Lost me Temper...

[SincereArtisan]

Argh. Ever lost your temper? Well it happened to me.

 

So, Rune and I were at the park today...and it was gorgeous outside! Just perfect. We were playing nice with the dogs at the top of the hill, but Rune seemed to be getting too rowdy with the pups so I decided we take off for the bottom of the hill where some older dogs were playing.

 

I take off, call Rune, and she bolts down ahead of me. I arrive on scene as a large english sheepdog is barking consistantly over Rune, who is cowered on the ground. (She doesn't quite get it when other dogs loom over her barking, or enjoy it...can't say I blame her.)

 

So, first, I try calling her to me. Her recall is excellent, so she kind of slinks over to me, trying to avoid the big barking dog, who continues to bark and loom over her. At this point some pointer mix of sorts starts running her over, mouthing her, lunging at her either trying to intimidate her or get her to play--I don't know.

 

I put myself between the barking dog and Rune, grab the collar of the lunging dog and pull it back, and try to wedge myself in to gather up my dog. No can do, the lunging dog wont let up, she keeps going for her. It took a couple tries to get the dog back and Rune into my arms, cradled and held up away from the other two. I don't know where the owner was--No, I take that back, I know the owner was behind me some ways because all they did was call their dogs name again and again and again....

 

Anyway, deciding that this is not a very good group of dogs to be playing with, I turn to go...walk about thirty feet away, look over my shoulder at the dogs who seem to be distracted, and set my dog down so she can walk. Both dogs who were previously tormenting Rune make a Beeline for her. Rune bolts about 15ft, then cowers as she is bowled over by the lunging dog.

 

The next thing I know, Rune is yelping, the dog wont get off, ther are snarls, the damned sheepdog is barking over them both, and Rune's yelps escalate to screaming. I rush in, grab the dog who refuses to let in as Rune is screaming, and haul back on the collar while yelling "HEYHEYHEY! Stop!" At this point the owner finally decides to rush in. I take one look at her, said "Here!" and hand her the dog by pulling it to her. I elbow my way past the sheepdog, heft up Rune, and walk her the rest of the way up the hill, in my arms, just fuming the whole time...

 

I felt guilty on the drive home. Rune has a cut at the corner of her eye, and a mark on the top of her head, but is otherwise fine.

 

To me, it was rude for the owner of the instigating dog to not help take control of the situation as I was attempting to leave the area thefirst time. If my dog is in danger of being attacked, if there are unfriendly dogs about, or just one that my dog doesn't like, or doesn't like my dog, I leash up my dog and leave. Plain as that. I don't try and get angry at anyone, I don't wait for something awful to happen, I just take my dog and go. It would have been nice had her dog had even the slightest measure of recall, or if she'd come up in the first place to leash her dog, or hold it until I walked away. The owner of the sheepdog was simply sitting on the grass cooing "Its okay, It's oookay," as her dog barked and barked and barked...

 

Like I said, I feel bad for loosing my temper, and the rough handling of the dog. In light of the situation, I suppose it was necessary, to get the dog off of Rune as soon as possible and into the owners incapable hands so I could take my dog and go before she got seriously hurt.

[Lunar]

Yeah, that sucks. I think you did right, manhandling the dogs and all - you did what was necessary because the owner wasn't doing anything. I'm sorry Rune got bowled over and hurt a bit.

[Dixie_Girl]

Sarah, I think you were very kind to that dog! I would have done worse I'm afraid. That's why I don't go to dog parks. Well, if there were any around here. I'd get my Irish side up, then my Indian side would go on the war path, and people would hate me, children would cry when they seen me and dogs would cower. So, I think all in all you were more than fair with that dog and the SOB owner.

Hope Rune is okay. Physically and mentally. Poor lil nugget.

[SincereArtisan]

Whats funny, is afterwards some one asked me if I'd been there Sunday. I said no, and asked why...apparently some guy on a bike rode by and appeared to swerve to hit this dog, ran over it, and the owner ripped him off his bike and began pounding his helmeted head into the pavement. Egads!

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

Tess was attacked at a state park (leashes are required here at state parks) and the dog, I swear, growled and then was set free by its owner. I will swear that until the day I die. They stood around doing nothing while their dog attacked my dog. Tess is very submissive and did not fight back. This was at a very popular and very busy swimming area/beach. I screamed bloody murder and got everyone's attention and then screamed "I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY!!!" and then I started kicking the other dog. Dangerous and stupid, maybe, but it was CHEWING on my dog. I had pepper spray with me but it was at the bottom of my bag.

 

Amazingly, the owners came over at that time to get their dog. The guy picked it up by the hind legs and tried to carry it away but it would not let go of Tess. It was HORRIBLE. Tess had bites all over her, she was in pain. I felt so bad. I failed my dog.

 

Never again. I carry pepper spray and it is available in an instant, I take it with me everywhere. Any person or dog tries to mess with my dogs, they will be SO SORRY. I carry that citronella stuff first. I find that just saying, to the other dog owners nearby, that I have SPRAY, is very effective.

 

If it was me, I would not be sorry I lost my temper. I am still upset at myself that I did not do enough for Tess that day. Tess is now even more submissive around other dogs. At least she is not aggressive. I have met so many people with dogs who are aggressive and they always say "Well, he was fine until he was attacked..."

 

I am still angry about that. The guy came over and said "I've never seen him do that before..." and it was such a lie, I could see it in his face.

 

When I go to the parks here, I only go to the beach very early or on rainy days, and when I go to the park with the trails, we only go out on the trails (lots of room to escape for my dogs) and never go into the grassy ballplaying area. People always give me funny looks but the few times I've been in that part I can't get my dogs OUT because they get mobbed.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[fooshuman]

S.A. That sucks! I always say you can tell alot about a person by the way their dog acts! Poor lil Rune, she doesn't deserve to be treated like that. You did good in my book S.A., personally i probably would have cleaned the owners clock! (Yep i'd be in jail fuming over the injustice!)

 

Tess wrote;

and then I started kicking the other dog. Dangerous and stupid, maybe, but it was CHEWING on my dog.

Because of my size i fear no dog. (singular dog, more then one would get my pulse a pounding)I have stepped in front of more then one charging dog, & have reached down and physically seperated 2 dogs fighting. (Just tonight i had to get inbetween Hope and Zag!)

 

It is funny to see how we forget our own safty for our dogs! I swear i would burn alive to save them! I don't think what you did was stupid. Dangerous yes, but as an alpha sometimes you need to place yourself in danger to protect your pack.

[MrSnappy]

I am quite willing, with no guilt whatsoever, to kick the snot out of any dog that is trying to kill one of mine., In particular we reference BANNER the border collie X cattle dog that has twice now bitten my Red Dog unprovoked (and I hope his owners read this board!). Once in the face, when RD was on a leash, and Banner was not, of course, and once he put $400.00 worth of hole in him when RD was standing still with his back to Banner saying hello to a (human) friend.

 

He almost got Piper once too, but Piper is FAST. He got a boot for that one and would have gotten more, except he is also fast (faster than me anyway).

 

I've told both of Banner's caregivers that the next time Banner comes for one of my dogs I am going to break one of his legs if that will keep him out of commission for a while and off and out of my bloody dogs. And if I get any flack from either of them, they might be in casts too! I have NO patience for seriously aggressive dogs whose owners do not take responsibility for their animals.

 

RD is "dog aggressive" but has not been in any kind of fight for a million years because I exercise control over my dog. I do not bring my dogs to dog parks and in the rare event I do, we change locations or leave the moment my dogs get harassed by any dog. I will do whatever it takes to keep a dog from injuring my dog and I feel no guilt whatsoever about protecting my companions any way I have to.

 

You shouldn't either.

 

RDM

[Maralynn]

I think you held your temper quite well. I have came to believe that 80% of dog owners are clueless when it comes to controling their dog.

 

What bugs me is owners with the "he just wants to be friends" mentality. My dog does NOT want to be friends with a hyper in-your-face dog, in fact those type of dogs overwhelm her. She will growl and snap at them when they try to tackle her and then I will be told that I have an agressive dog. She would prefer to be left alone thank-you-very-much.

[Joe Anne]

Sarah..I think you showed amazing restraint. I am sorry your little one was tormented like that while just wanting to enjoy the day and play. I hate stupid people!!

It really is amazing what we will do to protect our best friends. My stupidest act was standing in front of a drunken off duty cop, who pulled a gun out and pointed it at my dog. Bruno was on the top of a hill (at night) and I was on the bottom. The 2 guys got out of their car and were getting a bit too close to me for Bruno's comfort I guess. Bruno ran down the hill towards them, and startled them, that's all he did. I turned to stop him and he ran right past me and when I turned around the one drunk had pulled out a gun a said, I shoot that d--- dog, I ran over and stood in front of my dog and said you'll have to go through me first!! The other guy grabbed his friend and they left. We proceeded to go in to our apartment building, we lived on the 2nd floor, up 3 flights of steps, and sure nough they were on the steps and were blocking me and my dog from going to our apt. Of course Bruno went ape s--- at this point, I held on to him barely (all 90 lbs. and I weighed maybe 120). Luckily a neighbor came out of his apt and yelled at the 2 guys to let us get by. He happened to be an off duty guard, and I guess that was enough, and the drunks left, again!

In retrospect, yeah.. it was stupid, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. My dog was willing to put his life in front of mine and I never thought twice 'bout doing the same thing.

I agree with Mr. Snappy! In the face of danger to those I love... I act and ask questions later!

:mad:

[Catu]

In situations like that I imagine myself as a wolf mother with her cub. Is not just my right, but my duty to do wathsoever is necesary to protect my dogs. Not too much time ago I had to hit a young female pitbull who atacked my dog with absolutely any provocation, that time I had picked a PVC tube I found on the park thinking in doing some bricolage with it, but resulted to be very useful with the PBT. I'm not a bit ashamed to say I broke it on the head of the bitch.

 

I rarely think twice about separating dogs or handling strange dogs. I'm not a big person, but few years ago I worked with GSD and rottweilers trained in protection and it results natural to me. Dogs seems to perceive I'm not nervous and usually just stand between my dog and the bothering one with a defiant attitud is enough to discourage most of them.

[Beth G]

You sound like me. I'm not very big either or tall but they back off from me too when I wade in there. Either my attitude, my temper or my facial exspression. Not sure which...

[Falcon]

You did the right thing, don't ever regret doing the right thing. Rune was in trouble, and you eliminated the problem to the best of your ability.

Citronella spray is a good recommendation though, for unforseen trouble like this. There is a dog down the street who will attack any and every dog he sees walking down the street (and chases both bicyclists & cars), but his owners still let him run free. He went after my grandmother's old dog, when I was dogsitting her, and I picked her up and pretty much ran (this dog has got to be at least 90 pounds, and I'm only 101 myself). Had to do the same with my other grandmother's dog when she came for a visit. Finally had to intervene in an all-out dogfight when he attacked our golden, so I grabbed my golden's leash and started whipping the neighbor's dog as hard as I could until he backed off. Neighbor, as always, just stood up by his house and mucked about with his car.

I don't regret hurting that dog to back him off, and if he ever goes after my baby bc, he's going to get a full out citronella spray to the face and a caning until he goes away.

 

Originally posted by Maralynn:

I think you held your temper quite well. I have came to believe that 80% of dog owners are clueless when it comes to controling their dog.

I think probably 80% of dog owners don't know ANYTHING about dogs. :/

Last time I went to the vet's office there was another young BC there, and his owner first words to me were "Oh! Did you get him at Panhandle Pet Supply too?" I didn't know they were selling BCs at this particular store, but I were aware that they had a sign out front saying that they 'buy puppies', and had several breeds for sale. *sigh*

 

There were two other dogs in my puppy class (one was a 2 year old, apparently the lady didn't read the class name) recently. I and the other puppy's mom were discussing how our boys were both going to be neutered soon, and the 2 year old's mom says to me "Aw, you aren't going to let Diocese be a daddy? Winston has been a daddy twice already!" This same dog of hers is also fear-aggressive, but she is totally oblivious to it. He attacked the fox terrier several times, my BC once, and just about every other dog in the store.

 

I'm sure we all could go on and on and on about idiot dog owners (my own parents included), and I'm afraid that they, imo, are the huge majority. I just pray that somehow responsible dog owners around the world can show people how you are supposed to treat this animal who is doing his best to be your best friend.

[RaisingRiver]

River, like Rune lays submissive under other dogs.

 

I always end up picking up River and walking away. One time the overbearing dog kept following us as we walked and the owners totally ignored us. I ended up carrying 32lb River for like 5 mins before the dog was distracted enough to go after something else. UGH.

 

But yah, most people just call and call and call their dogs names to NO avail. I'm always at the ready to pick up my dog and retreat - fortunately, she's small enough and my big dog is never challenged.

[Shezrie]

You definately did the right thing. Though I would have had it out with the owner big time. Nothing drives me more crazy when people don't have control over their dog, "oh, he's friendly he just wants to play" they say as their dog is trying to rip a piece out of my Sky.

My mother's BC is terrified of other dogs and used to streak away when approached, but I found that if I get him to lie down when another dog comes near he's okay and the other dogs back off and leave. I guess a lying down dog presents no threat. I've taken to doing this with my own BC Sky and it works like a charm. I just hand signal him to drop down, he's secure in knowing what to do and approaching dogs lose interest very quickly. Of course I find myself explaining to people that even though their dogs may be friendly I have to be consistant and do it no matter what the approaching dog is like.

Sky- My lad Sky Sky again

[Aronomy]

Originally posted by Shezrie:

My mother's BC is terrified of other dogs and used to streak away when approached, but I found that if I get him to lie down when another dog comes near he's okay and the other dogs back off and leave. I guess a lying down dog presents no threat. I've taken to doing this with my own BC Sky and it works like a charm. I just hand signal him to drop down, he's secure in knowing what to do and approaching dogs lose interest very quickly. Of course I find myself explaining to people that even though their dogs may be friendly I have to be consistant and do it no matter what the approaching dog is like.

I do the same thing with Aronomy, my dog, and now whenever he sees a dog approaching, he automatically lays down. It's great, although I find he stares them down a bit, which might be taken as threatening by other dogs, I don't know. But nothing bad has ever happened between my dog and other dogs.

[Heppers]

Is it just me or does anyone else think that other dogs seem to home in on collies and go for them?? My sisters collie must have a sign on her head that reads "attack me" to other dogs cos she often gets jumped on by other dogs and my sister has had to kick them off her many times. I am really starting to think its a collie thing after reading all of these posts !!

[kelpiegirl]

Rune:

You have nothing to feel any regret about. You did what you should have, and with admittedly much more restraint than I probably would have had! I don't like loose dogs for this reason- their owners.

Julie

[flrpwr52]

My kids are grown and now my dogs are my kids so I would do anything to keep them safe as I would for my human kids.

 

I wouldn't let a another child beat up my child so why would I let another dog attack my dog?

 

You did the right thing to protect your furry child.

[r b m]

It's interesting to read everyone's posts about this. Sienna too kind of gets "picked on" at the park. I see it being just like fellow students picking on the smart kid in school. Herding breeds, especially bc's, have a different disposition than other dogs, especially when they are super concentrated. I think this sends the wrong signal to other dogs, especailly those who feel they are dominating the park. They bark, chase or buck up to other dogs trying to get them to knock if off and be like the rest of the pack. As a fear-based reation, a fight can follow. From my experience, border collies in general don't really like to play with strange dogs(except other border collies). They'd much rather be with their owner in the corner of some field, playing frisbee. And around here, the bc owners are always off doing their own thing.

 

Sorry you had to go through that.. you did the right thing!

[SincereArtisan]

Well thanks, guys. I feel better!

 

I love going to off-leash dog parks, where my dog can socialize with other dogs. She gets the best exercise there, and in most ways its good for her.

 

I do believe there is a certain way your dog should behave before you bring them there, however. They should have excellent recall, a firm handle on the command 'leave it!' and an owner who can recognize when their dog is not behaving as it should.

 

But in some cases, thats asking a bit much. Still, the park has plenty of dog-knowledgeable people about, enough to keep me going back, and I've made some awesome friends through the park community. Incidents like yesterdays typically do not occur all that frequently--at least not to that degree. Every once in a while you have a small squabble over who owns a ball, or a dog who wont quit humping, and those are things dogs can usually pan out themselves with little fuss.

 

Our new park has less dogs about, but its a much larger, dog-friendly atmosphere. I'm looking forward to spending the majority of my time there.

[painted_ponies]

My BC terrifies other dogs. :confused: I think it's because when other dogs appear she stares and either drops into a down (if they're moving towards her) or crouches and pursues if they're going the other direction.

 

I reckon we wouldn't be very popular at the dog park - but like DixieGirl, we don't have such things so it doesn't matter.

 

Anyway, SA, I agree you showed remarkable restraint. I used to show chows, and you wouldn't believe the things chow handlers sometimes must resort to in order to break up dogfights. But it has to be done - often singlehandedly as you discovered, since 90% of owners are too chicken to get in the middle of things.

[Willikers]

Sigh...If you ever want to waste your breath, just ask someone to call their dog. If it wasn't usually a borderline serious situation, it would be funny. I never ever ask people to call their dog. I TELL them to COME GET THEIR DOG. It is very clear and the majority of fools will actually reflexively trundle over and make an effort.

[Shezrie]

From my experience, border collies in general don't really like to play with strange dogs(except other border collies). They'd much rather be with their owner in the corner of some field, playing frisbee. And around here, the bc owners are always off doing their own thing.

My mother's border collie Zachary will not go near any other dog unless it is another border collie.

I'd rather be able to take my dog out and not be harrassed at all by other dogs who's owners are unable to control them.

Stupidest response I ever got from someone who's uncontrolled dog ran up and leaped up at me leaving muddy prints on my jeans. "Well, you shouldn't have worn clean jeans to the park." :confused:

[Jen C]

I have to agree that you not only did the right thing - you also showed remarkable restraint!!

 

Our trainer/boarder came to get Wes about a month ago and his arm was all bandaged - we asked what had happened and he told us that his GSD pup (about 8 mo. old) was with him, on leash in a human park (leash laws apply) and a huge mix, he didn't say of what, charged his dog and attacked. The other dog had gotten away from an owner who couldn't control him and was attacking his dog. He yelled for the owner who was just standing there screeching, as he went in to get the other dog off his dog... he was badly bitten by the other dog. He is VERY dog savvy and he said that he was convinced this dog would have killed his puppy... He said he beat that dog off pretty badly, despite his injuries, as it was the only way to get him to get off his pup. Thankfully his pup is ok and has not been emotionally scarred - he still likes other dogs (good thing since his dad is a trainer who often boards his clients when owners are away)...

 

It is just SO scary when people have NO control over their dogs... Wesley generally gets along well with dogs and we try to get the the dog park several times a week - BUT - Wes can be pushy, so I have to be very responsible and watch like a hawk. If he is making another dog uncomfortable, it is MY JOB to make him knock it off or remove him. 90% of the time he plays great and the other 10% it is MY JOB to make sure we leave, before he crosses the line - period. Now, of course there is the occasional squabble, but, if the owners are aware and on the ball, it is usually over in seconds and no one is hurt... It makes me so sad to hear that poor Rune had to suffer because of another OWNER'S idiocy - I mean really, get control of your dog...

 

Again - you showed great restraint and you did the right thing - you protected your baby as best you could... That's all of our jobs!

[Bordercentrics]

I've never had any fights, but I have had enough close calls that I always carry pepper spray in the same "dog walk bag" that holds my pickup bags.

 

I did use the pepper spray once when a Rottweiler with the hackles up on his back trotted toward my dog. A whiff of pepper spray caused him to rethink his approach and to decide to trot away from us.