agility blind eye

[anngreenthumb]

I have been doing agility training with my 4 year old BC for a year now. Shie loves it and does well, but sometimes won't do a jump or refuses the tire. I just recently found out she is blind in one eye and deaf in one ear. My agility trainer refuses to let her in classes anymore. Says she has no business doing agility if she is blind in one eye. Can't I adapt and keep going? She has not had an accident in a year.

[Laurae]

When Sophie had her eye accident and lost most or all of the sight in her left eye, I had asked people on the various border collie lists I was on at the time if she could still do agility (which I had just started doing with her). I got reassurances from all over the country—lots of different people told me about various sight-compromised dogs actively training and competing—and winning trials. But I have heard that the AKC has some ridiculous rules about "handicapped" dogs competing, so maybe your agility instructor is basing her decision on that bit of nonsense. If so, there are several other agility organizations for you and your girl to play under.

[dogsofmenace]

Bull! There are many, many completly deaf dogs competing in agility (there was a lovely article in a recent issue of Clean Run). You might have to work through some different issues because she can't see in one eye, but that shouldn't stop you two from having fun! I know that all venues (except AKC, of course, since they don't really allow anything) would let you run. Its awful that your instructor wouldn't let you come to class anymore! She has no business telling you that you're not allowed to have fun with your dog in agility! Find a better trainer and prove her wrong. You both love it, so why on earth shouldn't you be allowed to do it?

[PSmitty]

I think it sucks that your trainer feels that way! I'd be looking for another. Laura is right, AKC wouldn't let her participate, but I don't think the other organizations have a problem with it.

[MrSnappy]

To be fair ... I don't see a lot of problems for a deaf dog in agility, but I do for a dog who has vision issues. Depth perception and such being a major factor. I'm trying to be fair to the teacher here - Agility can be a really brutal sport (on the dog) and I am trying to picture Tweed, for example, running with sight in just one eye, and I am envisioning him slamming into metal posts and similar. If I found out he had vision issues, I'd probably retire him immediately. His longevity and well being are more important to me than playing agility.

 

I think if a dog is refusing certain obstacles and jumps because of the problems with his vision, he's sending you a pretty clear message that he is uncomfortable performing the challenges of an agility course when he is not completely sighted. Don't you think it is important to listen to your dog when he tells you this? Perhaps the instructor is just repeating what your dog has been trying to get you to hear.

 

This is just MO - feel free to rip me a new one; I can take it I know a dog who continued to play frisbee after he lost both eyes, which was remarkable of course! And one of our members runs a three-legged dog in flyball. Also remarkable! I also had to wear an eye patch when I scratched my cornea a few years ago ... I had to wear it for a week. TWICE I banged my head into things I couldn't see, including the pole on the bus. It's funny now, but at the time it hurt a lot and was kind of scary, since I had NO idea that pole was there. I cannot imagine doing an obstacle course like that!

 

I also think that sometimes we like agility so much we forget we are playing with a partner, and a partner who is doing most of the work. I am all for overcoming challenges - but not if it makes the dog uncomfortable, or puts them at some risk. My opinion is that good vision is an important part of playing a safe and healthy game of agility. I would probably find something else fun to do with that dog.

 

RDM

[Aquarius89]

We have a one eyed dog training to do flyball... I honestly see no reason why a dog with lost vision could not compete in agility.

[phej]

I think if a dog is refusing certain obstacles and jumps because of the problems with his vision, he's sending you a pretty clear message that he is uncomfortable performing the challenges of an agility course when he is not completely sighted.

 

Or he may not see where you are sending him with your hand/body motions if you are running on the side where is blind eye is? My friend does agility with her bc that is blind in one eye, and the pup is having a blast. He just compensates with his good eye and ears. That said, RDM makes a good point, of course, about listening to what your dog is trying to tell you... Good luck! :-)

[Ace]

I know some venues are generally safer (NADAC has lower jump heights and lower contact equipment). Also, I know DOCNA has a class (like STD, JH, or VETs or something) for handicapped dogs. I am not sure if they are in your area, but it might be worth looking into. I do believe they should be able to compete. If it was a completely blind dog, I would say it may not be worth the risk. You could for sure look into other venues that would be overall also a lot safer for your dog as well as find a new instructor.

 

I wish you the best of luck! Dont give up!

 

Diane:)

[Barb Scott]

I'd be worried about depth perception when jumping doubles, triples and the tire and also about entrances on dogwalk and teeter. Maybe that's why your trainer said no more agility classes. But if you do on, be sure to set your dog up carefully to keep things as safe as possible.

Barb S

[dogsofmenace]

Have you ever thought she refues obstacles perhaps because she doesn't fully understand what you want of her, rather than because of her vision problem? This may be the case, although I'm sure her being blind in one eye might have something to do with it.

[JohnLloydJones]

Bull! There are many, many completly deaf dogs competing in agility

One of the instructors in my agility club runs with a deaf aussie and they have a great time (and do pretty good). It's utter nonsense to stop -- at least as long as the dog is having fun.

[vanillalove]

I agree with RDM here. The dog could be sending you signals, by refusing certain obstacles, because of failure to see them and doesn't feel comfortable doing them, well, blind. I would have suggested that you could try to adapt her and use stronger vocal commands/signals to make up for her sight, so that she doesn't have to rely on watching you, when she only has one eye to use anyway. But that being said, the dog is also hard of hearing, so this makes it hard to do that!

 

I may also suggest that you try and find something else to do with your dog. Flyball could work for you guys, it would be easier for the dog to look in one direction at just one point of interest (rather than looking and listening for you to choose from the whole menagerie of choices on an agility course) and it's relatively less complicated than agility, the dogs love it too!

 

So good luck in whatever you choose. Be safe!

[Pat W.]

I watched a wonderful team over Memorial Day weekend, a deaf aussie and her handler, aussie was the result of a merle x merle and was pure white. Poor dog was stone deaf, but they were the most incredible team. Visual is a whole nother kettle of fish and I can testify first hand as I had to retire my aussie due to cataracts in both eyes leaving him minimal perephrial vision. Riley was crashing obsticles, refusing the DW his most favorite, and shying at dark shadows on the ground - thinking they were holes. It broke my heart to take a game loves away from him, but or his saftey it was best. I do know a dog named Flurry a blue merle bc that suffered from sever vision problems - the handler was well known and veteran agilty people on the East Coast will know who I mean. This dog ran well for several years, but you had to be spot on with commands and the dog had to really a) know its job and trust the handler. There were a few times when that command was a little off and it wasnt pretty. I would talk to your vet, do your research and listen to what your girl is telling you.

[anngreenthumb]

Thanks for all the advice. Confusing and varied, but interesting. I guess I don't worry as much about her because she is NOT a fast contender. She is slower, but very methodical. I may never compete with her, probably not, because she is slow...but I would like to still go to class with her and practice. She doesn't herd, she hates to play ball, she flunked out of search and rescue, so this is all she has left to do. She loves it, keeping her from doing zoomies is always a problem, so a conundrum ey?

[Pat W.]

If she only having a problem with certain obsticles then I would enter classes where they can be avoided ie if you do USDAA that would be Jumpers, Gamblers, andSnooker, Nadac offers gaters, hoopers, tunnlers, and chances. I would also jump on the yahoo group "Cleanrun" and see if anyone has any suggestions for training/trialing

[mum24dog]

I know of one Agility Champion (min poodle) over here in the UK that is virtually blind in one eye and is losing the sight of the other. His sight was bad before he got to be a Champion.

And I know of a BC that is blind in one eye that regularly competes in Champ classes.

Another min poodle a few years ago was losing his sight and his handler used to get down on all fours to see the course from his viewpoint so she could get in the right position to help him.

I probably know more but it's simply not obvious.

As for deafness - no problem. A deaf kelpie competed at Crufts this year (or was it last year?) And a 3 legged 11 year old lurcher that was just great.

We have a deaf lurcher in our club too and another member is thinking of adopting a deaf BC.

We don't tend to discriminate over here - maybe because our KC allows all dogs to play.

 

Pam

[MrSnappy]

Bull! There are many, many completly deaf dogs competing in agility

 

To recap - the OP's instructor never said the dog couldn't play because of her hearing impairment - the emphasis seems to be on the vision impairment. The fact the dog is deaf in one ear probably simply exacerbates the issues the dog is having with its vision. That's two of her senses being compromised, and quite a bit to compensate for.

 

A lot of replies in here lumped hearing loss and vision loss into the same category, and I don't think they are the same at all. For example, I can run Piper wordlessly, as she watches for my body cues. I doubt very much I could run her with a blindfold on her though!

 

OTOH, the way I handle, it probably seems to onlookers that *I* have a blindfold on

 

To the OP - if you want continue to with agility, and your instructor disagrees, get a second opinion from another instructor. Perhaps compromise and don't do certain obstacles that you know your dog will have difficulty with, or that you and the instructor agree might pose a problem. I would, as someone said, be extra cautious with spreads and most contact obstacles.

 

There are other sports to try though. I hear Rally-O is fun, and taxing for the dog's brain. And a myriad of other little games you can think up as well.

 

RDM

[Alaska]

Blind in both eyes is a problem for sure, but many agility organizations do not restrict dogs that are blind in only one eye. I can think of at least two dogs who've earned NATCHs and beyond who were blind in one eye, at least one of those from birth.

 

But if your dog is refusing obstacles, for whatever reason, you need to figure out why that is. Maybe your instructor has already reached the conclusion that your dog's limitations are the reason and that's why she feels the dog should not continue in agility? I'm always surprised at the number of people who are willing to pass judgement over the internet on a situation they themselves have not seen. Having not seen you and your dog do agility, I'd be inclined to accept that the instructor may in fact have a valid reason for what she's telling you. RDM's suggestion to have another KNOWLEDGEABLE person evaluate the situation seems like a reasonable next step.

 

FWIW, my dog's handler is (legally) blind in one eye, and no one has yet suggested that we take up a different activity

 

I hear Rally-O is fun, and taxing for the dog's brain.

I think Rally-O is maybe taxing for the average labradoodle brain, but the only way I could make it challenging for my dogs was to turn it into a speed-training exercise. As in, don't start training the exercises until the week before the trial and see if you can master them all in time.

[airbear]

This dog absolutely blew me away when I first saw him at a USDAA Regionals a few years ago. There is no way that I could believe that he had one eye:

. I don't know his handler so I can't comment on what kind of challenges his "handicap" has presented. It seems kind of odd that you would be asked to leave a class based on what you have recounted. Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise, and you should take the opportunity to find a new trainer?

 

OT, anyone remember Kate Broadbent's Decks? Three legs, one eye, and one heck of a sheepdog!

[anngreenthumb]

I guess it hurts because she is an active, smart, DUH, border collie and I really have strived to keep her entertained. She is totally bored with Rally O and any kind of obedience. I mean what good is a sport if you can't do a zoomie? In search and rescue she only wanted to find women and kids. She is so afraid of men because of her previous abuse, the abuse that caused the blind eye and deaf ear. You can't get her to chase a ball for anything...I don't know why. She loves agility and hiking and would be a good jogging partner, but I don't jog. We walk a lot and hike in the summer. I may make/buy more agility equipment and train more at home, but she zoomies so much more at home. I guess I just feel like a border collie owner failure, because I can't keep her busy enough. But I tried everything.

[PSmitty]

You know, I'm thinking that the OP said "sometimes" refuses a jump or the tire. I don't think we can make the assumption that the dog is *regularly* refusing obstacles, and is therefore signaling that agility might be a problem for her. Could be that the dog has missed the body language or signal from the handler, or maybe is just having an off day. I still think, with compensation on the handler's part, now that she's aware of her dog's limitations, the two of them should still be able to have fun with agility.

 

ETA: Oops, sorry, Ann. I see we were posting at the same time. See above. ^ JMO, of course.

 

And I feel ya on Rally-O. Booooring. I've retired my lab mix from agility and probably flyball. My DH keeps saying to try Rally-O with her, but I fear we'd both be bored to tears.

[Root Beer]

I guess it hurts because she is an active, smart, DUH, border collie and I really have strived to keep her entertained. She is totally bored with Rally O and any kind of obedience. I mean what good is a sport if you can't do a zoomie? In search and rescue she only wanted to find women and kids. She is so afraid of men because of her previous abuse, the abuse that caused the blind eye and deaf ear. You can't get her to chase a ball for anything...I don't know why. She loves agility and hiking and would be a good jogging partner, but I don't jog. We walk a lot and hike in the summer. I may make/buy more agility equipment and train more at home, but she zoomies so much more at home. I guess I just feel like a border collie owner failure, because I can't keep her busy enough. But I tried everything.

 

From what you describe, it sounds to me that your instructor may not be a good fit for you and your dog. Based on what you describe, it may be possible for your dog to do Agility safely - especially if it is just for fun.

 

Even if you wanted to compete, there are low-key options. CPE has an Enthusiast division where dogs get 5 extra seconds of course time and can jump 4 inches lower than their measured height. I do this division with Maddie since she is 7 years old and is not really a "fast" dog, although she can fly when she wants to! There is also a Specialist division where the dog can jump 4 more inches lower, so a typical Border Collie could jump 12!

 

I'm not sure if being blind in one eye or deaf in one ear would set her off balance to the point where Agility would be dangerous. It might, but it might not. And she may miss jumps and things because of her perception of them, but it could also be because she is missing your cues. I wouldn't quit, but I would move ahead carefully. You might need to train clearer cues for when you are out of her range of vision.

 

Why not contact other training facilities in your area and see if someone else might work with you? Maybe privates would be a good way to proceed.

 

At this point I would be trying to determine whether or not she has trouble recognizing the equipment in front of her, or if she is just missing your directional cues. That determination would be a big factor in whether or not I would continue with a dog who is blind in one eye.

[Shetlander]

I guess I just feel like a border collie owner failure, because I can't keep her busy enough. But I tried everything.

 

You know, I don't think most Border Collies truly need a cruise director for their activities. Just because she is a Border Collie doesn't mean she MUST be involved in organized sports or have an occupation like SAR. It seems to me these dogs benefit from keeping their minds and bodies active and being part of their owners' lives.

 

When I was heavily involved in agility, sometimes when I'd be driving home from a trial, I'd pass a park where people were walking or playing with their dogs. I'd get a little twinge, like "maybe my dog would be happier if we just hung out more rather than going to shows every weekend." However, my dog was perfectly happy going to shows every weekend. He loved agility. Even more than agility, he loved being with me and having the special bond we shared.

 

Quinn is turning three and is a dream when it comes to sports. He has fun with agility. He's very talented with disc dog stuff. I'm sure with a more enthusiastic handler, he'd enjoy obedience. Nothing would make him happier than to be a farm dog with sheep to work every day. Despite all this, I'm confident that he is a happy dog with the quiet life he leads which doesn't even include classes, much less showing and worst of all, no sheep. Still, he gets plenty of exercise. We train little tricks now and then. He is a car dog par excellence. He goes to work with me a couple days a week where he can schmooze all day long with people.... or sleep. We hang out together a lot. He's perfectly happy and just like my agility dog, he loves being with me and having the special bond we share.

 

I'm sure however it works out for your dog as far as agility or other sports or being the best companion ever, that she will have a great life with an owner who is as devoted as you sound. Just cut yourself a little slack and remember, she's living in the moment, not thinking "Why aren't I signed up for that advanced agility class yet?" When I used to teach agility, I was always reminding students "Your dog doesn't know if he qualified, if he placed, or if he earned a title. What he does know is if he had fun and if you're happy with him."

 

So go have fun with your girl in whatever way you feel is safe for her and let her know how happy she makes you.

[urge to herd]

Anne,

 

Please don't beat yourself up! You're obviously trying to do the best thing for your dog - that's the most important thing. I've got a couple suggestions.

 

Put a patch over one of your eyes and walk around your house and your yard. Notice how your depth perception pretty much vanishes. If you do this for a couple days, you slowly adjust and pick up other cues that allow you to judge some distance/depth stuff. Go over a course by yourself with that one eye patched - it changes everything. (like RDM, I speak from experience.) You might try doing an easy course at slower speed, always staying on her sighted side.

 

Experiment off course with how easily your gestures read to your dog. Do your cues/signals need to be bigger, more precise? Does she read back and forth motion better than up and down or side to side? Could she do better with more, louder, more precise verbal signals?

 

And, look into making some simple equipment for home and use big contrast - bigger stripes of black across the white pvc, for example.

 

It seems to me that you could look at this as just another challenge in how to work with your particular dog. You'll have to experiment to find out what works best for you and her.

 

Good luck! And if she's already SAR trained, maybe you could do tracking exercises with her just for fun.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[anngreenthumb]

Thank you. you did make me make a change today with my home equipment. I added some stripes and tape to them. we'll see if it helps. she is a happy girl. I need to remember that.