Seizures, epilepsy and other behaviors

[BC Wild Child]

My apparently healthy BC Tux started having tonic-clonic seizures this year at 7 years of age. Done lots of testing and by process of rule out, primary epilepsy.

 

So thinking about him over the years has got me to wondering about some things now.

 

He is one the 'busy' dogs; doesn't really know how to turn off. He is from working lines and even though rarely gets to herd, he has jobs; agility, therapy work, etc. I have seen several other BC's like him; always need to be doing something, can be a handful at agility trials etc.

 

He has noise phobias, though desensitization and clicker training have helped over the years.

 

Also has a behavior that would probably be labeled as OCD; scuffs dirt. He will scratch a piece of dirt/grass with a front foot and then pounce where that lands and do it all over again. He has a littermate sister that does the same thing but with her nose.

 

Not lots of socialization as a pup, thus we had some fear issues to deal with as well when I got him at 10 months of age.

 

He is enrolled in the K 9 Behavioral Genetics project and I am getting ready to do the additional blood sample for further gene testing.

 

 

So - those of you that have or have had BCs with seizures/epilepsy, have you noticed other problems with thems as well? I am thinking more in terms of abnormal behaviors, not medical problems. Could this all be related? If the dog already has a genetic predisposition for epi, could these other abnormalities eventually push them over the edge?

 

Liz D

 

 

 

Once I figure out how to upload a photo, will post a picture of him.

[Wendy V]

So - those of you that have or have had BCs with seizures/epilepsy, have you noticed other problems with thems as well?

 

 

No, my epi-dog started seizing at the age of 6.5, but prior to that, had earned the nick-name of "Steady Ellie" due to her unflappaple demeanor. She was (still is) an absolute joy to live with. She had developed severe noise sensitivity with the introduction of AEDs, and it has remained with her even after the cessation of drug treatment. Since she seems to have recovered from seizure activity (4 years seizure-free), I consider her case to be "secondary" epilepsy. I do know of two "inheritable" cases of epilepsy in border collies, and both were crazy as loons; OCD to a fault. Frankly, not enough data to draw any conclusions.

[mayaelena]

My former BC, Maya, started seizing at 2.5 years old. She had to put put to sleep in September, she was 4.5 years old. She was an indoor dog. She was "busy," especially when it came to playing ball but but I can't say she had obsessive behaviors. She was diagnosed with Epilepsy. Of course we asked the vet why she came down with it a few months shy of her 3rd birthday and not at birth. He said there is no explanation as to why some dogs come down with it. They checked for head trauma, liver and organ malfunctions and after almost $1000 in testing, not one physical problem was found to be causing the seizures. I wish there was an explanation....Epilepsy/seizures are a horrible experience for both owner and pet. Good luck!

 

 

MayaElena

[agentm]

[see my post Epilepsy BC. We put Cara to sleep last September- Idiopathic epilepsy. She had a compulsive desire to play ball constantly... it seems most BC do. At age 1.5 we noticed one pupil was dialated and took her in. She behaved normally but it seemed her eye was wired backwards. We took her to a specialist in canine eye problems and miraculously it fixed itself. I asked about a stroke possibility but the vets dismissed this since she had no symptoms. They thought it might be pharmacutical but my other dogs were fine and there is nothing new in the environment and we don't medicine or drugs for anything. Latter when she started seizures we immediately asked about the stroke possibility. Her MRI did not show any evidence of stroke.

 

The main behavior difference we saw was agression towards other animals which hadn't been there her first two years. She was always a very gentle disposition and got along fine with the other dogs. They would some times run to her aid and attempt to hold her up when she had a petite mal seizure. She would let them. Later on she would for no apparent reason attack the other dogs even when they were laying down doing nothing. When this happened I would interceed quickly because she had drawn blood on one occassion. She never bit me but I knew we were probably a few hours from a Grand Mal seizure. This behavior the vets attributed to the epilepsy. As her seizures grew more frequent so did the attacks--- it got bad enough that I had an airhorn noisemaker close by to freeze her for a second so I could get there to prevent the fight. Being a smart Border Collie she later ignored the horn.. but I could tell by the look. She was never agressive to people and had never bitten anyone... she was very gentle and friendly. Her last cluster of seizures before we put her to sleep she didn't know who I was and as I approached her while she was coming off a grand mal she gave me a look I will never forget-- I though she was going to attack me-- I kept talking to her and she let me approach so I could lift her and take her to the car for the ride to the animal hospital. I knew then that her seizures had progressed to a point that we had no choice. She kept having seizures and our decision was made. The dog we put to sleep was not the dog we cherished her first 2.5 yrs. Our vet said that epilepsy that severe causes brain damage and what we saw was the result of her rapidly deteriorating condition. By the way she was resistant to the normal medications.

 

I wish you the best of luck!!! Severe epilepsy in dogs is a monstrous disease.

[Liz P]

The only behavioral issue I know of that is linked to epilepsy is aggression. But not all epileptic dogs are aggressive.

[Rosanne]

I know several people with epileptic dogs. None of their dogs are any more or less "OCD-like" than any of the other border collies I know.

I don't know ANY dogs that have seized for a reason other than it being idiopathic, which is to say, genetic.

 

Unfortunately there is such an array of lovely excuses for it that breeders often ignore it, or use wonderful excuses or phony research to provide them reasons to keep breeding closely related dogs. To me, epilepsy is the number ONE worst genetic problem I'd ever have in a dog. I would much rather risk hips, ears, eyes, etc. A dog that is dysplastic/deaf/blind can still live a happy, healthy life (excepting the very worst of each problem, but most dogs don't fall into those categories).

I wish people would be more open with problems in their own lines. I know lots of people who have dogs linebred on dogs with epileptic relatives, and they don't even know it!

 

Anyhow, behavior wise, I have definitely heard of instances where around seizure-activity, the dog loses some awareness of what's going on. We had an older dog (retriever) seize once in his old age (he was developing a brain tumor!), and afterward he was suddenly the happiest friendliest most clueless dog. He was wagging his tail and sniffing noses with our other male at the time, who he usually was busy trying to fight with. Seizures are odd brain activity, but I don't think the dog's behavior at times other than when they are about to or have just seized should be any indicator of whether they are/are not epileptic.

[KathyF]

My former BC, Maya, started seizing at 2.5 years old. She was diagnosed with Epilepsy. Of course we asked the vet why she came down with it a few months shy of her 3rd birthday and not at birth. He said there is no explanation as to why some dogs come down with it.

 

 

Typical onset for epilepsy is between the ages of 2 - 5.

 

Kathy

[Wendy V]

I don't know ANY dogs that have seized for a reason other than it being idiopathic, which is to say, genetic.

 

"Idiopathic" means that they just don't know the cause for seizures. It would be misleading to say that all dogs with epilepsy had inherited it. Seizures are caused by many, many things, which is why it is so hard to define and to treat successfully. Then there is the theory that ALL dogs have a theshold for seizure activity and that most operate below it. Causitive agents lower the seizure threshold and create seizure activity. In MY dog, I believe it was the combination of both, being that there was a genetic basis for a lowered seizure threshold and that some causitive agent allowed the seizure to express. If it was only genetic in orgin, I doubt that I would have had the success with remedying the condition that I have had.

[Laurae]

Sophie seized for reasons other than idiopathic epilepsy--and we suspect Craig has as well. When Sophie was two, while chasing a cat in the dark on a slippery deck, she ran right into the bow of a pointy wooden sea kayak and the impact dislodged her eye. About a year later, while at a herding lesson, the trainer threw her leash at her in an attempt to get her to widen out. Unfortunately, he forgot that she can't really see out of her left eye due to the kayak incident, and the heavy-duty clip caught her squarely in the face. She went into an immediate seizure on the field. It was the only seizure she has ever had, and it almost certainly took place as a direct result of the traumatic head injury she had sustained earlier.

 

Craig also has seizures. He has to see a veterinary ophthamologist regularly, and this vet is fairly certain that Craig had received a blow to the head, consistent with a kick by a horse or a cow, earlier in his life, and that his seizures are very likely the result of that trauma. (He has other neurological issues also consistent with this diagnosis.) Epilepsy does not run in Craig's lines.

[Rosanne]

"Idiopathic" means that they just don't know the cause for seizures. It would be misleading to say that all dogs with epilepsy had inherited it.

 

I just feel that too many people blame it on a mystery trauma that may or may not have ocurred, which they never saw themselves. I'm not advocating that every epileptic dog should have all his relatives s/n right away, but that it should be kept in mind, and I certainly do feel that a dog who seizes absolutely should not be bred. But most epilepsy sites will tell you, that "mystery" idiopathic epilepsy is probably genetic.

 

Laura, I certainly would not call Sophie epileptic. Craig would be a mystery; I've heard others say it was head trauma too, and then siblings and grand-children seized too and it clearly wasn't.

 

As far as low thresholds, this is an excuse I've heard from a high-volume breeder in regards to 2 of her dogs seizing. Apparently they weren't epileptic, they just had low seizure thresholds. That's the same thing, in my mind. If a line of dogs seems to have a low threshold for seizure activity, I sure wouldn't want one.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anybody. I'm just concerned about all the "other" reasons I see for dogs being epileptic these days. Genetics are a big part of it. I know quite a few epileptic pedigrees just as Liz P does, and often the same dogs appear behind the seizing ones.

[Laurae]

I'm definitely not trying to pick a fight! I just saw this

I don't know ANY dogs that have seized for a reason other than it being idiopathic, which is to say, genetic.

and thought I'd share my experiences. I don't know anything for sure about Craig, and I didn't mean to imply that I thought Sophie had epilespy (though the &*%# trainer sure tried to convince me of it after her seizure ).