Hip Dysplasia

[JaderBug]

Jade and I went to another herding lesson this evening. She's 8 months old and she did very well... started working on 'lie down' with the sheep tonight and I was absolutely amazed at how FAST she layed down!!! She was doing wonderfully with getting out and around the sheep, and I think is starting to learn "away to me", mostly because I think that's the direction she prefers. She does great going in between the sheep and the fence, and doesn't have any problems standing up to a ewe.

 

I should be very excited about her progress she's making, but unfortunately I've left the lesson more devastated than anything. My herding trainer seems to think that Jade may have hip dysplasia. Jade has been taking lessons for a couple of months now, and James said tonight that he has noticed some tenderness or lameness in her left hip for a while now, he was hesitant to say anything because he thought perhaps she was just going through a growth spurt, but she's been favoring the same hip for a couple of months now. I've also noticed with obedience that she sits flopped over on one hip, which I acquainted to being a lazy, sloppy puppy sit, but her 'lie down' is also flopped over on one side. She doesn't show any favoring when she's in with the sheep, either.

 

I am absolutely crushed. I know there's other things it could be and I don't think (from what little research I've done so far, planning on doing a lot more tomorrow) we can know for sure if it's hip dysplasia until she's 18 or 24 months old. I never noticed it before, I couldn't ever tell that she was limping in any way outside of the weird sitting/laying down- I only noticed it once James pointed it out to me when she was playing with one of his dogs.

 

What do I do? do I get her to a vet? What are some resources I can look into? Needless to say I will be e-mailing the breeder tomorrow- we've gotten several dogs from this breeder and none have been dysplasic or arthritic so I didn't imagine there would ever be any problem with Jade. Is anyone else dealing with dysplasia? What else might it be? If it is dysplasia, can she continue herding? Can she do any activity? How long will it take for the real symptoms to set in?

 

I think I need some board mojo too, hope and pray that it isn't dysplasia...

[Tranquilis]

Absolutely talk to your vet, and see if you should get some pictures taken. At 8 months, I don't think she's done growing, so what may seem to be bad news, now, isn't final yet.

 

Here is a list of online resources you may wish to take a look at.

[herdcentral]

I understand exactly how you are feeling. My pup is 6 months old and I have to wait for another 2 months after initial inconclusive CT scans to do a second set of scans for a possible elbow dysplasia diagnosis, which for a would be agility dog is absolutely career ending before it started. It is a crushing feeling.

 

When it comes to lameness, I dont mess around I go straight to an orthapaedic specialist. Their knowledge and diagnostic skill and equipment is superior to general practice vets. I have learned this the hard way with several incorrect diagnoses with other dogs that were picked up instantly by a specialist.

 

I think there is a better chance with hips than elbows to get a dog back to working if that indeed is what it is. I know a couple with mildly dysplastic hips that are working. They are kept lean and fit and have regular supplements. I also think that surgery can quite often get them back to working if the hips are really bad.

 

Anyway good luck and I wouldnt try and guess what the problem is, it just causes to much anxiety, I would find a good specialist who can make a proper assessment of your dog.

[MaggieDog]

I had my pup xrayed at 6mo to check hips - it's not definitive by any means but a good vet can pick out any obvious problems developing even at that age. PennHip is supposed to be accurate from something like 16 weeks of age on.

[juliepoudrier]

Rachel,

Go ahead and have her looked at by a vet. It could be so many things, and she is quite young. It wouldn't hurt to put her up for a while either (i.e,, no stock work or other strenuous activities that are hard on young, growing joints)--she's quite young for that as well and you won't really "lose time" if you give her a few months off. It's entirely possible that she's just overdoing it on growing joints (especially if she's a typical youngster around stock and doing everything at warp speed), and it seems to me that at one point some years ago during a discussion on CHD mention was made of the possibility (conjecture in the veterinary community--I don't think there was definitive proof, but I don't remember now) of too much, too young actually "flattening" the hip sockets, thereby exacerbating a problem. Good mojo coming your way....

 

J.

[Debbie Meier]

For sure get your appointment with a vet and get a professional opionion, I don't see how James can give you a diagnosis when even a vet may not be able to, so don't panic yet. Since there is a possibility that you will not get a definate diagnosis until she is older, if she was mine I would turn her into a science project. I would be looking at putting her on crate rest for a week or as long as it takes for the lameness to subside. When she is out of the crate hand walk her and keep her as calm as possible, then work her back up to normal activity watching to see if the lameness changes. Watch for change, first does it go away after the rest period, how fast does it come back, if it does, what did she do that triggered it.

 

I would also probe the hip for pain and discomfort, get to know everything about her condition so you will be able to recognize if something changes, and document everything, kinda like a case study.

 

Going through this process will also help you realize if what you are doing is helping, many people will follow the vets directions to rest the dog for 2 weeks or whatever time period and never really recognize whether the rest worked, they then let the dog out to play full tilt and end up exasperating the problem and don't understand why the dog is lame again. Personally I prefer to try to handle the begining of rehabilitation as I explained above. Since this is not a new injury IMO, I would not put her on pain meds, pain meds allow the dog to appear sound when the injury is still existent, causing more injury. It is the same process I follow when one of our horses are lame, utilizing this same protocal on our horses have allowed healing in places the vets said would not heal, my one mare was diagnosed navicular via x-rays at the age of 3, by the age of 4 her x-rays were clean, so time can heal if we give it a chance. It may not in this case but I don't see how going through the steps I suggested would hurt anything and you can learn a bunch from this expirence.

 

Deb

[2 Devils]

The vets can take xrays and give you an idea if there is a problem, if there is likely going to be a problem or if it may be soft tissue if nothing shows up on xray.

 

My bc has a weird hip and has from the time she was a pup. When I had her spayed they took xrays of the hips. Her right hip looked great and her left looked ok even though the groove was not as deep as in the right hip. The vets they do not believe that was causing any of her weird movements. I do need to take her back now that she is full grown and have the hips redone just for my piece of mind. HD is not the end of the world. Many dogs can go on and do just about anything any other dog can do. You just may have to take more precautions to not overdo it.

[juliepoudrier]

HD is not the end of the world. Many dogs can go on and do just about anything any other dog can do. You just may have to take more precautions to not overdo it.

Great point! I have a retired working dog who was a successful open trial dog and who has very bad hips. She was well muscled from the work and the muscles provided stability for the hips. As Kim says, a bad hip doesn't necessarily mean the dog can't do what you want it to do.

 

J.

[JaderBug]

I will try and get her into a vet ASAP to get some x-rays done.

 

Deb-

I should have been a little clearer- James only said that it's something I need to keep an eye on and that she only looked a little dysplasic. Essentially he said he didn't know for sure and that I wouldn't know 100% until she was older, but that it's something I needed to watch. The 'science project' sounds like a good idea, only problem is I couldn't really see any lameness to begin with so I'm not sure I could see it afterwords. The only thing that seemed a little off to me was the way she sits and lays down on one hip. She doesn't even do that all the time... when she's expecting a treat of some sort, she sits and lies down perfectly, although I know that's not tell-tale or anything.

 

I probably shouldn't play this game, but what else could it be?

 

PS Deb- I'm planning on coming up to your corn roast on Sunday, it'll be nice to finally meet you

[2 Devils]

Good point about muscle. Having strong muscles help keep the hip in place. The same goes for knee problems. You build up the muscle around the effected joint which hepls relieve some of the actual pressure on the joint.

 

Case in point: My toy poodle has luxating patellas. When I got him at 5 months of age, the vets considered him Grade 2 and he was a baby. Since I refused to baby him and made him do everything on his feet (read not picking up and carrying), plus he played a lot, I did some muscle building exercises, when we took him back to the vets they were amazed. He went from luxating patellas Grade 2 on verge of Grade 3 to having what is considered weak knees. His knees no longer luxated easily. The muscle around his knees are strong and built up. We were told no sports for him - he plays flyball without adverse effects.

 

I knew a lady who has a field golden. This dog has SEVERE HD in both hips. This dog also had knee surgery when he was 1 yrs old. The owner kept him very lean, played with him constantly and made sure the muscle in the hip area was as strong as possible. This dog played flyball for many, many years and was a pretty darn fast golden. When he had muscle weakness in his hips, you could see the hips popping out as he walked that was how severe his was...

 

If you can, get xrays, see an ortho vet and if possible take the dog swimming.

[JaderBug]

Good point about muscle. Having strong muscles help keep the hip in place. The same goes for knee problems. You build up the muscle around the effected joint which hepls relieve some of the actual pressure on the joint...

 

...If you can, get xrays, see an ortho vet and if possible take the dog swimming.

 

How do you build their muscle up? What sort of exercises helps with that? If I take her swimming, does it have to be in one of those doggy chambers at like the vet school, or can I take her to a lake/pond/creek? I was planning on getting her somewhere to teach her to swim anyway...

[Debbie Meier]

PS Deb- I'm planning on coming up to your corn roast on Sunday, it'll be nice to finally meet you

 

 

Your welcome to come over Sunday, Mary is going to be here working and maybe others, but the party is on Saturday!!!

 

You don't want to miss the party...

 

BTW, if you want to play I'll let you adopt Bandit for the day, he's a rescue dog that is here, he's a lot of fun on stock, no interest in gripping or getting in trouble, has a lot of eye and wants to please you. He will work for anyone, and works sheep, goats and ducks. His down fall is that he does not bite as he was rolled multiple times the other day by a ram lamb that he was nose to nose with, he just got up and tried to eye him into moving again, eventually he was able to back him out of the pen, the dog does not give up. After a few rolls he tried to bite, just gummed the lambs ear, the ram was not impressed (lol)

 

Here are some pictures I took of him when I first started him: waynescustomleather.com/bandit.htm

 

Deb

[juliepoudrier]

Rachel,

Swimming is wonderful exercise because you can work the muscles/joints without any weight bearing. A pond, large stock tank, pool, or anywhere she can swim regularly is fine. Mine used to do a lot of swimming in the Chesapeake Bay or a farm pond. The nice thing about Jill is that she loves to swim, so at the beach all I had to do was get her out there and then I could walk back and forth on the beach while she swam parallel to me out in the water. In ponds, she will just swim around till you call her out, so she was very easy. When I took her for rehab after an injury, we did use an Endless Pool (pool with a current), but in between visits to the rehab specialist, I swam her in the bay. (Note that part of the reason for swimming Jill was that in the accident she dislocated a hip and apparently at least partially tore her ACL, so we had to come up with a physical therapy regimen that would allow me to keep her hip muscles well worked without putting strain on her knees. Swimming was just one part of that.)

 

Also, if you don't have access to ponds or the like, you can get a stock tank (120 gallon) and teach her to swim in place while you support her with a harness or something similar. Thay would be less fun for her, but would certainly work in a pinch. For a dog who isn't enamored of swimming, I would probably end up with the stock tank method, since it could be controlled more easily. I was lucky with Jill in that she was a quite willing swimmer and the greatest difficulty was getting her out of the water!

 

Before starting any sort of exercise program like that, though, it's best to get a vet's evaluation first. In Jill's case if she happened to be a dog who hyperextended her knee while swimming then we wouldn't have been able to let her swim, since we were trying to let the partial tear heal. If Jade has something else (rather than HD) going on, you'd want to know what you're actually dealing with before devising a rehab plan. In some cases, if it's just a soft tissue injury, strict crate rest, followed by a slow and careful return to activity is all that's needed. That's why you should see a vet first.

 

J.

[JaderBug]

Your welcome to come over Sunday, Mary is going to be here working and maybe others, but the party is on Saturday!!!

 

You don't want to miss the party...

 

BTW, if you want to play I'll let you adopt Bandit for the day, he's a rescue dog that is here, he's a lot of fun on stock, no interest in gripping or getting in trouble, has a lot of eye and wants to please you. He will work for anyone, and works sheep, goats and ducks. His down fall is that he does not bite as he was rolled multiple times the other day by a ram lamb that he was nose to nose with, he just got up and tried to eye him into moving again, eventually he was able to back him out of the pen, the dog does not give up. After a few rolls he tried to bite, just gummed the lambs ear, the ram was not impressed (lol)

 

Here are some pictures I took of him when I first started him: waynescustomleather.com/bandit.htm

 

Deb

 

Can I bring Jade up? I probably won't work her, I just thought it'd be a good socializing experience for her.

 

If anyone can give me some (a lot!) direction, I can try and work Bandit, but Lord knows I don't know what I'm doing!! He sure is pretty! Already having a party on Saturday... my boyfriend turned 21 today (uh oh!!! ) having a b-day grill-out in Ames for him. Should be fun, but I'm looking forward to Sunday as well!

[Root Beer]

I second those who have said to go to the vet.

 

Another thing you might consider, if there is one in your area, is an ortho specialist vet. I took Speedy to an ortho vet because I wasn't happy with the diagnosis I got from his regular vet (Lyme disease in spite of many negative tests and a titre). The ortho vet x-rayed him and a correct diagnosis was made which was spondylosis and bursitis.

 

If it turns out to be hip dysplasia, there are a lot of treatment options.

 

Having a dog with a chornic condition like that is heartbreaking, especially when it manifests itself when the dog is young. But it's not the end of everything, either.

 

Like others have said, once you have a diagnosis and appropriate treatment, there are exercises that you can have your dog do to build up muscle and keep joints moving. Freestyle moves (even if you do them for fitness, not "dance") are fantastic for this. Swimming is also good, and you don't have to use a specific "dog pool" if you have access to a creek or lake or something. Moderately paced leash walks are fantastic for keeping a dog with a joint condition mobile.

 

I hired someone to teach me some therapeutic massage and accupressure and that also helps him a lot.

 

Supplements can be a huge help, too!

[Debbie Meier]

Can I bring Jade up? I probably won't work her, I just thought it'd be a good socializing experience for her.

 

If anyone can give me some (a lot!) direction, I can try and work Bandit, but Lord knows I don't know what I'm doing!! He sure is pretty! Already having a party on Saturday... my boyfriend turned 21 today (uh oh!!! ) having a b-day grill-out in Ames for him. Should be fun, but I'm looking forward to Sunday as well!

 

 

You certainly can bring Jade up, as I mentioned, I don't know how many people will be here Sunday, there are some people talking about coming up on Friday also.

 

I'll be glad to help you with Bandit, he's pretty easy to get along with, sorta knows his directions, knows a walk up, drives and fetches. Worse case you just tell him to lie down until you figure out where you are going and then show him where you want him, it does not stress him out to make him wait on you like it does with high drive dogs, he's on the low drive side but still has good balance and reads the stock well.

 

Deb

[Mark Billadeau]

In addition to having your vet take radiographs of your dog; I highly recommend you have your vet send the radiographs to Cornell for evaluation by their radiologists. These people have vast experience reading radiographs (including extensive work with Border Collies) and will see things your vet may miss or misread.

 

Info for Cornell hip consult

 

Mark

[urge to herd]

I can only support heartily what the others have said: Get a specialist's opinion and restrict her physical activity until you know more.

 

For your own peace of mind, don't try and figure out all the what if's. At this stage, with no solid information, you'll only be spinning your wheels. It's hard to do that, I speak from many years of experience as a World Class Worrier, but I found all it did was wear me out emotionally.

 

Good luck with Jade, let us know how she does.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[JaderBug]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions... I'm trying to get her lined up with a vet to get some x-rays done- I'm not sure if her regular vet has x-ray capabilities or not, so I may be finding a different one. On the plus side, I live right next to Iowa State University's Veterinary Medicine College, and I'm sure I'll be able to find a specialist there.

 

I e-mailed her breeder as well to find out if any of her parents, grandparents, littermates, or older full-siblings have had any record of CHD, hopefully I hear back from him soon. I just posted her pedigree under 'General Topics' (link). I'll keep everyone posted on how she's doing and what I find out!!

[laurie etc]

In addition to having your vet take radiographs of your dog; I highly recommend you have your vet send the radiographs to Cornell for evaluation by their radiologists.

Info for Cornell hip consult

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark - A friend wants to send hip xrays in to Cornell for a reading, but the link to Cornell at the end of the previous thread (above) is no good. Any idea how much the consult is now, and the mailing address to send them to?

Laurie

[herdcentral]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions... I'm trying to get her lined up with a vet to get some x-rays done- I'm not sure if her regular vet has x-ray capabilities or not, so I may be finding a different one. On the plus side, I live right next to Iowa State University's Veterinary Medicine College, and I'm sure I'll be able to find a specialist there.

 

You would be better off getting her x -rayed by an orthovet first off. Their x-ray equipment is usually top quality and very clear and they are very good at positioning the dog for the best views. If you have them taken by your general vet and you are referred to an ortho, they will usually want to do the xrays again their way which will be more expense for you.

[Mark Billadeau]

Hi Mark - A friend wants to send hip xrays in to Cornell for a reading, but the link to Cornell at the end of the previous thread (above) is no good. Any idea how much the consult is now, and the mailing address to send them to?

Laurie

Laurie,

 

I did find the new website for the Veterinary Imaging Section; however, it does not list fees or a new address. I would assume the address is correct. You could call the Companion Animal Hospital to confirm the fees and how to send the radiograph.

 

Mark

[laurie etc]

Laurie,

 

I did find the new website for the Veterinary Imaging Section; however, it does not list fees or a new address. I would assume the address is correct. You could call the Companion Animal Hospital to confirm the fees and how to send the radiograph.

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark!

I found that website too, and finally called this morning. After listening to about 10 Automated Voice Messages,punching option codes, and getting disconnected twice; I finally reached a "human" in customer billing.

 

For anyone interested, she told me that the current fee for reading Hip Xrays is $50 (check made out to Cornell University); and to send the xrays to the following address:

 

Cornell University VMTH

Box 36

Campus Road

Ithaca NY 14853

[Tranquilis]

Excellent work - Thank you!

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks for going through the trouble and sharing with the rest of us Laurie. I remember going to their site some time ago and being frustrated by the lack of information....

 

J.