reward and motivator. find out what motivated your dog. use it. dont FORCE a motivator on your dog that he doesnt want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 oh I understand that, and I agree, if the dog loves to tug, it makes a great reward and motivater. but what about the dogs that dont? when I was with a sport club I saw time and time again, people FORCING their dogs to accept the tug as the reward. the club made me do it with Misty, I HATED making her use the tug, she didnt want it! but I was a kid, and my mom was in charge. it litterally took years of work to make her accept the tug as a reward, yup she will now tug..and she will happily accept a tug as her reward, but she will still respond 100 times better to food or fetch. I just think people are TOO obbessed with tugging as a reward and motivator. find out what motivated your dog. use it. dont FORCE a motivator on your dog that he doesnt want. How was the tug forced on the dog? I've never seen that here, so I'm having a hard time visualizing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I've never seen tug forced on a dog here, either. We are certainly encouraged to try to teach our dogs to play, but if the dog doesn't want to, it isn't an issue. That sounds like one teacher or school is really not looking to find the most appropriate motivator for each individual dog. "THE DOG MUST TUG" is certainly not an attitude that every person who does Agility holds. It can be very valuable to teach dogs to appreciate new games, but of course if the dog truly does not like something, it is not really a motivator!! I could wave a tug in front of Maddie's face until the cows come home. If there isn't a steak hanging from it, she's not likely to engage in training with more enthusiasm because of it!! I am considering using one of those new tug trainers with her. You put food inside and when the dog tugs, it actually delivers reward to the dog through the toy. I am not absolutely bent on teaching her to tug, but I am very interested in seeing the results of this particular toy on a confirmed non-tugger! I would not consider use of a toy like that, however, "forcing" her to tug. If she still doesn't want to, then so be it! If she does learn to tug, then she has a new Agility reward that might help build some new drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 by forcing I mean the people here refused the use of any other motivator for their dogs, if the dog didnt want the tug, they got nothing. people would be holding tugs running around yelling at their dogs, shoving the tugs in the dogs faces etc.. if the dog didnt take the tug, fine, it was grab collar and dog goes in crate. it drove me nuts, many of the dogs clearly didnt want the tug, but the handlers were so obbessed with the dog MUST tug mentality that they refused to consider any other option, if the dog never accepted the tug, many handlers would just figer the dog didnt enjoy the SPORT and give up, as opposed to just trying something that dog actually has an interest in lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 it drove me nuts, many of the dogs clearly didnt want the tug, but the handlers were so obbessed with the dog MUST tug mentality that they refused to consider any other option, if the dog never accepted the tug, many handlers would just figer the dog didnt enjoy the SPORT and give up, as opposed to just trying something that dog actually has an interest in lol Sounds like extreme & rigid thinking at the far end of the Tugging spectrum. I see what I consider a fair amount of "fads" in agility training. Sound like the folks you describe certainly got carried away on the "Every Dog Must Tug!" bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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