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I am not new to the boards, just returning and I have a new pup. He is a 2 year old male. He has his canine GC and his advanced behavior classes. This was all needed for search and rescue. he is a great dog and minds well. I started him with herding lessons a while ago and it was great watching him just instinctively know what to do. The trainer said he has not much eye, but controls well with his body and has great balance. Then the day came after about 3 months, that he became the herder from hell. All of a sudden he won't listen when herding, not to anyone, and just runs wild. In a small pen he grips like mad. What went wrong? How can he go from well behaved in agility and search and rescue and become the dog from *&^ in herding? Is this common? He seems to love to scatter the sheep and them collect them up again, but only at his own command, not others. I'd appreciate any reassurances or comments.

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Obedience many times goes out the window when you put a dog on sheep in the early stages. Don't try and compare how he is off sheep to on- there just is no comparison in the dog's mind. You have to go back to square one, or if you are already there, make sure your trainer is comfortable with highly driven forceful dogs, and can teach the dog how to do the right thing, without shutting him completely down. Some dogs are more stubborn than others, but there is no way to tell what your dog is like without seeing him work. My dog had a wonderful down off sheep, and it has taken a lot of work to get it on sheep.

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Not an expert but what does your instructor say about the new behavior?

 

Are you working the dog or your instructor? Has that changed recently? Has the stock changed or anything about the situation?

 

In my experience- dogs that were "good" will start acting out for the following reasons (I'm sure there are more, but these are the most common I've seen).

 

- A inexperienced person is working the dog and is not consistent or firm enough so the dog does not feel as secure as it did with the more experienced person or instructor.

 

- Something is going on where the dog is being frustrated and not allowed to develop it's method or it's being asked to do things "over it's head". Also, some dogs are really anxious with small pens and fences- it doesn't allow them to give the stock room and they may feel threatened by the stock and grip. Might be better off in a larger area (but you stay really, really close to the sheep at all times!) where they can give the sheep distance.

 

- The dog lacked confidence and relied more on the handler in the beginning, now is "feeling his oats" and testing boundaries. This is the best case scenario because it should get better with time and consistent handling.

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Not an expert but what does your instructor say about the new behavior?

 

Are you working the dog or your instructor? Has that changed recently? Has the stock changed or anything about the situation?

 

In my experience- dogs that were "good" will start acting out for the following reasons (I'm sure there are more, but these are the most common I've seen).

 

- A inexperienced person is working the dog and is not consistent or firm enough so the dog does not feel as secure as it did with the more experienced person or instructor.

 

- Something is going on where the dog is being frustrated and not allowed to develop it's method or it's being asked to do things "over it's head". Also, some dogs are really anxious with small pens and fences- it doesn't allow them to give the stock room and they may feel threatened by the stock and grip. Might be better off in a larger area (but you stay really, really close to the sheep at all times!) where they can give the sheep distance.

 

- The dog lacked confidence and relied more on the handler in the beginning, now is "feeling his oats" and testing boundaries. This is the best case scenario because it should get better with time and consistent handling.

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A lot of what you said is true. He does better with the trainer/instructor than with me. He also gets frustrated when the sheep don't do what he wants. Also instructor said he is a little nervous too close to the fence. He also got feistier when he got more accustomed to what he was doing. I guess I just wondered if it was a common thing to lose your brain when you begin herding.

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A lot of what you said is true. He does better with the trainer/instructor than with me. He also gets frustrated when the sheep don't do what he wants. Also instructor said he is a little nervous too close to the fence. He also got feistier when he got more accustomed to what he was doing. I guess I just wondered if it was a common thing to lose your brain when you begin herding.

 

I think it is very common for dogs to go through phases while they learn about sheep. This is a good article about that phenomena by Patrick Shannahan and I like this quote especially... " I once joked with a good friend of mine, that at about age two, my best prospects start to look bad and I think of selling them. But luckily at the same time, they usually look so bad that no one is interested in buying them. If I just wait it out….they become the dogs I think they are capable of." (link is http://www.patrickshannahan.com/abcmstagescompetitivedog.asp )

 

Personally, I think youngsters are "golden" in that its hard to see their faults or mild misbehaving because we are so excited that they want to work and seem ready to conquer the world. Then reality usually hits me about a year to two years old that all dogs have issues and holes they need to work through to become the best dogs they can be. I sometimes wish I could package that 1 year old prospect and have it turn out exactly the way I hoped for but then I would miss the pleasure of re-discovering how good they are after they've had some stumblings and came out the better for it.

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I sometimes wish I could package that 1 year old prospect and have it turn out exactly the way I hoped for but then I would miss the pleasure of re-discovering how good they are after they've had some stumblings and came out the better for it.

well said. My little 2 year old herder :rolleyes: brings me a smile every day because of all he is learning and the joy he has. At least he does everything to the fullest, I wish we all did.

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