Agility comparisons

[mjk05]

Anyone care to speculate why that should be?

I think the differences originated because in Australia (and, I believe, the US) agility sort of grew out of the ranks of competitive obedience, where a titling system was already in place.

 

Why does it exist now? I think its purely a cultural thing (as in the culture of the sport), and I'm not sure why people have their knickers so knotted about it, to be honest.

 

People starting out in agility in the UK (especially with moderate speed dogs) don't expect to move up levels based on consistency, they don't expect titles as recognition- they expect big camping shows, weekends away with friends, and the occasional clear round ribbon or lower level place.

 

People in Australia expect smaller trials, and to earn titles, and in my area that's about it, because you don't get ribbons for clear rounds or places other than 1st-3rd, and those are mostly reserved for the fast dogs and top handlers.

 

The culture of the sport is just different- its not a difference between nations, because many of the same people here defending the US agility system are totally comfortable with the US working sheepdog trial system, which is based on a different culture again- where (as I understand it) only the top dogs and handlers can expect to earn tangible recognition for for their success- and the AKC Herding system of titling and awarding of mediocrity is disparaged.

 

Having watched a lot of international agility footage, and attended clinics with top handlers from other countries, I think that these days the top handlers and dogs in most countries are probably comparable, and then there's everyone else- the happy hordes of weekenders enjoying their dogs and their sports, and the rewards that keep them there are more to do with the existing culture of the sport, which defines newcomers expectations.

 

If you grow up in a system where only the very best get anything to take home (like we see in sheepdog trials), you learn to find other rewards for your efforts- bettering your previous score, making the odd final, just improving an issue you've been working on. If you grow up in a system that recognises achievements and progression (not just excellence) with titles, you expect that and enjoy it. I've grown up in a title/progression based agility system and now I'm starting out in an "minimal reward" system in sheepdog trials, and I can appreciate the benefits of both.

[pammyd]

mjk05

Nice post

I think no system is perfect - there will be flaws with everything

It is interesting to read about the different systems but I dont think we should all be jumping up and saying 'our system is better than yours cos..'

 

 

(and if your gonna have England America fights - Im in Scotland )

[kelpiegirl]

I just wanted to give Pat W and her husband their props for all they do for the agility folks. There is a well known trial not too far from me, held at a resort- which is pretty much taken over a few times a year for the agility crowd. It is an extremely fun trial- I miss that trial the most. Pat and her husband work ALL DAY LONG, running between scoring/being the gate stewards- you name it. They work very very hard. The thing I miss about agility is the sense of we are all there for the same thing- to hope our training shines in the ring with our dogs, but mainly, to enjoy the day with our compadres. I decided a LONG time ago, I have two jobs- I don't need another. If I get to the point where it's only about the titles/legs/ribbons, I stop- no matter what the endeavor. I have so many wonderful memories of people cheering me and my dogs on, and me "running alongside" my friends in the ring, praying it would go well, and then celebrating. I am beginning to finally start missing agility. Thanks mum24dogs- maybe we will get back out there...

[Diana A]

There are 5 levels:

Novice A- For people and dogs who have never competed before- same course for Novice B but judges are more lenient. You are allowed to pass with more faults. You must have an 85 or higher out of a 100 to pass. You also have less obstacle.

Novice B- For people and dogs that have competed before but haven't advance yet. Same as Novice A

Open- for intermediate dogs. You have more obstacle and must have a score of 90 or higher to pass.

Excellent A- For advance dogs. You are only allowed to have time faults. Must have a score of 95 or higher to pass.

Excellent B- For the advance advance dogs. Must have a perfect score to pass.

All dogs start the same: Novice, Open, Excellent A, Excellent B!

To get to the next level you must have 3 clean runs under the set time.

If you had a clean run under time you ALWAYS get Rosettes... If you place in the top four you also get a placement ribbon.

 

SSC

 

Judges aren't more lenient for Novice A - it should be judged exactly the same as Novice B and is the same course. The only difference is it gets it's own set of placements so there's more chance for a newbie to get a ribbon since they don't have to compete against the experienced handlers. Novice A is only until you get your first agility title.

 

All classes except Exellent B have a passing score of 85.

 

Allowed faults vary by class level. In Novice the weave poles aren't scored but must be completed (so can eat up lots of time if your dog can't weave). You can have a maxium of two refusals and a maximum of two off courses, and 1 table fault, and time faults (1 point per second). Each of these (except time faults) is 5 points off, so in total you can only have 15 points of errors before your score goes below 85 and you don't qualify. So even though 2 refusals and 2 off courses are allowed, you can't get 2 of each or your score is below 85. In Open you can only get one refusal and (I think) one off course (they changed something about how many off courses a little while back and I haven't kept track). Every second over time is 2pts off. In Exc A, time faults only (3 pts per second), and in Exc B you must be perfect.

 

The biggest classes I've seen in my area is the 20" class has been up around 100 dogs or a little over.

 

I heard overseas they don't split the walkthroughs even wtih so many in a class. It seems it would be very hard to see the course with so many people in your way. Over here most judges will split the walk throughs by height, and I've even seen 20" split into 2 groups when there 90 or more dogs (usually no more then around 40 or so in a walk through group).

[Pat W.]

KG thanks you made me blush. Its all for the love of the sport, wouldnt miss it for the world ya know. I love cheering friends on, seeing new and up coming dogs, and seniors that have a blast. Most of all I love the sport for the commraderie everywhere ya go...one big family

[Tassie]

Kelpiegirl - you could have been watching the trial I was at yesterday in the north of the state .

 

Our agility scene here in Tasmania is very small - but visiting judges always comment on the great atmosphere, sportsmanship, and the fact that everyone pitches in to help build courses, scribe, steward etc.etc. We're competitive, but also appreciative of the efforts of other competitors. I had several really nice, though unsuccessful, runs yesterday - and a couple of Qs - but was as pleased to receive compliments from other handlers on the unsuccessful nice runs as on the somewhat less nice Q runs.

 

I enjoy the process of agility - I don't know that I'd be as happy running in a really cut-throat sort of environment. I'm basically one of mjk05's happy horde of weekenders (too old to be much else ) - though 'horde' is an overstatement for Tasmania - I don't think 20-25 people is big enough for a horder is it? Oh - maybe it is in the colonies.

[kelpiegirl]

HUGE digression Tassie, but have you seen that program "The Curse of the Tasmanian Devil" aired on the NGC, regarding the Devil's Facial Tumor? It was on last night, and I was quite impressed by the work of that one woman- determining that it WAS a contageous cancer.

 

Sorry, nothing about agiity, but since you are a Tassie....

[Tassie]

Still way O/T - yes, the Devil facial tumour is a huge story here. In fact our Agility Team for the Nationals in 3 weeks is called Devil Dogs this year. There are a couple lof scary things - it seems like the tumour is mutating - but there also seems to be a line of devils who are immune. In the meantime they are setting up insurance populations in other places. A major problem is lack of genetic diversity among the Devil population, since they were cut off from the mainland after the end of the last Ice Age flooded Bass Strait - the strip of water between Tasmania and the mainland.

 

Now .... resuming normal service ..... sorry other posters