Chasing Feet

[HarleysDad]

Harley is about to turn 3 and one of his more annoying habits is that when outside he chases and bites at my feet. He is just trying to play with me but it gets a little annoying and sometimes painful when I'm barefoot or wearing flip flops. I have scolded him to no end but he just jumps back, barks at me and come right back at my feet. Any suggestions on breaking this? Thanks

[herdcentral]

My young ACD used to do this. So as soon as she started this I would stop and stand still. She soon realised that nipping feet equated to a very boring outcome. If she didnt nip she would be rewarded with play.

 

Being a very smart dog she quickly got the idea. Occassionally she would forget herself but was quickly reminded when everything came quickly to a dead stop!

[karrie]

Well, bitter apple on those little piggies mite help. If you don't have that or you got a weirdo dog like me, who likes bitter apple. then I would suggest a hot sauce. Sounds cruel maybe but it did wonders for getting Tuck and Sam to stop trying to teeth on my Grandma's rocker. I only had to apply it to the rockers legs twice. They both decided that rocker just didn't taste as good anymore and that the cow hooves were much better.

 

Another way maybe tote a squirt gun and he goes for your toes squirt him and say NO. Course, I have one dog that likes the squirt gun. For that one a nice loud ANNTE or clip of the hands occupying the NO works.

 

Round here the critters are like my kids... querky bunch of nuts! {What works for one doesn't always work on the others.} And I want chickens..... Someone please send for the men in white coats if I ever get those chickens cause with my luck, I'll have crowing hens, hens who think they are dogs or cats, spoiled brat hens and roosters attempting to lay eggs. Come to think of it, I can't recall ever having a NORMAL aka none querky critter. Every living thing is different, just gotta find the one thing that works or figure out what you and or society is willing to accept. You'll get the yummy foot game solved. Just stay consistent. Oh and giving someone a toy to play with before interest in the feet mite not be a bad idea either. I hear these BC's love jobs. Seems balls and owners getting tennis elbow comes up fairly often. Good Luck to those toes!

 

I'm sure someone will pipe in soon with some regular training methods to use.

[1sheepdoggal]

With pups that Ive raised that like to heel and nip, Ive always found that a well timed boot heel instead of a soft pant leg works pretty swiftly. They suffer their own consequences then, and are able to decide for themselves that it isnt much fun. But ya gotta watch and see it coming. Ya dont have to bloody their lip, or knock out any teeth, just a good tap is enough.

[Skyler]

My little Koda was TERRIBLE about this to the point if you even moved you were had...LOL. I tried all of the above techniques with the listed results:

 

1) Freeze - Tug, Tug, Tug

2) Bitter Apple - Lick, Lick, Lick

3) Shoe Heel - Ahhhh, he just wants to play ROUGH!....Get the OTHER leg!

 

Sigh, it was a long road and a very frustrating one but he is 99% cured at this point through these techniques.

 

1) Misdirection: When he's coming in to bite heels misdirect to -

A - Turn and have him chase you into a COME command. Bring him in and do a sit then praise.

B - Keep a toy he loves on you at all times and misdirect into playing with it. You can use a NO BITE

here and bring attention to what he wants (the toy) and until he performs a desired behavior or

stops the bite and looks at you, he doesnt get it.

C - Similar to FREEZE but stop, correct with NO BITE, and if he doesnt immediately stop, put him inside for

time out (5 min?). Simply stopping play for a minute may not be enough. He needs to see that biting your

heels means SEPARATION from you and play both....total game over.

 

2) Noise: Simply use a noise device such as a rattle can to startle your dog. This worked best for me as he was a puppy but

it could have adverse effects. It simply puts an unpleasant experience to an action.

 

This worked for me so good luck!

[1sheepdoggal]

Shoe Heel - Ahhhh, he just wants to play ROUGH!....Get the OTHER leg!

 

Maybe ya didnt pop him hard enough, ya gotta do it to where it gives them a clear directive that your NOT playing.

[Skyler]

Shoe Heel - Ahhhh, he just wants to play ROUGH!....Get the OTHER leg!

 

Maybe ya didnt pop him hard enough, ya gotta do it to where it gives them a clear directive that your NOT playing.

 

 

Well, he got a few good knocks in and it only made him worse. Given that he was just a pup I was very leary about really hurting him. I figured I would try other techniques. I would matter of factly grab his collar, take him inside and put him in his crate EVERY time he did it for about 5 minutes.

 

I posted this after walking away for a few minutes and forgot to add the most effective one for my dog which was the rattle can. I ammended the post to include it as I just lost track of what I was doing after walking away from it. I dont know if it would work for everyone but for Koda it was a life saver!

[Alaska]

I taught my other BC the meaning of "Come get this dog!" She comes running and deflects Mr. Mouthy's desire to play onto her. Very helpful.

 

Meanwhile, I worked on training a generalized "leave it". It's now strong enough that it works in this context.

 

Freezing in place definitely does not work with this dog. Redirecting his attention to another task does, but you have to come up with something you want him to do instead (like chase the other dog). "Leave it" means he has to think of something else to do without my help.

 

I don't kick or throw things at my dogs. (Throwing things for my dogs is another matter entirely )

[Skyler]

No, I dont believe in "kicking" my dogs either but walking high and him getting in the way of it was my meaning. I should have clarified that as I dont believe in hitting dogs - absolutely NOT.

 

But I do throw things at my dogs all the time....LOL I regularly throw stuffed toys at Koda and it gets him all fired up...LOL. He gets hit in the butt with a toy and then turns in a play crouch and says, "what you got next!" He loves speedy throws (and I dont mean hard as I can) of very soft plush animals and what-not. He drops and waits for the next! Its a great game I think its really helped his frisbee actually. He is only 5.5 months old and is already catching butterfly frisbee throws very well....and those are HARD for any adult to get well. If you dont know what that is, its facing your dog and taking a disc and flipping it end over end toward the face for a catch. It looks brilliant when you do three or four in a row quickly.

[RuthBelle]

Belle seemed to enjoy the taste of Bitter Apple, so I have a big, old bottle of it collecting dust. What I discovered by accident is she hates the smell of oranges!

 

One day, while dusting my furniture with some orangey smelling cleaner, Belle got a whiff of it while nosing around and backed away pronto! I had a can of "Pure Citrus" air deoderizer (I get mine at WallyWorld for under $4.00) and sprayed it on my pants legs and on the unused shoes she would "Grab and Go". At least for Miss Belle, it works like an absolute charm!!!

 

While she was still in that little puppy nippy stage, I would spray the back of my hands with it and she'd quit right away. Gotta be careful putting it on your skin though, it's really drying.

 

This stuff works great as long as you don't mind smelling like an orange. I did try some other orange air fresheners, but the Pure Citrus works the best.

[SalemsMom]

The rattle can worked wonders for me. She hasn't tried it in a long time now. It worked really quickly! Cheza was terrible with this. I tried so much stuff, but the rattle can had her cured of her feet nipping in a day or 2.

[painted_ponies]

Violet's awful about chasing and biting DH's feet. She does it as part of her obsessive/compulsive need to control things. It happens if DH is walking around erratically, in her opinion, like while he's cooking in the kitchen, or if the other dogs start playing and Vi can't get them to stop she takes it out on DH's feet. DH knows by now when she's likely to go for him and shouts "NO" or "ANNNGH" emphatically enough to halt her in her tracks. (DH used to be a middle school band teacher and can project his voice pretty well when he wants to. ) This snaps her out of her compulsive zone and she goes back to being her normal sweet self. For a few minutes.

 

With Faith, who leaps and bites at me purely out of joie de vivre and not mental illness, I do the same as I would with a nippy horse and turn so that she smacks facefirst into my elbow (when she's performing her airs above the ground ) or arrange for her to have a similarly unpleasant experience as Darci described. Yelling "cut it out, you little CREEP" helps convey to her that I am NOT playing.

[1sheepdoggal]

Yelling "cut it out, you little CREEP" helps convey to her that I am NOT playing.

 

Ha Sally! Good one! I perfer the term sh*t head, but it all translates the same!

[HarleysDad]

I thought I subscribed to this thread but after 1 reply I didn't get anymore notices. I was beginning to think Harley was the only feet chasing Border Collie around. Well his 3rd birthday is tomorrow so I will let him do what he pleases for that day but then we need to solve this problem. I have tried stern nos, which he knows well EXCEPT when its something he REALLY wants to do in which case he just fusses back at me. I've tried stopping and / or turning around to which he just runs to the other side and / or barks at me to move again. He only does it when we are outside off of the patio, thank goodness. He has been known to chase my girlfriend's feet inside but he rarely tries that with me and stops with a no when he does. Its like the yard is where he (and me apparently) does what he wants to do. I'm not a fan of hitting pets but I have even tried giving him a swat on his butt but after the first one he just learned to anticipate it and jump out of the way, and of course fuss at me. I'll give the bitter apple and the rattle can a shot, thanks for those suggestions. The feet chasing and jumping up on new people are his only real bad habits, but they are annoying ones. Once again, with the jumping up, he doesn't do it to me so its hard to correct it on those occasions when he is all excited about a new person. Its embarrassing because most people don't like dogs jumping up on them so I have to keep him at bay like he is mean or something. Obviously he knows he shouldn't do those things, he just choses to do them anyway. Honery little guy huh?

[Skyler]

Well his 3rd birthday is tomorrow so I will let him do what he pleases for that day but then we need to solve this problem.

 

I've tried stopping and / or turning around to which he just runs to the other side and / or barks at me to move again.

 

The feet chasing and jumping up on new people are his only real bad habits, but they are annoying ones. Once again, with the jumping up, he doesn't do it to me so its hard to correct it on those occasions when he is all excited about a new person.

 

Obviously he knows he shouldn't do those things, he just choses to do them anyway.

 

Well, happy birthday to you pup! I hate to say it but this is going to take consistency over a long period of time most likely. You need to be prepared for a long challenge as he has gotten away with this for 3 years now. You may get instant success with the rattle can but then again it may not work at all and just cause him to bet more excited. I would relate it to Koda and putting him in his crate. He would try and make me chase him because he didnt want to go in there. So I just brought him in the bedroom and closed the door behind me to prevent escape. Every time I would just take him by the collar and guide him in there even when he just flopped over like a little kid. I would just pick him up and put him in. The consistency was that every time he would fuss over the fact, what I wanted to happen ALWAYS happened no matter what he did. Now?...I just open the door and say, "Crate" and he scoots right in without a single fuss because he KNOWS he is going in anyway. You are going to have to do the same with your dog in that if he does THIS he is going to get THAT. It will work even if it takes months.

 

The jumping issue can be corrected the same way. EVERY time you have someone come to the door or greet someone you must put him on a leash. He has to be forced to sit or no attention at all...not even a look from the guest. As soon as he sits he gets all the love he wants from them but if he jumps up on them while they are petting him, pull him back and the guest must again ignore him. Find some buddies willing to help you work this one out. Treats can be useful here as well - have the guest treat when he sits. But the key is consistency. BCs are exceptionally bright (sometimes to smart for their own good!) and he will get it. There is a more physical way to do it but I dont suggest a guest try it. You could coax him up on you and mildly pop him in the chest with your knee everytime he gets up. However, if your dog is the least bit aggressive do NOT try this. Make sure you do it very mildly to where it is uncomfortable for him and not painful. This tends to put in the dogs mind that if he does this humans do this. Its done as though its just how it is and not punishment or even a thing at all. It should bleed over to anyone not just you. However, he will not do it when you want him to after learning this - once its done its done. I train my BCs for frisbee competition so I would never use this technique as I never want them to be afraid of putting their feet on me. I end up teaching them an off command instead in combination with the sit to be greeted behavior that takes more work. They learn its OK to put feet on ONLY me and nobody else.

 

I say give the first thing a shot but if he is just stubborn as heck you always have option two. But again, do it mildly if your dog is not aggressive in the least (hes obviously not introverted so you dont have worry there) and seek out a trainer if youre uncomfortable or inexperienced in training.

 

Good luck and I hope you get this one ironed out. Ive been there and it sucks but it is definately fixable.

[BustopherJones]

Over the years, with numerous dogs, I have learned that a water pistol (filled with room-temperatrue water) has a way of getting the point across, without injuring the dog; it effectively conveys a reprimand without associating the action with (and therefore any resnetment toward) the owner.

[Skyler]

Over the years, with numerous dogs, I have learned that a water pistol (filled with romm-temperatrue water) has a way of getting the point across, without injuring the dog; it effectively conveys a reprimand without associating the action with (and therefore any resnetment toward) the owner.

 

 

Its worth a try if you dont mind a soggy dog I have heard this technique and tried it on my last three Border Collies without success. I have found with my personal dogs that they rather like it and eagerly wait for the next squirt But, dogs vary so it may work for one and not another just like a rattle can may work for one and not another. Just another tool in the ole bag-o-tricks.

[juliepoudrier]

I think Darci and Sally have the right idea. Unfortunately after three years of getting away with it, it's become a habit and you'll probably have to escalate your corrections correspondingly.

 

J.

[Lenajo]

I think Darci and Sally have the right idea. Unfortunately after three years of getting away with it, it's become a habit and you'll probably have to escalate your corrections correspondingly.

 

J.

 

add me to that list. As Don McCaig so nicely put in on SheepdogL: "Mr Boot" is always available as a training tool. This is an an obnoxious and dangerous habit, and will require some serious intervention to get it stopped. If he even looked at my feet sideways I'd come down on him like a ton of bricks.

[Shetlander]

Over the years, with numerous dogs, I have learned that a water pistol (filled with romm-temperatrue water) has a way of getting the point across, without injuring the dog; it effectively conveys a reprimand without associating the action with (and therefore any resnetment toward) the owner.

 

I'm probably being grumpy today but personally I don't have a problem with my dog resenting me for correcting such an obnoxious and potentially dangerous habit. He can resent me all he likes. If we have a sound relationship, he'll get over it soon enough. Sometimes I think it is much kinder for all involved if we make it very clear what we will not tolerate. The dog might sulk for a bit but if you continue on, business as usual there is no reason for the dog to resent you. Quite the opposite. He is learning boundaries, rules and good manners which will only benefit him in life.

 

I also don't believe in hitting or kicking my dog but I won't try to dance out of their way if they are interfering with my walking. And I don't feel the least bit bad if I accidentally step on a toe or two because they think it's a laugh riot to grab my feet. And when Quinn would do hit and run nips on my shin as a puppy, I was beyond fine with grabbing him and talking in a very ugly voice about the bruises he was leaving. He quickly learned I was no fun at all when he tried that particular game but I still had my uses in other ways.

 

As I said, I'm probably just being grumpy but Quinn still seems to like hanging around me.

[Lenajo]

What's the big deal if his feelings get hurt? I *want* his feelings hurt. He'll get over it. Nobody has suggested splitting his skull open with a roundhouse karate kick, but I don't think a good rattle to the jaw is going to kill him. As was pointed out, simply not getting out of his way (and I'll add to that making sure his teeth impact the hard part of your shoe) can be quite pointed. Add to that a good sound swearing, some seriously pissed body language...habits can change.

 

Lets put this in proportion. If he does this to you, it's a bad game. If he does this to the elderly person in your family that doesn't know the game what's going to happen? the litagatious neighbor's kid? How strong would you be on prevention if it meant preventing a "bite report" or a lawsuit?

[urge to herd]

I agree with other posters that you need to take a more serious approach. Your dog isn't mean, he's not trained in basic manners. I once saw an older lady at a dog park knocked down by a medium sized dog who jumped on her. She wasn't hurt, thank goodness, but could easily have been.

 

It will take a fair amount of consistent responses on your part. If he bites at your feet when you're in the yard, start wearing hard soled shoes and let him get knocked. Don't let him even start to nip at your girl friend's feet. Part of the problem is that he's getting mixed messages - sometimes unpleasant things happen to him when he nips at feet, but a lot of the time he gets away with it. It's self reinforcing and you've got to be smarter and more determined than he is.

 

None of the above posters are advocating anything like cruelty. At 3 yrs of age, your boy needs to learn some self control, and it's your job to teach him. You need to work on the jumping up on people, as well. He's not an ornery little cuss, he doesn't know how to behave because you haven't been consistent and clear.

 

From your descriptions, this dog is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If your boy knocks some one down and hurts them, it's way beyond annoying, it's dangerous. If your dog nips someone, he could lose his life. Please take this seriously. Work with a trainer if you feel you need some help and structure. Learn how to teach your dog what is and is NOT acceptable. It's not funny, it's not annoying, it's dangerous.

 

Good luck, please let us know how you get on.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[bcnewe2]

I stop it before it happens. If Dew looked like she was going at my feet or anyone elses feet she got a quick harsh "HEY YOU" the tone implied that I did not approve of what she was thinking. Same with jumping up on others. We sorta like the huggs she gives DH and I so we kinda let things get a bit out of hand so if it's someone else I let her know on the way up to the person that jumping up right now isn't allowed with just a warning tone to "settle". One of my mentors and good friends say's that I leave grey areas for them to make mistakes, but it's what works for us so that's what we do.

 

She's now started coming up for a hug and turns herself around so that her back not her feet are touching you. Because she knows we don't like feet on us. She's also fallen over onto her head because someone backed away from her instead of letting her lean into them. It was rather funny but she didn't think so. I think she was embarassed.

 

Her jumping or running up to meet me trick is to jump up almost as high as my face about 3 feet away from me but not touching. OK, acceptable to us so again, it's working. Sometimes I put my hand out so she has a target to jump up to but she doesn't bite, because she already knows that's not good.

 

I think you have to let them know what your "I mean it voice" means. Then you can use it in a variety of situations that they might not have been in yet. Comunicating in a manner that thay learn to understand takes consistancy. *edited* something that we did when she was really little, never took hitting or pysical contact just interaction or not on our part. Like a kid learns what is acceptable to "get away" with or that conquences would follow that voice if they continued doing the action. *end edit*

If all else failed I'd probably make sure my foot met them quicker than they expected so it wouldn't be fun to bite my foot. Not kicking them but letting them run into my foot....hard.

 

I don't think it's being grumpy that they know if I correct them. I think it means they learn to take directions or corrections from me which makes a much better life for all of us.

 

Kristen