Dealing with holder anxiety

[Pippin's person]

Hamish has some anxiety with holders--it causes him to come in really tight and flat (and leads to the predictable kinds of messy lifts, sheep running, etc.). Without a holder in the picture, he outruns and lifts reasonably nicely.

 

We've been working on it by really shortening things up and some other little tricks, but I was also curious about what others have done to work on holder issues.

[stockdogranch]

Start short, and with with people/dogs he knows who are less threatening?

 

A

[Little Bo Boop]

I've heard of people actually making up a little 'set out man' ; -) like a scare crow kind of a deal. You could try that, or what I do a lot is set my sheep on or near my horse (gentle horse, won't kick sheep or dogs) and have the dogs lift the sheep off of him. It actually makes your dog think at the top, as sometimes the sheep are reluctant to leave the safety of the horse, so the dog will have to slow down and push a little harder too. Hope that helps.

 

Betty

[Laurae]

I learned that Taz isn't all that hot on picking sheep off a set-out person (especially on horseback) at a trial a few weeks ago. To work on it, I shortened up the distance on his OR, of course, but when I sent him, I also walked up the field to keep myself in the picture for him. This way, it was a little more clear to him that he still needed to bring the sheep to me, even though other people were there. I only had to walk up a few times (taking fewer and fewer steps forward) before he got the idea and settled down (less slicing and confusion at the top), but I repeated the exercise over a few sessions. By the next trial, three weeks later, he was fine. We haven't worked on it since then (it's been a little difficult getting someone else to come out with me), so I don't know if he's truly over it, so I'll probably practice it again before our next trial.

[bcnewe2]

I know this has nothing to do with the discussion except to say practice is our key.

 

Talk about making up a scare crow...One early morning I was about to go out to work dogs and my daughter walked out of her bedroom with her boyfriend who obviously unbeknownst to me had stayed the night. She was divorced but still young, back at home and we hadn't set any ground rules yet. Total city kid.

 

I was so shocked and felt so disrespected that all I could think to do was make the young man go outside with me and be the set out person while we practiced picking sheep up off him. He just smiled politely and did the job in his flipflops and shorts. I'm sure my daughter was pissed...that was what I was going for.

 

K~

[Little Bo Boop]

I was so shocked and felt so disrespected that all I could think to do was make the young man go outside with me and be the set out person while we practiced picking sheep up off him. He just smiled politely and did the job in his flipflops and shorts. I'm sure my daughter was pissed...that was what I was going for.

 

 

ROFLMAO that is funny!

[Mark Billadeau]

If he's really bad, start with someone just standing with the sheep (no dog). Also have him work sheep around a person standing in the field. Then have him do short outruns to someone calmly holding sheep (no movement or commands by the holdout person); you keep talking to him as he goes around the top. Once he's comfortable with that have the hold out person start moving around more and eventually waving his stick.

 

Mark

[Pippin's person]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Very helpful and we'll do many of these on our next sessions. My trainer and I had talked about having him work around a friendly face just standing in the field--so we'll probably start there.

 

I know someone who worked very successfully with the "scarecrow" with their own dog, but I hadn't thought about it with Hamish. Unfortunately, no wayward sleep-overs to use as a scarecrow.

 

It seems like he's gotten a little bit worse this summer than he was--might have to do with starting to learn to drive.

[Shoofly]

I've had people stand out in the field and be the "panels" for some dogs to work around.

[kelpiegirl]

It's also important, that whomever is out there with you not look at the dog, or make sudden moves, until the dog is used to pulling off someone. Also, if they are setting out and have to raise their voice to their dogs- that can mess the working dog up. Basically, anyone who has been doing this a long time would be best

[Lenajo]

Lots of good advice given.

 

I can only add from hard experience to *never* let the set out person be the correcter or interfere with your dog even if its an easy way to train something (i.e. let them "help" widen your dog out at the top). I would even go as far as have the helper progressively stronger and louder interact with their own dog during your training so your dog learns that no matter how loud, or how weird, the set out person acts it *has nothing to do with them*.

[TotallyTerry]

Lots of good advice given.

 

I can only add from hard experience to *never* let the set out person be the correcter or interfere with your dog even if its an easy way to train something (i.e. let them "help" widen your dog out at the top). I would even go as far as have the helper progressively stronger and louder interact with their own dog during your training so your dog learns that no matter how loud, or how weird, the set out person acts it *has nothing to do with them*.

[TotallyTerry]

Like Robin, I had a young dog that was leery of spotters initially. Used quiet people as panels and worked him in figure eights around them.

 

On the opposite side of the coin, I was always "fortunate" because the two female handlers that I worked with were well known and excellent spotters. Sheep were always set perfect. They and their dog were in a perfect place. Went to a trial and met up with a stick swinging spotter screaming at their dogs to lie down... that stood in front of the sheep! Freaked my dogs out a bit. The next month, a couple of great spotters acted like idiots to desensitize my young dogs to whatever kind of spotter that they drew.

[Pippin's person]

Yesterday we did the first installment of working out Hamish's holder issues. We started the session by having him do some outruns without a holder so he could warm up and relax some--that actually went well and, even with lifting the sheep out of a tight corner, he was very relaxed, calm, collected and wide--and that can be a little hit and miss with him.

 

Then, we used two people as panels and worked figure eights and some other tasks. On one of the passes, I lied him down next to grenzehund and her job was to stand over him and walk around him. Then, I asked him to walk up toward the sheep, and she walked a few steps with him. On the first go, he looked at her with an expression that could only be parsed as, "Hey, whattr you doin'? This is *my* job." It was pretty funny. By the end, he didn't mind having either person walk around him or straddle him (though he was clearly not all that comfortable, he stayed down until asked up).

 

Overall, it was a good session and I felt pretty relaxed as well (not always the case with me and him and something I'm working to get a handle on as well).

 

Thanks again for the various suggestions.