Ooky Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hi all, I am a first time dog owner who recently got an 11 1/2 week-old border collie. Already Odin is the light of my life. However, the general tone of people I know (at work, in-laws, etc) is one of, "you have NO idea what you've just gotten yourself into." Everyone has a story of a BC they knew that bit someone or ran away or tore all the siding off the house. (None of these people have a BC, BTW). I would be a bit nervous with my first dog anyway, but this is starting to make me really want to hear from people who have great experiences with their BCs. That's why I'm here - I know I need help! To give a little background, I am not a first time pet owner, little Odin is just my first dog. I have had wonderful cats and in a way Odin 'replaces' my cat Mesto that died about a year ago. Mesto was an extremely smart, quirky, difficult, loving guy that was my partner in life for 14 years. I now live with my husband's cats, who are "difficult" breeds in their own right - an Ocicat and a Bengal, both adult "unadoptable" rescues. While they they are both strongly and primarily bonded to my husband, I love them dearly and have come to appreciate the quality they have of being so smart and crazy that they are just not like normal cats! In fact, I've started to feel that any future regular-style cats we have would just be too boring, even though these guys sometimes can definitely drive you up the wall. That's one of the reasons I picked a border collie - they seem like the ocicat of dogs. I have waited a really long time to get a dog and could not be more excited. We live in a house with a smallish yard but I plan to do obedience, agility, maybe rally-o, and lots of dog park and hiking time. Of course we will be enrolling in lots of training classes, I've already picked out several I want to take him to. He is way too young now, but as I am an ecologist and work on lots of open space and ranch sites, I will even be able to take him to work with me. There are cows I have let slip past me when moving my truck through a gate on my own - I have a feeling he'd be happy to help! Right now we have only been together a few days but he seems so bonded with me already and also he already knows sit, watch-me, touch (my palm, his nose), and we are getting pretty good at lay down just today. He freely offers sit-watchme when I correct him or love on him, or tries when he is super excited! He is not too great on the leash yet but my neighborhood is a distracting, semi-urban one and he came from a working farm so given the circumstances he is doing great - will even sit for me before crossing every street. I am sure I will have tons of questions over the next year(s)...You guys seem like such a great source of knowledge. My first question is, what treats do you feed during training sessions, and how can I know whether he is filling up too much on treats that might not have all his required nutrients? We do about 2-4 approx. 5 minute clicker training sessions a day right now, but I have also been giving him small morsels to encourage leash manners, go in his crate, bath and grooming, etc. What's the best for him and how do I know when too much is too much? --ooky +Odin, Dr. Benway, and Lobo ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leap-Year-Dog Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Hello! Welcome. It sounds like Odin found a good home with you I too am a first time border collie owner (and my girl is only 14 1/2 weeks at the moment) so I'm not sure how much advice I can offer, yet. As for the treat question - when I first got her I bought a variety of doggy treats from the pet store. I mainly got very small, bite-sized treats and if I did get a bigger sized treat I would break it up into very small pieces. I used those for a while before I moved onto more distracting environments, like outside, where I discovered she wasn't very interested in them anymore. The environment was way more rewarding. So then I tried a few small pieces of turkey and ham from the lunch meat I was using to make my sandwiches that week (heh) and she LOVED that but since then I haven't bought anymore lunch meat for a while so the special treats I've been using at the moment are very small pieces of cheddar cheese and freeze dried liver. I'm also still using her normal kibble and the original doggy treats I bought. I usually just combine them all into one bag and work from that - so she doesn't know what she's getting next. She always seems a little disappointed when she gets a piece of her normal dog food though, lol. The one thing about using cheese, for example, is that there's a possibility it may disagree with him. I never had a problem with it. Oddly, though, I dropped a Cheez-It by accident in my car the other day and River got it and almost immediately after eating it she vomited. So cheeze-its obviously don't agree with her. For me, finding tempting treats is getting tougher and tougher though because River not very food motivated at all. Inside she'll do anything for a piece of cheese but outside she doesn't really mind not getting the cheese, lol. Also, about filling up on the treats: Considering River is not very food motivated/not much of an eater I've never had a problem with her not finishing her normal kibble for the day (so I know she's getting the nutrients she needs) even with giving her small amounts of treats all day long and the extra treats hasn't caused her to become overweight or anything of that sort, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Hey There! Welcome! When I first got Daisy, well, even now and I tell people I have a BC the usual response is "You have a what?! You're crazy!" Maybe I am, living smack dab in the middle of the city, but she gets me out of the house and gets me doing some really fun stuff. Don't let them (those people) get you down. If you keep them mentally and physically active, they will do fine in almost any environment! For training, we usually use bits of roll-over type stuff by natural balance, cut into small pieces about the size of my pinky finger nail, for really hard things or in very distracting environments, I've had to break out the "goods"! We've used bits of browned beef, chicken but of all things her fav. would be hotdogs. Cheese is also good, but we do have to watch how much we give her because she can't handle too much dairy. I don't really think that you have to worry too much about when it comes to filling up. If you keep the training short and sweet, 3-5 minutes and the treats small they should still eat their regular meals. If you find he is getting a bit too many treats, you can cut back on the food at feeding times, or use a portion of one of his meals for training so that it will all balance out, that is if he will accept the "regular food" during training! Good Luck! julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 You sound like a great BC owner. Don't let people scare you. With exercise and some kind of job, it can be tricks, obedience, frisbee, whatever........ you will have a happy dog. I don't treat much. Mine usually work for praise, sometimes I even use pieces of their dog food for treats. It seems they are happy with ANY reward. Border collies are smart, eager to please and if they aren't well structured they will find a job of their own, which is usually NOT a good job (digging, barking, etc...) that's where the horror stories come from. Your plans sound like good active plans, so your dog, BTW has the most soulful eyes- will do just great. Welcome to the boards. You'll get some great advice here. Some people do obedience, agility, flyball and most herd. If you are truly addicted, it's going to cost you- LOL. A farm, a pick-up, few dozen sheep, a camper for sheepdog trials. Your journey has just begun. Dianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillalove Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 You sound like you're doing an incredible job! Good for you. I think many people assume that if you don't have sheep, you can't have a Border Collie or else they bite your children, destroy your house, etc etc. While many people successfully keep BC's in the city and still have their children and house intact, the key is devoting time to stimulate him and exercise him, and you'll have a lovely, happy companion. They really just want to be included in everything that you do, so it would be great if you could bring him to work sometimes! Don't let anyone scare you, Odin sounds like he's got a good home with a responsible owner. Enjoy his puppyhood and post lots of pictures! Also, my dog thinks hotdogs are a treat straight from heaven. You can cut them up really tiny and it's easy to get a 5 minute session out of just one hotdog! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Welcome! Sounds like you are smack on the right road. You sound like a great owner for a BC! And I know what you mean about people sounded all shocked about anyone wanting to own a BC. Which is ok with me. Because all people are not right for BC's. It takes a special person to be compatible with them, and to be able to commit to living with one. The only thing is... think of the fun and joy that all those prejudiced Non-BC people are missing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 In all likelihood, those 'oh-so-shocked-and-concerned' people are trying to look out for your best interests, in their way - After all, BCs are NOT for every owner, and many people have no idea what to expect until too late. The worry-warts fear you might be one of those unaware people. Don't worry - they'll come around, once they realize you've got your head bolted on straight. And it does sound like you've got your head on straight. Odin looks to be in very good hands. BCs thrive on mental stimulation, and many of the games that will fire their little brains can be played indoors. Some things you can do, when you're stuck inside: ~ Find the toy; put Odin in a down-stay, then hide a favorite toy somewhere in the house. Once the toy is hidden, release him hand have him find his toy. Make it simple enough at first, he'll quickly graduate to more fiendish hiding spots! ~ Shell game; Again, put Odin in a down-stay, and go to another room. Overturn several boxes or baskets, and put a treat or toy under one of them. Release Odin and have him 'find the treat (toy).' Think about it, and I'm sure you'll come up with plenty of other games. These two are just a pair of the more common ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Welcome. Depending on what you feed (that is, if you feed kibble), you could also use kibble as treats. If you feed him, say, 2 cups a day, and you end up using half a cup as treats, then you can just subtract that much from his daily feed. I know folks who just use really tiny bits of treats, little slivers really, so as not to overfeed. Generally, though, if I understand clicker training correctly, you would be fading the treats out over time, so if all the not-so-nutritionally-excellent extras are basically temporary, I wouldn't worry about it. If you're giving so many treats during the day that he's not cleaning up his real meals, then it could be a problem. And if you see that's he's getting fat or growing too fast (contrary to what advertisers would like you to believe, you don't want a roly poly puppy), cut back on the treats. Also, I agree with Tranquilis--the folks who are warning you about border collies mean well. The huge number of dogs in rescue is testament to the number of folks who got border collies and realized after the fact they for one reason or another they were too much work. You sound as if you're a well-prepared border collie newbie. A note: Unless you formally train Odin in stockwork, I would not count on him helping you to round up escaped livestock you encounter on your travels for work. An untrained or partly trained dog can do more harm than good to the livestock (which the livestock's owner will not appreciate--I'd be pretty unhappy to come home and find that someone had accidentally let my sheep escape and then tried to round them up with their untrained dog--I can just imagine the damage to my livestock that would result), and livestock, especially cattle, can do serious damage to a dog that "doesn't know better." J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks for all your advice - it is really great to hear from people who have done it and loved it. I have always been a cat person so the idea of having to really train an animal for you both to be happy, safe, and a pleasure to be around is an adjustment. I am having so much fun and success with the training. I have to say it's all because of Odin; he is soo smart and willing to please. We tried the hot dogs and kibble. Today we also tried some training for praise, no treats -he did great. Things seem to cement in his mind overnight while he sleeps so each day he does better and better at stuff we were learning the day before. And who else here has a scary-smart dog? He finished his water tonight and grabbed the bowl and took it downstairs to the bathroom faucet! To the poster warning about safety around cattle, I couldn't agree more. That requires training with people and livestock that know what they are doing before I would ever run him at a 2,000 lb animal. But I can dream and hope someday I'll get the chance to see him herd or otherwise help me at work. I saw his mom in action, though with goats (and a basketball! - mad game on that bitch!!) and she was just the most amazing thing ever. Some pictures (proud mama, can't help myself!) I predict he'll end up medium-rough coat, tipped ears, soulful almond eyes! What do you guys think? Hasn't hit the devilish age yet, just a pure sweet boy... --ooky +Odin, Dr. Benway, and Lobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Oh man - why did you have to post pictures? I Odin. I hate dogs with soulful eyes. They go straight to my heart and get away with murder. So basically you are in for some trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 See, now those are the very definition of "puppy-dog eyes." You are sooooo owned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dali Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 congratulations !! you are of to a new life with a wonderful pet ! My puppy is now 18 weeks , I'm not the one to give advise. the only thing I can say is be consistent ...they are so smart , they'll out smarten you if you are not. wow ..I love the water and bowl story !! we use his own food as treats. and we only train when he's a bit hungry. I love the pictures , he reminds me a lot of Dali ...that look ....!! it's almost the same . If they didn't have different markings I would think it's Dali good luck and enjoy!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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