RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Hi guys have only jsut signed up, and the reason might be given away by the name! (skip the middle rant if you just wanna answer the questions ) in the middle of october me and my partner were shopping at tescos and found a pretty mangy, very underweight but very bloated (pups or worms we assumed) gorgeous border collie who proceeded to follow us home. As we neared our house (about 2 mile walk) we figured we couldnt just close our door on her, so took her in. We took her to the vets the next day who said she was healthy bar being malnutritioned. She quickly seemed to adopt to us as owners and we quickly grew attatched (naming her gypsy) which was just as well as she had pups 3 days later. A week after the pups were born a farmer claimed us. He is a 'traditional' sheep farmer, who speaks only welsh, and is 86. He hadnt been aware of the pregnancy and didnt want the pups, offering to drown them for us. We convinced him to take them with him, allowing gypsy access to them at least at night (he wanted her working straight away) and we promised to look after them. They are now just over 4 weeks old, and seem healthy, but they are constantly wet and dirty (farmer puts wet food in their basket with them, and gypsy keeps coming home from working in the rain soaked we assume.) We are also not allowed to access the pups before 9am and after 4pm - which is difficult with both of us working (he doesnt want us upsetting gypsy and his relationship). When we go up we change bedding and give them warm lactol and leave a new stock of puppy food, i was just curious: At what age are the benefits of still being with mum outweighed by being wet and cold in an open fronted stone shed, (they are out of any direct rain or wind when in the basket) which they are now attempting to scamper around... i.e when should we take them?? Secondly we are planning on keeping one, me and my partner are very active and both run at least once a day (me in morning and her at night due to preference and shifts) so pup/dog will be well exercised, and will get plenty of attention due to overlapping shifts. and we were wondering what sort of traits you can spot in a collie, if any at a young age. And i have heard that a collies intelligence can be seen from how dark the roof of its mouth is??? (I am keen to train it in frisbee/flyball etc if possible) have always owned at least one dog up until last year but never a BC. See my bottom post for pictures of the pups... wetness etc. Any feed back is much appreciated. Cheers Jason and Nadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 oh yeah and would also be very greatful to all tips for house training/general training of collie pups, (have heard they are a massive handfull from 6-12mnths.] Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lance Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 This is a great board for Border Collie information. I have learned much from the people here in the year that I have had my border collie. I'm sure you will get muck information from many here. You guys were great for taking in gypsy. Wish the farmer didn't take her back. At least you will get one of the pups. Hope your able to find homes for the others. I have really fallen in love with the breed. I take it you live in Great Britain from your post. What part? I am in the USA. East coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lance Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 sorry muck was meant to be much. "I'm sure you will get muck information from many here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Jason, Good for you for trying to take care of those pups. I will let those with plenty more experience to advise you on the benefits/dangers of taking the pups away from their mom at 4 months, but my take on it is to go ahead and rescue the pups, before they become ill or wander away while their mom is working. About the roof of the mouth, that's balloney. When I was growing up, there was an urban myth that the darker the roof of the mouth, the meaner, aggressive the dog. Totaly crazy. Never heard about the "link" to the animal's IQ, but that's crazy, too. House training is very easy with such an intelligent breed, is keeping your house in one piece as they grow, that's the challenging part Good luck and stick arround for a miriad of useful information and advice! Anda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 cheers guys. And am currently living in northwest wales, although am from england originally!! Yeah i wasnt so sure bout the dark mouth thning either!! i would like to put a photo of gypsy as you guys have done...but how do i link it to a URL? do i have to have my own webpage?? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra s. Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 You could put them on photobucket , it's good and totally free. I've never had a young pup so I have no advice for you, but thanks for rescueing them, and welcome to the boards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 You can host a photo on several different sites, then use the IMAGE button (while in a full-form reply) to post it here. Try uploading your photo to here: www.photobucket.com Hope to see pics soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Thanks Betsy!! easier than i thought!! avatar is the mum after 2 weeks of good eating/grooming and having pups (day she went back to farm - i know they love to work but she was still mine!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 ok...now i understand! Wet pup in dirty barn - i hate the way they are living, but they seem attentive etc, and working dogs are meant to be tough.... luckily it hasnt got too cold here yet! Playing in there new hay - although it seemed like fightin to me!!! (but anything to keep warm This is the runt..... and my favourite!!! Runt as her tail constantly wags..... and she is just so interested!!! bet i have bored all of ya! sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 You're great to be doing all that you are for these pups! Might there be any way to take some (or all) of the other pups and work with a border collie rescue group to place them in good homes? I expect you'll hear some heartfelt insistence that any pups not left with their dam until eight weeks will have temperament issues, never be good with other dogs, etc. I disagree. I brought my first border collie home at five weeks and a few days, and she was the best-natured, most temperamentally sound sheepdog I've ever known. Factors that helped: her sire and dam were working dogs with good temperaments, she was around other healthy, well-behaved dogs throughout her puppyhood, and she was socialized like mad. When she was tiny, for instance, I'd slip her under my jacket and take her into stores and such. It sounds like the dam, "Gypsy," has a great temperament, which of course is a huge influence on the pups. And no matter what age the pups are when you take them home, keep in mind that socialization (article from a quick Google search) is more essential than ever. As far as choosing a pup... it all boils down to personal preference. I have a weakness for the hell-raisers, myself But others suggest taking an "in between" pup --- not the one that seems timid, not the boldest one in the litter, but a pup with a nice, middle-of-the-road personality. This may be the best approach if you've never had a border collie before. Good luck, and good on you both for helping "Gypsy" and her pups. Please keep us updated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Jason, the pups are gorgeous! Please try to save them away from a wet and cold place! And their mom (in your avatar), has such a stunning pattern! P.S. If you paste the URL in the Image button instead of the URL, the pictures will show directly in the thread instead of being a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 You are very wonderful to do all you can for the mom and her sweet little babies. I know how hard it can be when you want so badly to do something for an animal but your hands are tied or your way is barred due to laws. It can be very frustrating. I go through that alot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 We dont want to push the farmer too hard, as he can just turn around and tell us where to go.... we have 5 of the 6 pups homes, all of which are with active people who we know. We are also willing to put in the extra time to look after them earlier than 8weeks.. as long as we know its the right thing - they were actually orangy last week from when they were crawling through their food........ gypsy (patch is her real name) i prefer gypsy/gyps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I would go with the 5 week and a few days mark if you are really afraid for their welfare. At that age they can eat on their own. It's so kind of you to take care of them and to help find them homes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Aww. Such cute pups!! I hope you can find them good homes. Glad to hear nearly all of them are spoken for! (have heard they are a massive handfull from 6-12mnths.] Actually, my two (3 years and 2 years) are STILL massive handfuls. But with such intelligent dogs, it is not hard to teach them what you want, and housetraining my two was very easy. I think it is generally recommended to wait until a pup is 6-8 weeks old to take it away from the litter. Puppies learn a lot from each other, and from their mom, but if you can keep the puppies together (even if you have them without mom around) until they are 8 weeks old, that would probably be the best. For housetraining, I highly recommended this article: http://www.bcrescue.org/housebreaking.html That covers all the information you need to know and it is a very quick read! Both my dogs go potty on command and I must say it is a very handy thing, especially when it is pouring rain out! Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Video of the pups..... if anyone who is up on pup health, could u look at the photos and this video, and if you can see any obvious signs of illness that i have missed, would be great to know... Video of Pups...put sound up loud!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
books Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Although it is very hard to really tell through a video, the pups appear to be nice and healthy. They are all moving around and look bright eyed. I would just keep an eye on them. If any of them start to get an occular or nasal discharge, or if they are lethargic, its time to get them out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Brett Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 What cute little babies! I love the tiny toes in the first picture. And thank you for taking such good care of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 lol, you guys are making our heads swell, although no need to thank... its a talent that small/baby creatures seem to have - especially pups.. they grab your heart strings straight away - so didnt really have a choice! Will check them over as we are going up in the morning! cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Oh, they're adorable in the video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Oh, they're so cute! Thank you for taking care of them, and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouBC Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I'd recommend leaving them with mom until they're at least 5 weeks old if at all possible. However, if they're not already escaping from that basket, it's literally probably only a matter of days. So if you think that's going to cause problems with the farmer, go ahead and take them. You can start 4-5 week old pups on a good soft mash of puppy food. I just went through this with a pup that came to me at 5 weeks, so it's really pretty easy if they're interested in the food (which it sounds like they are). It's always ideal to leave them with mom until they're 8 weeks old, but sometimes other conditions make this too dangerous. Considering the farmer's behavior, I just don't see him being tolerant of a bunch of 7-8 week old pups roaming around, and by that age they're going to be very mobile. And with mom gone during the day, there's a definite potential for them to get lost or injured roaming around on their own between now and then. The big thing I'd recommend is that you keep the litter together until they're 8 weeks old. Between 5 and 8 weeks is when puppies learn a lot in how they interact with other dogs, so if it's possible to keep them together, that can go a LONG way towards helping socialization. You'll also want to be careful while introducing new things to them since you can create fears at different points of their development. If you search online for puppy care, you'll find plenty of websites to detail how to care for the young puppies and different mixes that you can use for puppy food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon M Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Cute pups! makes me want another one! I really wish I could have one too but I dont think my roomates would appreciate it much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted November 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 The farmer has been leaving premium dog food well within their reach since the they have been their, this is the mothers food and there is nothing we can do about it. they are bloated/fat am not sure which - possibly because of the food being rich? have tried telling the farmer but he thinks we are being soft... he was the same about worming them (had to do it in secret) but i think they are pretty much dependent on solid food now as gypsy no lkonger seens to be producing much milk........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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