lakbc Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Hey All, You are all going to be shocked and furious when I tell you what has happened to one of my border collie females. My sons neighbor came up to his house and killed her why she was in her pen, shot her right between the eyes with a 9 mm pistol. We are bringing charges against him for killing her and my granddaughters golden retriever. But we are trying to get more charges, which right now they are going to charge him with trespassing and animal abuse, But if we can find out what a finished female border collie is worth we should be able to get him for a class D felony, ( the animal abuse is only a misdeamor unless it is considered torture). She worked cattle and horses until we got rid of all our cattle and then we gave her to our son for protection for his daughter and for someone to play with because she was a only child for 7 years. She is about 71/2 year old , catches, fetchs, and jumps on the trampoline with my granddaughter, which I dont like her to do but she loved it. She is not registered but she is a purebred we just didnt want the papers because we were not going to raise pups or do competition with her. We just got her to work for us. So if anyone could help me with this I would greatly appreciate it because everyone is so heart broken over this. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I don't know the answer to your cost question, but let me say that is an absolutely horrifying story and I am sorry for the dog and your family. I hope you are able to get some justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 My LORD. In determining the worth of a dog, you need to basically see what she could have been sold for. There is depreciation, but I am not sure that applies. There is an attorney in Colorado that only does dog cases- look up attorneys/dogs, and see what you find. Don't forget you can sue him civily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 That's horrible! Animal abuse charges are WAY too leaniant IMO(especially in this case ). I would try calling the attourny in CO. Good luck and I hope the guy get exactly what he deserves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxgloveBC Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I wish I was a judge.... that guy wouldnt be getting out for a LONG time if it was up to me.... UGH I cant stand people! I am so sorry that you are having to go through such a terrible ordeal. God bless you all and I hope that karma bites him in the butt BIG TIME over this! ETA: I havent done any herding whatsoever so I wouldnt base anything totally off of what I am saying, but when I was looking at getting a BC I also was looking at some dogs that were already started and such. I know one person said that a STARTED dog would have been $1200 from her. I dont know what other people would charge, but I do know that that was for a young started dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcollie Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 That is a terrible story! Now I know why I like not having neighbors within 2 miles. As to price for a working cowdog, you could go to the Red Bluff Bull Sale working dog results at http://www.redbluffbullsale.com/Files/2008...G%20RESULTS.pdf . The top selling dog went for $16,300 and the average was $4513 and these dogs do not have to be registered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc friend Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 My deepest sympathies to you and your family on the loss of both dogs. I hope you talk to the D.A. about laying charges other than animal cruelty - such as trespassing, disturbing the peace, (discharging a firearm - if this is a crime in your area), etc. Yes, they're all minor charges but added together, at least the punishment does increase. There should also be consideration directed toward this young man's mental health - is he going to be future danger to people based on his behavior now towards animals - and your D.A. can determine if they have enough to ask for a pysch hold/exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthBelle Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Holy smokes, what a terrible thing to happen. I'm with BC friend about trying to get other charges layed on that bozo. Around here there's big trouble if you discharge a weapon within city limits or too close to homes (don't remember how many feet it is). This guy must have traveled on sidewalk or road to get to your home/yard/pen unless he went cross country. How about gun permits, carrying a concealed weapon or a whole slew of other gun related charges? I would also be worried about this guy's mental state and the possiblity of future problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbirdie Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Every time something like this happens it just sickens me! The only way to change laws and get harsher punishments is to make people aware. I would get it into the news and then gather a couple of media links and send it to http://www.pet-abuse.com/ Whatever publicity you can get can only increase pressure on the authorities so that they take it seriously. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 What was the reason for the guy coming up there and doing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakbc Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 The guy that shot the dogs said the bc jumped out of her pen attacked him and his little girl he shot her and then she went home and jumped back into her pen and he was being humane and put her out of her misery so he shot her again and she jumped back out of her pen and died in the ditch. The evidence showed that the dog never got out of her pen she was just shot the one time in the head. We are trying to get more charges against him for it that is why I am trying to find out what a finished dog would cost because if it is over 1000 it is a class D felony trespassing and destroying private property. We are also pursuing civil charges against him for this. My granddaughter missed 3 days of school and they are taking her to a psychologist tomorrow because she is so upset over it. This bc never showed an aggressive side at all, she was more likely to lick you to death, it was a standing joke that she would invite them into the house and show them where everything was kept. The same with golden retriever. This is really helping me alot to talk to you guys about it because it was so horrific that it is hard to except that she is gone. She was such a sweet dog. I wish I had a picture to post with her smiling at you, but my son has taken all the pictures for the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthBelle Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 The guy that shot the dogs said the bc jumped out of her pen attacked him and his little girl he shot her and then she went home and jumped back into her pen and he was being humane and put her out of her misery so he shot her again and she jumped back out of her pen and died in the ditch. The evidence showed that the dog never got out of her pen she was just shot the one time in the head So the guy and his daughter are attacked? (did he file a police report?). He shoots the dog the first time, but doesn't disable her so she can't run home and jump back into her pen. But he's going to be humane?, shoots her again, but doesn't disable her so she jumps the fence again. This guy sounds like a lying sack of bullpucky, unless there's more to the story. I sure hope the police are keeping an eye on this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 The guy that shot the dogs said the bc jumped out of her pen attacked him and his little girl he shot her and then she went home and jumped back into her pen and he was being humane and put her out of her misery so he shot her again and she jumped back out of her pen and died in the ditch. The evidence showed that the dog never got out of her pen she was just shot the one time in the head So the guy and his daughter are attacked? (did he file a police report?). He shoots the dog the first time, but doesn't disable her so she can't run home and jump back into her pen. But he's going to be humane?, shoots her again, but doesn't disable her so she jumps the fence again. This guy sounds like a lying sack of bullpucky, unless there's more to the story. I sure hope the police are keeping an eye on this guy. I suggest they move to a new neighborhood. Ridicolous story.Who cares the worth of the dog,its priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylite Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Oh my goodness. I am too stunned to say anything besides wow. That is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRhodes Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Terrible D: I sell young dogs just going to cattle (little or no commands) around $1000 depending on what kind of potential they show, started dogs $1-$2000, have yet to hold onto a dog to train long enough to call it totally 'finished'. I know of dogs that are higher and lower than my prices, part of it depends on the area of the country you're in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakbc Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Oh the sheriff department bought it hook line and sinker until we got the new evidence. My argument with sheriff department is the man who shot the dogs works for the federal government as a correction officer and you have to be a sharp shooter to work there. My son (who works with him) said that he scored the maximum you could score on the shooting, so how did he supposely miss her the first time, that was what I was trying to tell the sheriff deputies that night. The psychologist told my son and his wife to have their daughter draw pictures of the dogs and put them in helium filled ballons and let them go so maybe she could let that night go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakbc Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Terrible D:I sell young dogs just going to cattle (little or no commands) around $1000 depending on what kind of potential they show, started dogs $1-$2000, have yet to hold onto a dog to train long enough to call it totally 'finished'. I know of dogs that are higher and lower than my prices, part of it depends on the area of the country you're in. Dear Nicole Thanks for the information I went to your web site to print out you price list and nothing was priced. You will not be involved in anyway we just need different prices to show proscuting attorney. I trained her myself and I could drop her and make her go where I wanted all on hand signals or my voice she really was a waste after we got rid of our cattle but didnt want to get rid of her and she was a lot of entertainment for my granddaughters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 What an awful story. Do a web search for started stock dogs. You'll get lots of places and prices. A started dog is generally in the thousand dollar range. A fair amount of training, pushing $2,000. At 7 she would have just been past her prime, but not by much. Does your son have any other character-witness neighbors that would speak on the dogs behalves? ie, they had never gotten out of the kennel, or never been aggressive, etc. I was lucky to have such neighbors when new neighbors cleared the lot next to me and called the county about my dogs. (and my livestock) I had to get a conditional useage permit ($500) in order to get my kennel lisence, and since I had a "complaint" I had to go to a public hearing and a board of sups. meeting. It was a true blessing to have my other neighbor's come to the meetings and have nothing but great stuff to say about my dogs and how they were housed and cared for. And any pictures or videos. They like that kind of stuff. I sure hope there is some kind of justice for you!! I simply cannot imagine!! Ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 He killed the Golden too right??? What was his answer for that one??? Did the dogs do anything to just "annoy" him when they were left alone??? Something just doesn't sound right about this situation and this guy if that is all he can come up w/. I'm sorry to hear that your granddaughter is going through all of this...sometimes its hard for kids to understand....well, in this case its hard for grownups to understand. I hope you win your case to be able to get something done about this guy. He sounds like he's one of the kind of people that you just don't give a firearm too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 OK you say he's a Federal Employee??? Who does he work for??? See if you can find out and PLEASE DO EVERY ARMED FEDERAL OFFICER a HUGE Favor and REPORT and FILE a complaint. If he used a government issued weapon, and the shooting was not reported to his supervisor and up the chain, THIS OL' BOY IS IN A HEAP OF TROUBLE !!! ... everything from 'irresponsible conduct' to 'misuse of a weapon'... Regardless of which Agency he works for CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSMAN . Trust me that'll get things moving in your favor!!!!! There are alls kinds of regs that apply to conduct of Fed. employees OFF-DUTY as well as on-duty. Armed officers are held to a higher standard than the general public.... You would do well to take this federal... His story isn't flying with me and definitely not both dogs. Tara M. US CUSTOMS and BORDER PROTECTION K9- Narcotics and yes, armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthBelle Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 My son (who works with him Yikes, a coworker yet????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Dang I overlooked that!!! Is your son filing on this guy? Everything I mentioned still holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakbc Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 OK you say he's a Federal Employee??? Who does he work for??? See if you can find out and PLEASE DO EVERY ARMED FEDERAL OFFICER a HUGE Favor and REPORT and FILE a complaint. If he used a government issued weapon, and the shooting was not reported to his supervisor and up the chain, THIS OL' BOY IS IN A HEAP OF TROUBLE !!! ... everything from 'irresponsible conduct' to 'misuse of a weapon'... Regardless of which Agency he works for CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSMAN . Trust me that'll get things moving in your favor!!!!! There are alls kinds of regs that apply to conduct of Fed. employees OFF-DUTY as well as on-duty. Armed officers are held to a higher standard than the general public.... You would do well to take this federal... His story isn't flying with me and definitely not both dogs. Tara M. US CUSTOMS and BORDER PROTECTION K9- Narcotics and yes, armed. He works for the federal medical center in springfield missouri as a correction officer. I dont know if he has reported it but my son has reported what has happened. According to my son they are waiting to see what charges are brought against him and his sentence before they can do anything about it. I dont know anything about that stuff, I just know right now as far as work is concerned my son was asked that if he went to the media about it to please not go on tv himself, but if he had too they would understand, and try to keep fed med out of the picture as long as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackieandryan Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I suggest they move to a new neighborhood. Ridicolous story.Who cares the worth of the dog,its priceless. Not everyone can up and move in a heartbeat Errol. Who cares what a dog is worth? Obviously it could be a huge factor in this case for sentencing purposes. I hope he sees prison time. I hated reading this and I am truly sorry for you, but please keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickim Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Probably all of us here see our dogs as much more than a pet and are more like companions to us. However, in the eyes of the court, dogs are property. Those that are in the business of training/breeding dogs likely see them as a bit more than simple companions, but then again, the good ones (don't get me started on puppy mills) don't do it for money, they do it for the love of the breed. But the court, while not always heartless, must have something to work with that has nothing to do with sentiment. I'm glad a fed employee was able to chime in on this thread. I'm not sure that fed employees can keep their jobs if they have a felony conviction, but I don't really care in this case. This man was clearly wrong. I would notify every single televison, newspaper and radio station in the area (and if have any station that tends to sensationalize just a wee bit, be sure to contact them). Lots and lots of media attention. Notify animal protection groups-they have contacts and may be able to help. If it would not jeopardize the job, I would appear on television as well. I would also file a PPO against the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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