Aggression

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I have an 7 month old male border collie that is exhibiting serious aggression towards other people and dogs. He is also very fearful of different things out and about also if we move things around in the house. We got him at 5 1/2 weeks of age in the fall. I know 2 problems right there, too young and since it was close to winter we didn't have many people around so very little socialization. He started showing serious fearful aggressive problems around 2 1/2 mo. old, such as biting, lunging and peeing. We started a puppy training class around 4 months old and were told we had to do individual classes because he was aggressive to others. We have been doing them one on one for a few months with no real progress. He is smart so obviously he is picking up the training real fast but the aggression is not getting any better. He has bit the trainer several times, she feels it is not so much a fearful aggression thing but overall aggressive with some fearful (make sense?)

 

My question is what kind of training works best with borders. Our trainer is doing the all positive, woo hoo, continual treats type of training with no real "no no's". I understand that this breed is extremely sensitive, our dog all you have to do is give him a look and he is like "whoa, I Must give you bunches of kisses right now!" It is quite cute but very submissive.

 

I am completely frustrated and don't know where to turn. Can this behavior be turned around or will it get a little better but never what I would love it to be. He is the sweetest, most loving dog to our family (the ones living in the house), I love his personality and his intensity, I just for the life of me don't know what to do about the aggression.

 

Thank you for any input

 

Tracy

[afrancis]

Tracy,

I think you have quite a bit of work to do. It sounds like:

(i) you need to do a search on aggression here on the Boards and do as much reading as you can around this issue and suggestions that have been given. It is probably one of the most commonly asked questions.

(ii) you need to do a lot of structured socializing with your pup, both outside and inside the house, with dogs that you know will be predictable as well as people.

(iii) you may need to get a new trainer/behaviourist (forget the Petsmart route here -- go with a more experienced outfit)

(iv) there are lots of good books on aggression that have been referenced already - I hope others will mention them to you since I can't remember their titles - darn!

(v) with my dog Skye we have trained with treats, but I find that she almost responds more to praise, so treats aren't even that necessary.

(vi) train, train, train -- so that when there is an aggressive response to something, you can check it immediately and get back his attention.

(vii) is he neutered yet?

 

Good luck and keep us posted,

Ailsa

[nancy in AZ]

I've re-posted this from a recent earlier post on the subject:

 

There are behavior modification techniques that you may find you can successfully teach her, but ultimately they would begin with separating her from the situations that cause her to trigger.

This general subject has come up many times on these boards before and if you do a search for " fear aggression'" or "biting" you'll likely find a wealth of info, reading recommendations, experiences and approaches. (I think there are some discussions on the subject pinned in the archived thread section as well)

 

You may want to do a little reading and research and then come back to have specific questions answered once you are familiar with the basics.

 

There are several people on these boards who have been in a similar position (myself included), and have been able to successfully manage their dogs either by avoiding situations that cause them to trigger, or successfully using training and behavior approaches to modify their dog's reactivity(typically a combinatin of both). It's time consuming and takes alot of patience, consistency and determination, but it can be done. Success ultimately depends on how reactive the dog is, and how dedicated the people in the dog's home environment are. Good luck.

 

 

Another post from an earlier discussion:

 

Just to respond briefly, under these circumstances forewarned is forearmed. Do all the research you can so you have an understanding of what to look for in a viable candidate. You need to have a sense of which approach is appropriate and what is unacceptable before subjecting your dog to any professional interaction. Listen to your gut.

 

Use the search function on these boards to read prior threads about aggression issues. There are several threads in the archives section of the boards. Here are just a couple:

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...p;hl=aggression

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...t=0&start=0

 

 

You can do some preliminary things to work with your dog such as the protocol for relaxation and NILF (do a google search). I think you can find out about it on this website and there is a wealth of info here:

http://www.k9aggression.com/Aggression/aggression_main.html

 

And lastly, if I were in your shoes (and I have been), do not permit your dog to be present in any situation where she has the oppportunity or inclination to act out until you're well started on a path toward progress.

 

link to the full thread above:

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...c=17298&hl=

 

 

Edited to add:

The reason most knowledgable, qualified behaviorists recommend positive reinforcement for changing aggressive behaviors is it tends to keep the dogs in a less anxious state, one in which they are more likely to learn to make new associations with formerly fear-inducing situations. Patricia McConnell has an excellent manual "The Cautious Canine", that provides a step by step guide on how to work toward this goal.

[Shetlander]

You are getting some very good advice. I second finding a good behaviorist. The best book I can think of for this is Click to Calm by Emma Parsons which can be very effective for reactive, fearful, and/or aggressive dogs. There are at least two other threads just in the past couple of days on aggression issues. You should check them out for additional information as well as doing a search of older threads on these boards. There is a group on Yahoo for dogs with aggression issues.

 

Your dog is still very young so I would say there is hope but you do have a challenge on your hands. We don't generally go looking for these challenges but when we take them on for whatever reason, we often find immense rewards for our extra efforts. The bond we form with our "special needs" dogs can be amazing.

[mbc1963]

I agree! Search for all the previous posts. If you find some from me, you'll see the books that were really helpful to me... and others will make their own suggestions.

 

Most of all, I'd say safely exposing to triggers is the key. My own 18-month-old adopted dog had to take puppy classes way in the back of the hall, away from the puppies, because he was so dog-reactive that they made him growl and lunge. After a few months, we did the class again and he could participate just fine, as long as other dogs didn't get right up in our face. There is hope, and you can do it!

 

Mary

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Thank you soo much for your replys and suggestions that it can be done. He is such a sweet dog that it is so hard to see him so distressed over so many situations. Slow and steady. Also he is not neutered but will be next friday, we are really hoping that it will help him, I know it won't make it all go away but from what I have heard he may settle a bit.

 

Thank you all again!

[herdcentral]

I can sympathise with your situation having been in a similar one myself. With a lot of work and slowly reducing her fear and reactivity to her triggers we made quite a lot of progress. It was an ongoing progress and was not easy but I learnt so much.

 

It took lots of reading, the help of a very professional trainer with lots of experience in these issues and also good support and information from the yahoo group shy K9

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/shy-k9s/

[nancy in AZ]

Have you had his thyroid levels checked? Low thyroid can also induce aggressive tendencies and it's always best to rule out a physical cause for behavior issues first.

 

Check out this thread about low thyroid :

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...c=18218&hl=

 

Here's the backstory:

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...c=18055&hl=

 

Do a search for "Holly" to read about her progress since the diagnosis

[KJ]

ditto on all the above

Maybe a new trainer? Where are you located?

 

 

Click to calm is a great book and there's also a forum to ask questions to the author and many others and all behaviour topics. I just ordered Control Unleashed and joined her list too. I think having the list serves are such a bonus.

 

Have hope! Lots of it for your baby is young.

 

kim

[Tracer]

You all have so many helpful tips, I appreciate it! We have been working on redirecting when he starts to focus on something. I actually called him back from "the Killer Robin" this morning with a bunch of woo hoo's, so I am going to take this is a good sign!

 

He had a bunch of bloodwork for his neuter this friday so I would assume they would notify us if there was a problem. We have had strangers run their hands through his food to get him used to different smells, now he literally takes 9 hours to finish his breakfast, very stubborn! But he has always been a grazer, usually taking several hours to finish his meals.

 

I have looked back through some of the posts regarding fear aggression and it sounds like we are kinda on tract, just will be a long haul. Is this a common thing with Borders? We have had huskys and husky/wolves, but they were so laid back they would show people into the house if we weren't home!

 

Thank you all again

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

"...now he literally takes 9 hours to finish his breakfast, very stubborn! But he has always been a grazer, usually taking several hours to finish his meals."

 

 

Granted I am not a professional, but one of the many who have a "problem child". Daisy is dog reactive and shows some fear agression, but mostly she has low confidence in new situations. We use some of the theories behind the NILIF (nothing in life is free) approach which includes a feeding schedule. I am surprised your trainer hasn't mentioned that. No free feeding, he should offer a sit and wait for the food, then released to eat it, given 15 minutes to eat, what's left is gone till next feeding time. Your pup is still young so that might be pushing it a bit far, but a feeding time would be a better idea than free feeding with a dog that has some issues. You should research that and talk to your trainer about it as well.

[nancy in AZ]

He had a bunch of bloodwork for his neuter this friday so I would assume they would notify us if there was a problem.

 

I don't know whether or not thyroid levels specifically are checked in bloodwork pre-surgery, but I would ask to make sure. They may just look for red flags suggesting illness or infection such as white count. Anyone here know?

[herdcentral]

I don't know whether or not thyroid levels specifically are checked in bloodwork pre-surgery, but I would ask to make sure. They may just look for red flags suggesting illness or infection such as white count. Anyone here know?

 

I doubt it, I think the pre surgery tests check for things like kidney and liver function. I asked my local vet to specifically check my dogs thyroid function and he told me that he wouldnt because in his opinion she was young and healthy and her her coat was shiny.

 

I had to look around for a vet who understood the connection between aggression and thyroid function. There are specific thyroid function tests that a vet who is interested in behavioural problems will know what to do.